[FooZe]

In another forum a member happened to share/ask...

Originally Posted by bpd2

... I'm trying to understand my own reaction when I read only "Why?" I started ignoring the posts. I don't assume acceptance anywhere, so when I hear only "why?" I feel like I am being asked to be "transparent" to another's gaze, while the other person remains "opaque" to me. The experience becomes anxiety--anxiety about being judged--or, perhaps, anxiety that I am talking about my experience whereas the other person is asking me to discuss a sort of meta-experience--as in "tell me why a person would have this feeling/reaction/whatever". Yes, I do assume we support each other in our efforts here, but I don't assume that I am accepted. It's not the forum that makes me feel that way, it's that I am that way....So, an "un-couched" (pun intended) "why?" works for me on an analytical, intellectual level. Perhaps it is that in a conversation, both people ask each other why, and both people disclose.

I found that the start of an interesting discussion that I wanted to continue, but I didn't want to take the original thread any farther off topic -- so I thought I'd continue here instead!

I was surprised how different bpd2's reaction to "why?" seems to be from mine. I don't seem to put much emphasis on who's being transparent or opaque, per se -- more on questions like:

• "What do I feel like sharing at this moment?"

• "If there's something I notice I feel like not sharing, what does that seem to be about?" It could be anything from "I don't want to get off the subject we're on," to "I'm pretty sure they're all set to get the wrong idea unless I introduce the subject differently," to "I don't trust what they're going to do with what I tell them."

• "If the other person seems to be trying extra hard to get me to tell them something, what could that be about?"

• "Does the other person seem to be going out of their way to appear especially 'opaque' or, for that matter, 'transparent' to me?" If so, what could that be about?

Above all, though, the question "Why?" seems to be a request to take my attention away from whatever I'm personally aware of -- where I'd rather focus, other things being equal -- and turn it toward making up reasons for something to impress and entertain whoever is asking. If I go along with the request, it promises to derail the conversation from our personal experience of something, to competing to make up the cleverest reasons "why" it has to be the way it is.

It also seems to me that once we start discussing "why" anything, there's no end in sight. Why did I start this thread? Because I didn't want to take the other one off topic. Why didn't I want to take the other one off topic? Because that would be disrespectful to the original poster. Why would it be disrespectful to the original poster? ... etc. By the time we were ready to stop, any answers we might settle on would probably be not even remotely relevant to the original question.

------------------------

Einstein was asked by his hostess at a social gathering to explain his theory of relativity. Said the great mathematician,

"Madam, I was once walking in the country on a hot day with a blind friend, and said that I would like a drink of milk."

"Milk?" said my friend, "Drink I know; but what is milk?"

"A white liquid," I replied.

"Liquid I know; but what is white?"

"The colour of a swan's feathers."

"Feathers I know; what is a swan?"

"A bird with a crooked neck."

"Neck I know; but what is this crooked?"

"Thereupon I lost patience. I seized his arm and straightened it. "That's straight," I said; and then I bent it at the elbow. "That's crooked."

"Ah!" said the blind man, "Now I know what you mean by milk!"

------------------------

I find that I usually get a much better handle on something after I admit that I don't know (and start looking for myself), than after any number of answers to "why" questions about it.

I've overheard conversations between little kids and their parents where the parent will explain something to the kid, the kid will ask "Why?", the parent will answer as best they can, and the kid will ask "Why?" I'm convinced that the parent and kid have learned that that's what they're each supposed to do to hold up their end of the conversation. If you're a little kid and your parent explains something to you, you're supposed to ask "why?" and give them a chance to answer some more -- or else they'll think you're ignoring them and wonder what's wrong.

[pachyderm]

Originally Posted by Fool Zero

Above all, though, the question "Why?" seems to be a request to take my attention away from whatever I'm personally aware of -- where I'd rather focus, other things being equal -- and turn it toward making up reasons for something to impress and entertain whoever is asking.

That can be the case, but not necessarily. A question "Why?" can be a genuine query to find out something, to understand something. It does not have to be treated as an invitation to justify something.

"Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar." Sometimes not. The two cases have to be treated differently.

[madisgram]

i agree with pachy.
asking "why" sometimes clarifies something for that person so they better understand as pachy stated. justme, but i sort of feel like this is like "splitting hairs". sometimes all of us overintellectulize what is. we all have our own way of searching for the truth. i believe it's as simple as that.

[purple_fins]

Above all, though, the question "Why?" seems to be a request to take my attention away from whatever I'm personally aware of -- where I'd rather focus, other things being equal -- and turn it toward making up reasons for something to impress and entertain whoever is asking.

maybe I'm not understanding this very well -- happens quite a bit with me. but--I've never thought of someone asking me "why" in this way, Fool Zero.... I find your thoughts interesting. and I also find it interesting how bpd finds that question too.-- of which another avenue I've never thought about-- being opaque vs transparent.

maybe it's the everlasting hope I seem to hold onto but I've usually(unless the person has shown me before they are mean and not to be trusted) looked at the question "why" as a term of endearment-- out of concern(could stem from not ever being listened to as a child enduring trauma and so I'm like a dehydrated pup just crawling out of the desert and there ahead, someone is next to a big bowl of clear water--to help me- to hear me, to have concern and interest in me) and the quest to better understand the person. Asking "why" is like a gift I've been given, not a situation of one being judged or in which one is being turned towards being fake and making up reasons so they can impress and entertain others. I'm so curious as to the roots of both of your thoughts on this, with much respect.

peace to all

fins

[Muser]

I think I agree with Purple Fins. I look at it as and invitation to continue....like if I told you something and you ask be "why" you are telling me you are interested in continuing.

If I were to start a thread by the single word "why" it would be (and this is just me) that I am hesitant about starting and looking for the "OK" to begin....as in telling me it is safe it open up....

[FooZe]

I figured everyone would probably react a little differently to being asked "why?" but I had no idea how differently -- and we've only heard from a few so far!

Where I notice I'm coming from is that I've gotten used to people asking me "why" I feel the way I do, or did something the way I did. If I come up with only a half***ed answer, they're going to proceed to tell me how I should feel or how I should have done it. If I manage to have my defense well prepared before they ask, I'll be able to shut them up till next time.

----------------------------------

Some years ago my then-housemate had bought a television set and set it up in our living room. One day I was home for a change (getting over a cold or something, I think) and watching TV, something I rarely did otherwise. The set, the antenna and the reception weren't all that great and it didn't take much to mess up the picture. Even passing trucks and airplanes, or where I stood in the room, seemed to affect it.

My housemate came home and opened the front door. The TV picture started "rolling". She saw it and froze in the doorway. The picture, of course, kept rolling.

"Why are you watching it like that?" she demanded.

I found myself without a suitable answer. I didn't think she was in the mood to listen to what I knew about TV reception issues. A day or two later she moved the TV into her bedroom -- to protect it from me, I was pretty sure.

----------------------------------

Of course not everyone does that, but I seem to take a PTSD-like attitude toward whoever I think might.

Originally Posted by pachyderm

A question "Why?" can be a genuine query to find out something, to understand something.

Something like, "Let's look at this together and see what's going on." That's how it often turns out for me, but:

-- It seems to work well only if we get to it casually, by mutual consent. When someone presses me (or vice-versa ) to "look at this together", I start preparing to hear, "look at this together my way so I can explain to you why your way is wrong."

-- The inquiry seems to stop when we settle on some explanation that we're willing to leave undisturbed. Although it could conceivably be the best possible explanation, more often we just agree to agree and move on. Each of us may still be entertaining some unanswered questions but we've had enough for the time being. If we went any further it wouldn't be so much fun and we might end up having to agree to disagree. I think finding out what we can agree is true, often gets in the way of looking at whatever else might be true for us.

Originally Posted by purple_fins

... I've usually(unless the person has shown me before they are mean and not to be trusted) looked at the question "why" as a term of endearment-- out of concern... and the quest to better understand the person. Asking "why" is like a gift I've been given...

Thanks, fins! I don't know that I've ever taken it that way. I associate concern with consequences that'll be "good for me" but that I may not like so well. Why did I keep clearing my throat (or whatever I was doing)? It may have been a reaction to pressure from my parents but I wasn't up to explaining that to them at the time. Whatever I said, they'd probably conclude I was getting a cold and advise me to take some [brand of icky cough syrup] and go to bed.

[FooZe]

Originally Posted by Muser

If I were to start a thread by the single word "why" it would be (and this is just me) that I am hesitant about starting and looking for the "OK" to begin....as in telling me it is safe it open up....

Often someone will show me (by how they respond and where they seem to be coming from) that it's safe. When someone tells me it's safe before I've had a chance to see for myself, I'm likely to hear it as,

"Won't you come into my parlor?"
said the spider to the fly...

...especially if they add (in so many words or not) that not feeling safe with them is bad form and means there must be something wrong with me.

[Ygrec23]

I guess I'm really, really dumb. To me, "why?" is just another question which, depending on the context, one can answer easily or not. So if enough energy is available, one does answer, and if not, not. I could be very, very wrong, but to me this is an "angels dancing on the head of a pin" subject. Do you folks who provide such elaborate answers regarding the "why" issue really in truth think this way about other issues too? Isn't that a waste of time? Why is such Victorian gingerbread thought called for? You may all be quite right, but I'm lost. Take care.

[pachyderm]

Ygrec, have you ever been asked something, by a parent, say, and then when you give your answer, they tell you that isn't what they wanted to hear, or tell you that you did not "really" mean what you said, or that you did not say what you said? And if you persist, your life becomes, it seems, in danger... Those might be reasons one hesitates when asked "Why".

[FooZe]

Originally Posted by Ygrec23

Why is such Victorian gingerbread thought called for?

Beats me! Maybe that's an example of the kind of question I can't answer so easily.

[lynn P.]

I don't know if I'm a dummy here or I'm just a straight forward person who's used to dealing with feelings simplistically - but I have missed the boat here. Can someone explain what the hay you're talking about in clear cut terms lol.

[Muser]

There can be as many different motives behind the question as there are people asking it.

If I question myself, or ask others "why" this or that...it's to gain understanding so I can resolve an issue or at least better understand.

[FooZe]

Let me throw in another illustration of how "why-questions" can lead away from the truth. There's a cute little folk song that goes something like this:

There's a hole in the bucket, dear Liza, dear Liza.
There's a hole in the bucket, dear Liza, a hole.

Then fix it, dear Henry, dear Henry, dear Henry.
Then fix it, dear Henry, dear Henry, then fix it.

With what shall I fix it, dear Liza? (etc.)
With straw, dear Henry... (etc.)

The straw is too long...
Then cut it...

With what shall I cut it?...
With a knife...

The knife is too dull...
Then sharpen it...

With what shall I sharpen it?...
With a stone...

The stone is too dry...
Then wet it...

With what shall I wet it?...
With water...

With what shall I fetch it?...
With a bucket...

There's a hole in the bucket...

Looking at this imaginary conversation as outside observers we can see that poor Henry is not entirely committed to getting those chores done. Asking "why not?" doesn't promise to get Liza any closer to a real answer:

"Why don't you plug the hole in the bucket with some straw?"
"Because the straw is too long."

"Why don't you cut the straw with a knife?"
"Because the knife is too dull."

"Why don't you sharpen the knife?"
"Because the stone is too dry."

"Why don't you wet the stone with some water?"
"Because there's a hole in the bucket."

Each step sounds logical enough but something else is really steering the conversation and the answers don't reveal what that is. If Liza were to ask a different sort of why-question, she might still get a runaround but by a different route:

"Henry? Why aren't you fixing the bucket?"
"Aw, Liza, it's too hot out! Geez!"

A more truthful answer might be something like, "Because I don't want to!" Henry might not be willing to tell Liza that, or if he did, Liza might soon let him know he was in trouble. Asking him "Why don't you want to?", however, would probably not elicit much useful information.

Did this illustration shed any light on the subject? Or if darkness, then at least interesting darkness?

[pachyderm]

Originally Posted by Fool Zero

Let me throw in another illustration of how "why-questions" can lead away from the truth.

Or not.

(The message you have entered is too short. Please lengthen your message to at least 8 characters.)

[Muser]

Fool Zero...has it been your experience that someone asks "why" just for the sake of argument? Is that what I am getting? Maybe some do.

I ask someone why to understand a concept either with them or myself. Some that have tried to "fix" me, have been quick to say I have no reason to feel this way or that. Or even been as blunt to say "that's stupid" but I have always wanted/needed to know how things work....be it the insides of a spray can or my own head. Years ago when I bristled badly every time I came in contact with a certain individual, I read book after book about relationships, birth order, blah blah blah. Never really figured it out but to this day I still ask myself why. If my child lies to me...I want to know why.

If I were to ask you "why" you chose Fool Zero for a user name would you be offended? If you replied "I'd rather not say" that's OK with me...I'm not offended...I was just interested. If you gave me an explanation and I said (which I wouldn't do) that was dumb, I can see why you wouldn't like the the question...especially if that happened with your feelings or values.

Maybe we have beat this "why" thing to death but I found it interesting how differently each of us responded. I enjoyed the exchange of ideas.

to all

[lynn P.]

Thanks Fool Zero - I get it now lol.

I actually became impressed with your mind simply because these thoughts occurred to you Fool Zero.....I dunno how others perceived the whole thing...but I simply find the contemplation very deep.Something that never would have even occurred to me to ponder....darn it naow I shall need to inspect your posts...but Ima sleepy gurl...so after a nap then(: ~W~
~~~~~~~~~~<<<@
Geez I adore u Lynn btw somehow you always end up causing me to smile...regardless...I always find I agree w/ u....Lololzzzz Gahhhh & that peekaboo kittehhh** Woof!**

[pachyderm]

Originally Posted by wolfsong

I actually became impressed with your mind...

That's what they all say...

[darkpurplesecrets]

For some to ask "WHY" meant that you were going to get in trouble and not even explained to. When you asked "WHY" you were not taking what was told to you and how dare you question anything. Or that was how it was for myself growing up. There was no need to ask why for if you were told something it was the way it was and it was better left to just do what was said.

After growing up with that all your life, and yes even later in life when it seemed you had no right to ask "WHY" it makes you feel that you have no right to even consider asking "WHY." So when someone asks you why it feels as a trick. I am not saying that those who ask you why are wrong by any means but to myself it does not pay to ask why and then get hit with the feelings of I should not have done that or to ask why to be belittled and feeling you should know already.

I am not sure if what I have said makes any sense but many times to ask why for myself scares me and makes me think that I am not just accepting or thankful for others help. When others take time to give you a thought out answer (which was not the case in my life for the most part until over the last few years) I always felt that I had to accept it or I was not thankful for them giving me their answer.

I know this may not make sense to anyone but to me it was something I learned very early. I know that I am re-learning things, many for the first time and realizing that it is okay to have your own thoughts and questions, but when you never knew it was okay to question it becomes hard to understand and to do, and not feel wrong for even having the thought of "WHY."

dps

[pachyderm]

Makes sense to me.

[Muser]

Originally Posted by darkpurplesecrets

I know this may not make sense
dps

Makes perfect sense.

I had a very understanding mom so if she asked it was because she truly cared. I for one have always had just a few close friends rather than a large social circle so their questions would be perceived as that of interest. My experiences being different from yours makes my initial reaction different. I guess I don't object to the question as much as I fear no one caring enough to ask.

That's what they all say to fool zero?...That's who I meant....lol...How'd you know what they all say to fool zero....??? LOL

[pachyderm]

"I love you for your mind..."

ah ha hah ....I see...well...indeed...the mind wins me over anything....anyday....Bodys fade......Yes??

[Gus1234U]

here is a clear lesson in learning to listen to what is asked, not what is said. everyone is so different, for all being the same.... both at once, neither together... best wishes,, Gus