[Ken_Wantanabe]

It's been two years since I lost my two old friends. I'll try to be brief and explain how each ended, since it's important to know the details:

FRIEND #1:

Once, a few years ago, I really disagreed with something he wrote on his Facebook. He had praised some lady who said she resented her kids; wished she never had them; said they took away from her shopping time. My friend called her a "hero" and said "more parents need to admit having kids is a pain". He was serious. Wasn't joking around.

So I stepped in and said, "No, she's not a hero. She's a selfish person, and her writing that publicly was a slap in the face to her kids." I was pretty forceful in making a series of points after that, disagreeing with him. He did not argue or even address me, but some of his FB friends did.

He then took me aside, private messaged me, and said, "You can't talk like that on my Facebook and you can't talk to my friends like that." BAM, blocked me. I was surprised, because this is a loud-mouthed guy who talked for a good 15 years about how he "loves debate" and "loves to be challenged" (yeah, right).

I tried to reconnect (I shouldn't have) -- and he very reluctantly did like a year later. We never discussed the Facebook "incident" (but he seemed butthurt about it, he'd grumble, "I'm over it.") A year after that, I asked why we never hang out, he gave a bunch of lame excuses, and I BLEW UP. I really let him have it in terms of how much he had changed and how he was a bad friend. Bam, he blocked me again. No response that time.

So, that's what happened with him. He really dramatically CHANGED as a person -- totally changed -- started running with a new crowd (on Facebook), a group of people who never seemed to disagree with him, ever.

Ironically, he later married a woman with a kid -- one he called a "sugar momma" -- he moved out of his parents house to go live with her, because she had a car, nice house, good career. He does all this with a straight face, too. He's a total mooch, but thinks he's smarter than everyone because he has a Master's degree (and tons of debt).

The past seven or eight years, he just turned into a bigger and bigger idiot. He wasn't like this growing up when I knew him in his teens and 20s.
Opposite, in fact. That's probably why I got a little more combative with him -- seeing him change.

FRIEND #2:

Long story short, I dated someone he didn't want me to date (his girlfriend's sister, as a matter of fact). Someone, based on a misunderstanding, who he thought "meddled" in his life. He hated her! After 9 months of GRIEF, he finally relented and agreed HE had not gotten all the facts, he was wrong -- which he was, 100% WRONG. It was a total misunderstanding and he blamed her for something someone else had done.

But that didn't matter. He still expected me to apologize to him, even though I did nothing wrong.

He's kind of stubborn and a bully, so I just unleashed -- blasted him for 20 years of hypocritical behavior, bullying, disrespect.

He actually AGREED I was RIGHT, and THANKED ME... but then ended the friendship and insulted me. Blocked me. Even though he admitted I was right, he was so butthurt, he couldn't go on being friends.

SO THAT IS IT.

Those are my two "friends".

In each case, I felt both of them changed a lot. Both can't take ANY criticism, but BOY they can dish it out!

For too many years, I rarely spoke up or pushed back much, and it seems when I finally did, they bailed, quick.

I'm upset at them, I feel I got a raw deal, and they disappointed me and really let me down. I always took THEIR criticism (which I welcomed, in many respects, because constructive criticism helps a person grow -- and in their case, it wasn't always constructive, but more like projection, but I let it slide). But they did not like getting it back.

I don't know what to do about it.

I know most will say, "Move on"... but is it worth contacting them or anything? Is ... it worth it trying to... I don't even know what can be said. I really just want to tell them to "Get over the butthurt, our friendships ended over stuff adults work out."

I actually do miss them -- I'm shocked things ended over such petty crap, but I really think they just have big egos and hate any kind of push-back.

Thank you for reading.

[Crazy Hitch]

I'll speak about Friend 1 first.

I'm going to play devil's advocate here, to give you a different perspective.

I think neither perspective, your friends or yours, could be considered the ultimately perfect perspective. I'm just throwing this out there, so you can consider this from another point of view.

Friend 1: His response was, "more parents need to admit having kids is a pain". That's fine, he's entitled to an opinion. I think my kids can be a pain sometimes too . But I love them dearly and I'm so blessed to have them in my life. I don't think, based on what you typed, he was saying people shouldn't have kids because it interferes with shopping - in fact, the Facebook post sounds like a satirical one, as opposed to being a serious one.

The other issue here is, you ousted him publicly in the post, and berated a friend of his, going so far as to call her selfish. It probably would have been better in that situation, over a beer, to have bought it up light heartedly if you were that concerned, rather than publicly. He private messaged you about the situation, indicating his mannerism is not one to publicise indifferences of opinion. You could have had an indifference, but without the insults and name calling. But again - I go back to my original point - I don't think it was a serious article and I think it's one that took the mickey out of having kids.

Friend 2: This is kind of a difficult one for me to respond to.

Maybe some guys think it's loyalty to friends first before choosing a date? And he was miffed because you continued to date her, despite him objecting. So it's not about whether or not he was initially wrong about his impressions with regards to who you were dating, but more about the fact that you didn't put him and his opinions first.

You're right, these friendships did end over things that adults can sort out.

It's a question of whether or not they want to sort it out.

And a lot comes down to what your relationships were like, prior to this massive blowout.

They've probably shown their true colours. And made it clear, you were a better friend to them when you didn't push back / object (very wrong, I know).

I don't see much point, based on what you've written, of rekindling this friendship.

If you must, invite them out for a drink (soda if you don't drink) and take it from there. If they decline, then you have your answer. No point in rekindling the friendship.

[Sunflower123]

Crazy Hitch has made some excellent points and excellent advice. Good luck and best wishes.

[Altarian]

Even though i've dealt with losing a 20 plus year friendship over something that as i think on it was a dumb reason, i also agree with Crazy's statements. i'll tell you what a elder told me when i went to her for help with my lost friendship, "some people are not meant to be in our lives forever. sometimes people come into other's lives just long enough to teach something and then move on. It's our job to figure out what the lesson was and if we learned it." I hope one day you can find peace with these two situations and realize what the lesson was.

[Ken_Wantanabe]

Originally Posted by Crazy Hitch

I'll speak about Friend 1 first.

in fact, the Facebook post sounds like a satirical one, as opposed to being a serious one.

It was serious. He was quite serious. He had expressed to me, in private in the past, how much he hated the thought of having children. He really did think this woman was a "hero".

I'm not sure how any of it would relate to satire.

I think he glossed over some of the more odious aspects of the story, e.g. the "shopping" part, and that's why I stepped in and pointed that out.

Originally Posted by Crazy Hitch

"The other issue here is, you ousted him publicly in the post, and berated a friend of his, going so far as to call her selfish."

I didn't call any of his friends selfish. I called the parent who wrote the article selfish, which she is and was.

Let's be clear: there was no actual debate here. He, along with his friends, just hated my tone and approach, because I wasn't being all fake, PC, mealy-mouthed. That's how they talk. I don't talk like that. Any time you disagree, you have to preface it all with a bunch of mush about how you still "respect" everyone's view points, in an effort to ensure no one gets butthurt.

So they didn't even bother arguing my points, they just hated that I disagreed and presented myself in a way that did not make them feel all safe and comfortable.

They're snowflakes.

Originally Posted by Crazy Hitch

It probably would have been better in that situation, over a beer, to have bought it up light heartedly if you were that concerned, rather than publicly.

I DO agree with you that there were many ways to handle this.

Part of the reason I just jumped in and popped off my opinion is because I'd watched his Facebook page for a few years, and this was a pattern -- he posts some opinion, and 20 of these fake friends jump in and engage in all of this over-the-top praise and butt-kissing (there's a secondary reason for all this I won't get into, having to do with promotion of a product of his and the fact they were all in the same industry -- complicated, but explains why they all engaged in so much butt-kissing, because they need each other for different things within their industry. Of course, this goes unstated, but the friendliness is quite fake. I've actually seen the same phenomena in my OWN line of work, but I do not engage in it. Quid pro quo/scratch my back, I scratch yours sort of stuff, all dressed up with this, "Oh I really care about you and you're my best buddy!" crap).

So I'd just had it. I was curious to see if he could even handle anyone disagreeing, and disagreeing in a manner that did not go along with his penchant for P.C. decorum.

Keep in mind, this guy is a big-mouth who talked for years about how he loved "debate" and loved to be "challenged". lol...yeah, right.

"He private messaged you about the situation, indicating his mannerism is not one to publicise indifferences of opinion. You could have had an indifference, but without the insults and name calling."

In fairness to me, I didn't call anyone names. My opinion was certainly forceful, and to Snowflakes, that feels like they are being assaulted.

"But again - I go back to my original point - I don't think it was a serious article and I think it's one that took the mickey out of having kids."

No, it's a very serious article, still available online. I just read it the other day.

I do realize his "larger" point was that raising children isn't for everyone (a valid point) -- what irked me was the "hero" part, along with the butt-kissing from his fake friends -- not a single one who used ANY critical thinking or analysed the article.

And no, I do not think we need parents to "come forward" -- while their children are alive -- and say they wished they never had them.

Originally Posted by Crazy Hitch

Maybe some guys think it's loyalty to friends first before choosing a date? And he was miffed because you continued to date her, despite him objecting. So it's not about whether or not he was initially wrong about his impressions with regards to who you were dating, but more about the fact that you didn't put him and his opinions first.

You are correct. At one point he literally said, "It doesn't matter what happened or who she is, if I say not do date that person, you will not date that person if you are a good friend."

Nope, sorry, that's way over the top controlling and irrational behavior. Which I told him.

But anyway, it just feels like my friends never grew up, and I did.

And I'm disappointed in them.

That's the long and short of it. I just wish they'd grow up and grow a pair, and get over all this childish butthurt.

[rdgrad15]

Originally Posted by Ken_Wantanabe

It's been two years since I lost my two old friends. I'll try to be brief and explain how each ended, since it's important to know the details:

FRIEND #1:

Once, a few years ago, I really disagreed with something he wrote on his Facebook. He had praised some lady who said she resented her kids; wished she never had them; said they took away from her shopping time. My friend called her a "hero" and said "more parents need to admit having kids is a pain". He was serious. Wasn't joking around.

So I stepped in and said, "No, she's not a hero. She's a selfish person, and her writing that publicly was a slap in the face to her kids." I was pretty forceful in making a series of points after that, disagreeing with him. He did not argue or even address me, but some of his FB friends did.

He then took me aside, private messaged me, and said, "You can't talk like that on my Facebook and you can't talk to my friends like that." BAM, blocked me. I was surprised, because this is a loud-mouthed guy who talked for a good 15 years about how he "loves debate" and "loves to be challenged" (yeah, right).

I tried to reconnect (I shouldn't have) -- and he very reluctantly did like a year later. We never discussed the Facebook "incident" (but he seemed butthurt about it, he'd grumble, "I'm over it.") A year after that, I asked why we never hang out, he gave a bunch of lame excuses, and I BLEW UP. I really let him have it in terms of how much he had changed and how he was a bad friend. Bam, he blocked me again. No response that time.

So, that's what happened with him. He really dramatically CHANGED as a person -- totally changed -- started running with a new crowd (on Facebook), a group of people who never seemed to disagree with him, ever.

Ironically, he later married a woman with a kid -- one he called a "sugar momma" -- he moved out of his parents house to go live with her, because she had a car, nice house, good career. He does all this with a straight face, too. He's a total mooch, but thinks he's smarter than everyone because he has a Master's degree (and tons of debt).

The past seven or eight years, he just turned into a bigger and bigger idiot. He wasn't like this growing up when I knew him in his teens and 20s.
Opposite, in fact. That's probably why I got a little more combative with him -- seeing him change.

FRIEND #2:

Long story short, I dated someone he didn't want me to date (his girlfriend's sister, as a matter of fact). Someone, based on a misunderstanding, who he thought "meddled" in his life. He hated her! After 9 months of GRIEF, he finally relented and agreed HE had not gotten all the facts, he was wrong -- which he was, 100% WRONG. It was a total misunderstanding and he blamed her for something someone else had done.

But that didn't matter. He still expected me to apologize to him, even though I did nothing wrong.

He's kind of stubborn and a bully, so I just unleashed -- blasted him for 20 years of hypocritical behavior, bullying, disrespect.

He actually AGREED I was RIGHT, and THANKED ME... but then ended the friendship and insulted me. Blocked me. Even though he admitted I was right, he was so butthurt, he couldn't go on being friends.

SO THAT IS IT.

Those are my two "friends".

In each case, I felt both of them changed a lot. Both can't take ANY criticism, but BOY they can dish it out!

For too many years, I rarely spoke up or pushed back much, and it seems when I finally did, they bailed, quick.

I'm upset at them, I feel I got a raw deal, and they disappointed me and really let me down. I always took THEIR criticism (which I welcomed, in many respects, because constructive criticism helps a person grow -- and in their case, it wasn't always constructive, but more like projection, but I let it slide). But they did not like getting it back.

I don't know what to do about it.

I know most will say, "Move on"... but is it worth contacting them or anything? Is ... it worth it trying to... I don't even know what can be said. I really just want to tell them to "Get over the butthurt, our friendships ended over stuff adults work out."

I actually do miss them -- I'm shocked things ended over such petty crap, but I really think they just have big egos and hate any kind of push-back.

Thank you for reading.

Wow, sounds like they both changed and became more immature. I'm sorry to hear that. I do agree with other posters that arguing on Facebook with others publically was probably not the best idea. I've had people do that to me and I didn't like it, had to tell a couple people to stop arguing in public and do it privately instead. But other than that, sounds like they changed for the worst and the first friend sounds hypocritical. I've had friends like that, not for long though. Can't be around those kinds of people who act arrogant and can't take criticism and always has to be right.