[swimfan67]

Backstory: My friend and I have known each other for 10 years. He is married. I, female, am a few years younger and we've become good friends. We work together.
At work, I noticed him and another female coworker touch each other in a (what I thought) inappropriate manner. Because of our environment, I texted him about what was going on/what I saw. He immediately denied that it was nothing more than "play fighting" and it wasn't what I thought I saw. I still felt uneasy so I didn't take his word right away, and *I think* that's what threw him into a cussing, beyond angry, frenzy (all through text). I apologized for questioning his integrity and his actions, because that wasn't my intention. No resolve.
Today, no words/actions were exchanged between us and he would purposely leave the same room I was in, break eye contact, turn away from me, etc.
Now this is our first BIG fight. We've had plenty of arguments, bantering, whatever. I texted him and asked if we were ignoring each other - he replied - "Just give me my space please" and that was that.
Now since this is our first big fight...I'm not sure what to do. I'm the type that is extremely proactive and I want to fix the problem immediately. I deeply regret angering him and even bringing up to him something that I thought I saw, which...I trust that he has zero sexual motives/relations with this girl or any other. I just saw this one thing and wanted to bring it to his attention...which deeply offended/angered/hurt him.
So now...do I give him his space? We don't see each other every day. Or do I make an attempt to call/text and apologize, offer a resolution, try to work things out?

[eskielover]

Ok, if something didn't happen, I doubt that he would have responded to you in such an angry negative way....his action whether he admits it or not says he got caught doing something he didn't want you to notice. By acting so negative it's almost like he is bullying you into not believing what you really saw. People don't react so swearing negative if they really haven't dine something most times.

Give him his space....honestly I wouldn't want to keep a friendship like that going even if you have been friends for 10 years. A REAL friend doesn't react the way he did whether he did or didn't do what you saw in the way you saw it. Don't doubt what you saw just because he tells you to.

IMO....Let that friendship slide into a work place acquaintance. This is something you can't fix....the way he treated you was totally unacceptable & he should be the one apologizing NOT YOU.

Hello swimfan67, I see this is your first post so welcome to PC! I hope you find your time here to be of benefit. Once you have 5 approved posts, you will be able to enter the chat room and talk to fellow members. There is almost always someone online to chat with.

It sounds like your friend reacted far too defensively for nothing to have been going on. I think he was caught doing something inappropriate and lashed out at you for pointing it out. I agree with eskielover - he should be the one apologizing to you.

[Rose76]

His interaction with that other female co-worker may have been exactly what you originally thought it was. When you say it was "inappropriate" touching, I take it you mean that it struck you as sexualized. My guess is that you're probably right. Do you monitor the interactions of all your co-workers? Or only his? If you and he were not in a friendship, would you have texted him about the interaction?

Why were you holding him accountable for this interaction? Are you concerned that he is betraying his wife? In other words, if he had not been married, would this incident have made you feel concern?

He doesn't like you critiquing his behavior. That may be because he is embarrassed that you saw him. That may be because he considers it none of your business. Is it?

I had an experience at work of turning into a hallway and seeing something that I was not meant to see. Two employees, a male and a female, were engaging in an embrace and an intimate kiss. The female happened to be married to another guy who worked there who was not the guy that was kissing her. The two kissers were obviously embarrassed when I stumbled upon them. She immediately launched into a lame story about how they had been kidding around. I made no query, acted indifferent and went on with getting to where I was going. I thought it was unfortunate that these two were not more discrete, and I hoped I wouldn't bump into something like that again. As it so happened, I didn't. I never mentioned the situation again to either of them. They both were good employees who got their jobs done.

I eventually heard through the grapevine that it was generally known throughout the workplace that these two employees were having an adulterous affair. I think my response when I bumped into the two of them was about right. I judged it to be, basically, none of my business. I did not see this kind of interaction between the two of them again. If I had, I may very well have taken the female aside. (I had some supervisory authority over the female.) Like I said, I thought it was unfortunate that these two had this relationship. (The female also had an adult daughter working there.) But, since there was no ongoing issue with their work performance and behavior, I saw no reason to not just let the incident pass.

When one witnesses behavior that really doesn't belong in the workplace, one can feel disconcerted, or even offended. That doesn't mean that rebuking the parties involved is always called for. In your case, swimfan, you texted him about what you saw, but you didn't text her. Why not?

This guy now sees his friendship with you as a liability. He feels threatened. It seems that you regret him thinking you challenged his "integrity." I don't think that is the main thing bothering him. My guess is that he is going to permanently distance himself from you.

You wonder should you offer him "a resolution." What is it that you think needs to be resolved?

[MickeyCheeky]

I agree with the others.. he sounds way too defensive. I don't really have any advice on how to deal with this, though.. :/

[swimfan67]

Originally Posted by eskielover

Ok, if something didn't happen, I doubt that he would have responded to you in such an angry negative way....his action whether he admits it or not says he got caught doing something he didn't want you to notice. By acting so negative it's almost like he is bullying you into not believing what you really saw. People don't react so swearing negative if they really haven't dine something most times.

Give him his space....honestly I wouldn't want to keep a friendship like that going even if you have been friends for 10 years. A REAL friend doesn't react the way he did whether he did or didn't do what you saw in the way you saw it. Don't doubt what you saw just because he tells you to.

IMO....Let that friendship slide into a work place acquaintance. This is something you can't fix....the way he treated you was totally unacceptable & he should be the one apologizing NOT YOU.

That's what I was afraid of. This is also not the first time I've brought up their interactions together, so maybe that's why he was so defensive? Their interaction happened in front of 50+ people, but I don't know if anyone else cared/saw. Leaving this friendship alone is not in my playbook. I'm not giving up.

[swimfan67]

Originally Posted by Rose76

His interaction with that other female co-worker may have been exactly what you originally thought it was. When you say it was "inappropriate" touching, I take it you mean that it struck you as sexualized. My guess is that you're probably right. Do you monitor the interactions of all your co-workers? Or only his? If you and he were not in a friendship, would you have texted him about the interaction?

Why were you holding him accountable for this interaction? Are you concerned that he is betraying his wife? In other words, if he had not been married, would this incident have made you feel concern?

He doesn't like you critiquing his behavior. That may be because he is embarrassed that you saw him. That may be because he considers it none of your business. Is it?

I had an experience at work of turning into a hallway and seeing something that I was not meant to see. Two employees, a male and a female, were engaging in an embrace and an intimate kiss. The female happened to be married to another guy who worked there who was not the guy that was kissing her. The two kissers were obviously embarrassed when I stumbled upon them. She immediately launched into a lame story about how they had been kidding around. I made no query, acted indifferent and went on with getting to where I was going. I thought it was unfortunate that these two were not more discrete, and I hoped I wouldn't bump into something like that again. As it so happened, I didn't. I never mentioned the situation again to either of them. They both were good employees who got their jobs done.

I eventually heard through the grapevine that it was generally known throughout the workplace that these two employees were having an adulterous affair. I think my response when I bumped into the two of them was about right. I judged it to be, basically, none of my business. I did not see this kind of interaction between the two of them again. If I had, I may very well have taken the female aside. (I had some supervisory authority over the female.) Like I said, I thought it was unfortunate that these two had this relationship. (The female also had an adult daughter working there.) But, since there was no ongoing issue with their work performance and behavior, I saw no reason to not just let the incident pass.

When one witnesses behavior that really doesn't belong in the workplace, one can feel disconcerted, or even offended. That doesn't mean that rebuking the parties involved is always called for. In your case, swimfan, you texted him about what you saw, but you didn't text her. Why not?

This guy now sees his friendship with you as a liability. He feels threatened. It seems that you regret him thinking you challenged his "integrity." I don't think that is the main thing bothering him. My guess is that he is going to permanently distance himself from you.

You wonder should you offer him "a resolution." What is it that you think needs to be resolved?

I tend to pay more attention to his interactions, especially with this one coworker, because I've brought up to him two times before about their interactions being a bit too "close". If we weren't friends, I probably wouldn't have messaged him, because I don't know of the scenarios/not my business.

I'm holding him accountable because one, he is married. Two, he considered himself to be a "womanizer" earlier in his life, but once he found Jesus, he's changed. And he has! I just don't want/am afraid of him going back to those days, and I know he's struggled with those thoughts as well. I of course feel like he is betraying his wife, as well as our friendship. There has been 100% transparency between us, and if he's lying to me or covering something up, he's betraying me as well. I mentioned before this isn't the first time I've felt concerned about their interactions...this is the first time, about anything, he's cussed at me. He NEVER cusses.

I didn't bring it up to her because I don't see the same sexualized interactions coming from her. She doesn't always initiate it, I see it from him.

He KNOWS I would never judge him for anything he's done or will do. If he is having sexual relations with this girl, I want to help him see that that is not the way. He is married. That is his coworker. Where we work, in the line of work we do, it is beyond inappropriate. I'll give him his space to cool off. But I see him Tuesday at work, and I want to be able to talk to him.

[Sunflower123]

Since you've been good friends for 10 years, let him have his space until he gets over it and contacts you again. Or give it some time and contact him again. I agree he was a bit defensive. For what reason, I don't know. Just give him space. If he's going to let a 10 year friendship go down the tubes over something like this that says something about him and not about you. Best wishes.

[swimfan67]

Originally Posted by Jennifer 1967

Since you've been good friends for 10 years, let him have his space until he gets over it and contacts you again. Or give it some time and contact him again. I agree he was a bit defensive. For what reason, I don't know. Just give him space. If he's going to let a 10 year friendship go down the tubes over something like this that says something about him and not about you. Best wishes.

I agree. I think he's just extremely angry and needs to cool off. I asked him plenty of times during our heated argument (on his end) if he was done talking, or didn't want to be friends, and he never said anything about it.
I hope he just needs his space and we'll be okay in the end.

[Rose76]

If he were to continue interacting with this female co-worker in a flirtatious/sexualized way, what would you be prepared to do? Suppose you came to know that he was pursuing this young woman out of sexual interest, and suppose he rejected your advice to end it, would you feel obligated to take some action?

If it seemed like he was returning to his womanizing ways, how would that affect your willingness to be friends with him? Do you think there could come a point where you would advise his wife about his inappropriate behavior? Do you have a friendship with her also?

Have you considered the possibility that his womanizing tendencies might cause him to someday come on to you? People do have a tendency to relapse into old behaviors. How do you think you would handle it, if he were to make advances towards you?

Finally, is this something that, at some point, if it continued, you would feel should be brought to the attention of your employer? Could it impair the ability of co-workers to function and carry on their responsibilities?

[eskielover]

Originally Posted by swimfan67

Leaving this friendship alone is not in my playbook. I'm not giving up.

....Why? If he reacted with cussing I can pretty much assure you from what you have said about him that he' s not interested in living without his womanizing. What are you going to do if this IS HIS CHOICE & he has no interest in listening to you? After all it is his FREE WILL choice.....no matter what he has declared himself to be verbally.

[swimfan67]

Originally Posted by eskielover

....Why? If he reacted with cussing I can pretty much assure you from what you have said about him that he' s not interested in living without his womanizing. What are you going to do if this IS HIS CHOICE & he has no interest in listening to you? After all it is his FREE WILL choice.....no matter what he has declared himself to be verbally.

Because I care. We have both dealt with much bigger issues separately, together, in our pasts, and we've promised to stick by each other. I know the person he can be and has been, I'm not going to 'disown' my friend for a mistake he might have made. But I'm not going to give up on him.

[eskielover]

You may have no choice if he disowns you. After all you are NOT his wife.

[swimfan67]

Originally Posted by eskielover

You may have no choice if he disowns you. After all you are NOT his wife.

Nope! Certainly not. But he hasn't disowned me yet, so I'm still in the fight for the better.

[s4ndm4n2006]

Originally Posted by swimfan67

Backstory: My friend and I have known each other for 10 years. He is married. I, female, am a few years younger and we've become good friends. We work together.
At work, I noticed him and another female coworker touch each other in a (what I thought) inappropriate manner. Because of our environment, I texted him about what was going on/what I saw. He immediately denied that it was nothing more than "play fighting" and it wasn't what I thought I saw. I still felt uneasy so I didn't take his word right away, and *I think* that's what threw him into a cussing, beyond angry, frenzy (all through text). I apologized for questioning his integrity and his actions, because that wasn't my intention. No resolve.
Today, no words/actions were exchanged between us and he would purposely leave the same room I was in, break eye contact, turn away from me, etc.
Now this is our first BIG fight. We've had plenty of arguments, bantering, whatever. I texted him and asked if we were ignoring each other - he replied - "Just give me my space please" and that was that.
Now since this is our first big fight...I'm not sure what to do. I'm the type that is extremely proactive and I want to fix the problem immediately. I deeply regret angering him and even bringing up to him something that I thought I saw, which...I trust that he has zero sexual motives/relations with this girl or any other. I just saw this one thing and wanted to bring it to his attention...which deeply offended/angered/hurt him.
So now...do I give him his space? We don't see each other every day. Or do I make an attempt to call/text and apologize, offer a resolution, try to work things out?

you are a proactive person that likes to fix things. Fix it, by leaving him alone for now. That is the resolution. Doing otherwise disrespects his wishes. Even if it doesn't directly fix things, the repair to the relationship won't happen if you damage it more by ignoring his request to leave him alone and give him space. Sometimes this IS the only thing you can do.

[swimfan67]

Update: he has messaged me. He was deeply hurt with what I accused him of and how I questioned his integrity, honor, and character (this is something he prides himself on and it is also something I've never questioned him on). He's making it a point to talk with the female coworker to make sure their friendship is as pure as possible so there is no questions coming from me or anyone else. But he is extremely hurt, offended, and appalled at what I did.
I did not mean to do any of those things, it's something I wasn't even thinking about.
So how do I go about apologizing and moving forward?

[s4ndm4n2006]

Originally Posted by swimfan67

Update: he has messaged me. He was deeply hurt with what I accused him of and how I questioned his integrity, honor, and character (this is something he prides himself on and it is also something I've never questioned him on). He's making it a point to talk with the female coworker to make sure their friendship is as pure as possible so there is no questions coming from me or anyone else. But he is extremely hurt, offended, and appalled at what I did.
I did not mean to do any of those things, it's something I wasn't even thinking about.
So how do I go about apologizing and moving forward?

This is what I had thought might be the problem. That he was offended by your not believing him. I had problems accepting the quick judgment that some others made that his anger was proof that he was acting inappropriately knowing full well there could have been other reasons for this.

I'm glad he expressed his reasons honesetly with you.

AT this point your worries should be a bit less about how to apologize because he obviously didn't tell you he was hurt just so he could write off the friendship but hopes that you'll understand. Meaning: he will be open to apologies, if you feel you need to.

I cannot say how you acted was offensive or wrong. But if you feel the brunt of the responsibility for it, then I only think that if anything, perhaps you handled it wrong is all. With that I would approach it without apologizing for misunderstanding, that does happen but in how you brought it up to him. try to come to an understanding that if you feel he has made a mistake you will approach it more sensitively assuming not that he is already guilty but giving him a chance to explain and to trust his answer.

This misunderstanding really was all about communication. Your mistake was not taking him at his word, his mistake was not voicing his being hurt without anger and overreacting. Keep in mind you are both responsible for your parts in the dispute. I think you both need apologies.

[swimfan67]

Originally Posted by s4ndm4n2006

This is what I had thought might be the problem. That he was offended by your not believing him. I had problems accepting the quick judgment that some others made that his anger was proof that he was acting inappropriately knowing full well there could have been other reasons for this.

I'm glad he expressed his reasons honesetly with you.

AT this point your worries should be a bit less about how to apologize because he obviously didn't tell you he was hurt just so he could write off the friendship but hopes that you'll understand. Meaning: he will be open to apologies, if you feel you need to.

I cannot say how you acted was offensive or wrong. But if you feel the brunt of the responsibility for it, then I only think that if anything, perhaps you handled it wrong is all. With that I would approach it without apologizing for misunderstanding, that does happen but in how you brought it up to him. try to come to an understanding that if you feel he has made a mistake you will approach it more sensitively assuming not that he is already guilty but giving him a chance to explain and to trust his answer.

This misunderstanding really was all about communication. Your mistake was not taking him at his word, his mistake was not voicing his being hurt without anger and overreacting. Keep in mind you are both responsible for your parts in the dispute. I think you both need apologies.

I definitely apologized for not trusting his judgement with his friends, and overall apologized for questioning his integrity, honor, and character...because that was not what I was meaning to do, but in the end, it came off that way. I should not have even messaged him from the beginning because I should have just trusted the fact that he would never do something like that, especially with a coworker, a friend of ours and his wife's..
He said he does not need me in his life to be checking to see if he's "behaving well". I don't want to read too into that, but I just hope he means THAT...not that he doesn't need me in his life, period.
But...Ball is in his court now.

[swimfan67]

Update part two: He responded. He said he forgives me, but is not sure where to go from here. Part of him feels like we just need to give each other space, another part of him thinks we should just draw the line and keep it a professional relationship. He says he still cares, but how he displays it might be different than what we're used to.
My heart is broken...
What can I do?

[eskielover]

Like you said, the ball was in his court to choose....sounds like he chose. Not much you can do. If he doesn't want to continue your friendship the way you want him to....you can't force him just because YOU want it that way....you CAN RESPECT HIS CHOICE.

[Rose76]

Maybe you might question some of your basic premises, which I think are questionable. If not, I think you are on borrowed time with this friendship. I say that because I think you are avoiding the elephant in the room, which seems to be under-addressed in this thread. And I think he's mindful of it:

So you are pleased that he will make sure that his relations with this lady "are as pure as possible," so that there will be no questions coming from you. So that resolves things, kinda. If this guy has even the flimsiest of backbones and even the weakest of personal boundaries, he's going to wake up one morning and think: "Why do I have to make utterly certain that nothing in my behavior should, in the least way, raise up any suspicions in her. Why does she get to call me on the carpet? Why should I allow that?" It's nice that you admire his character, but doesn't he get to decide what his character can be? He is gratified that you approve of him. But maybe he'll decide: "I'll be who I choose to be, and she can take it or leave it."

Why does he have to live up to your standards of who he should be? Because you are his friend gives you that right? I don't think so. And I'll bet he doesn't think so. Maybe I'm all wrong. You can disregard me totally. But ask yourself: What do you think is still bothering him, despite all the making up you did? You're claiming authority over him that you'll have a hard time asserting over your own children, whom you do, or will, have a duty to set standards of behavior for.

[swimfan67]

Originally Posted by Rose76

Maybe you might question some of your basic premises, which I think are questionable. If not, I think you are on borrowed time with this friendship. I say that because I think you are avoiding the elephant in the room, which seems to be under-addressed in this thread. And I think he's mindful of it:

So you are pleased that he will make sure that his relations with this lady "are as pure as possible," so that there will be no questions coming from you. So that resolves things, kinda. If this guy has even the flimsiest of backbones and even the weakest of personal boundaries, he's going to wake up one morning and think: "Why do I have to make utterly certain that nothing in my behavior should, in the least way, raise up any suspicions in her. Why does she get to call me on the carpet? Why should I allow that?" It's nice that you admire his character, but doesn't he get to decide what his character can be? He is gratified that you approve of him. But maybe he'll decide: "I'll be who I choose to be, and she can take it or leave it."

Why does he have to live up to your standards of who he should be? Because you are his friend gives you that right? I don't think so. And I'll bet he doesn't think so. Maybe I'm all wrong. You can disregard me totally. But ask yourself: What do you think is still bothering him, despite all the making up you did? You're claiming authority over him that you'll have a hard time asserting over your own children, whom you do, or will, have a duty to set standards of behavior for.

He's making sure of his relations with her not for me, but for everyone around them. He doesn't want to raise any suspicion because I'm not the only one who has brought it to his attention - I was just more blunt with it and coming from someone who cares about him and has NEVER judged him, I hurt him pretty badly because underlying all that...I judged him, and I judged him incorrectly.
Of course he ultimately decides who his character is and he has told me time & time again that he is working to become a better person and have a better walk with God. He knows I accept him and his flaws, always have and always will.
It's because he's told me of his past, his mistakes, his flaws..and how badly he wants to change, that as a friend, he's asked me to hold him accountable for some things.
Our friendship hasn't been at it's best the past month due to my depression and it taking a negative toll on our friendship...and this scenario just kinda broke it apart.

[eskielover]

He doesn't want to raise any suspicion because I'm not the only one who has brought it to his attention

So others have noticed his questionable behaviors too & others have even brought it to his attention? He got angry with you, did he get angry at them too? He doesn't think there is anything wrong with his behaviors when others noticedç fg anything wrong?

It's because he's told me of his past, his mistakes, his flaws..and how badly he wants to change, that as a friend, he's asked me to hold him accountable for some things.

So Let me get this straight:
*You & others have noticed his questionable behaviors.
*He asked you to hold him accountable for behaviors like this
*You did what he asked you to do.
*Then he gets angry at you & cusses you out for doing what he asked you to do in the first place?

He was deeply hurt with what I accused him of and how I questioned his integrity, honor, and character (this is something he prides himself on)

Huge contradiction between these last 2 quoted statements regarding him. He wouldn't have needed to ask you to hold him accountable for behaviors if there was no problem with them showing a lack of integrity, honor & character that he didn't pride himself on.

He should be THANKING YOU for pointing out that his suspicious behavior habbit has shown itself again & that you discretely pointed it out via texts to make him aware that the behavior he ASKED YOU to hold him accountable for was indeed showing up in his actions. It was the behavior he asked you to hold him accountable for & behaviors are behaviors regardless of WHO the behavior was being done to.

I judged him

When you ask someone to hold a behavior accountable there has to be a level of judgment there in the first place as he is asking you to judge whether his behavior fits the pattern that he has asked to be held accountable for.

I should not have even messaged him from the beginning because I should have just trusted the fact that he would never do something like that,

It's because he's told me of his past, his mistakes, his flaws..and how badly he wants to change, that as a friend, he's asked me to hold him accountable for some things.

He would never do something like that? That kind of behavior is exactly what he asked you to hold him accountable for...irrelavent as to who he is doing tyhe behavior with....IT'S THE BEHAVIOR he asked you to hold him accountable for.

That's like shooting the messenger he hired to deliver the message.

There is definitely a flaw in both your concepts.

Part of him feels like we just need to give each other space, another part of him thinks we should just draw the line and keep it a professional relationship. He says he still cares, but how he displays it might be different than what we're used to.

So he NO LONGER wants you to hold him accountable for the behavior he is struggling with?....that comes through loud & clear.

[swimfan67]

Talked to him again today. I mentioned that I wish that things didn't have to be this way, and he said, "I mean, it does until there are different decisions to be made...which is what I'm in the process of doing."
What does that mean?? Is that good or bad?

[s4ndm4n2006]

you can't know if it's good or bad, neither can we.. he didn't really say anything definitive in his statement. Boy do I hate it when people are that way