[astoldbyginger]

Hi everyone, I am new to this forum. I found it through google, while looking for a safe space to get this off my chest. (Sorry I wrote an essay )

I am 26 years old and only just started to “accept” that I may have a toxic mother. My mother has, throughout my and my siblings lives, always been combative. In my pre-teens and teens she would yell quite a bit and hit me off and on (sadly this is quite common culturally, where I'm from so I never really questioned it). She was very over protective and controlling (still is, although not as bad). Only as an adult I am starting to make connections between my lack of confidence, self doubt and incompetency in certain situations to how she would prevent us from making our own decisions and thinking for ourselves.
Unlike my brother and sister who remained with her at home into their early 30s before getting married and moving out, constantly getting into fights and arguments, I chose to move away for four years to get a degree overseas when I was 21.
When I applied for my scholarship and started getting callbacks – a sign that the school and organization issuing the scholarship was interested in giving it to me, my mother even tried to tell me that I could not go. But at the time, I said to myself I don't care if she hates me for it, but I will get on that plane one way or another. However she did come to terms with it.
Flashforward to me at uni, my relationship with my mother became so much better. I even started justifying what she put us through by saying it was the only way to show us that she loved us. So much so that even if prior to leaving for school I had hopes of remaining overseas, after I graduated and worked for awhile, I told myself I wanted to spend a little more time with my family so I moved back home. Things were fine at first, my brother moved away to be with his wife, leaving my sis and I with my mom. Then things between my sister and mother grew incredibly sour, worse than it already was. Because I felt I understood my mother a little more, growing an appreciation for her while overseas, I thought my sister could have done a little more to make things right but I never pressured her about it, because I knew where she was coming from.
My sister has since left the house leaving it to just my mother and myself. I am 2 months in and woke up randomly in the middle of the night last night, and almost killed myself because of how bad I felt. My mother regularly stops speaking to me for different reasons. Sometimes for a day or more. She would get angry if she does or says something to me and I stick up for myself (sometimes, I admit, I yell back at her, which I am not proud of. I have even apologized in some instances, though she has never)
Our arguments usually occur when she is trying to be controlling; shouting at me while I'm driving – although she has never driven in her life -, trying to tell me what to do with my money, or when she insults me (telling me i'm lazy etc.) It gets to me because she said stuff like that (and worse) when I was in my teens and I believed her and thought I was such an invalid. Then I went to UNI, lived on my own and realized none of it were true and that I am pretty great lol. I even graduated at the top of my class when before UNI I was average at best. But because I know both sides, I see the psychological implications her saying things like that to me can have and my instincts are to shut it down quickly. But then she thinks I am out of line. She takes in nothing I say, even when I explain that, for instance, I don't like her name calling because it is hurtful, reminds me of my teens and is untrue and out of anger she tries to punish me by giving me the cold shoulder. This happens atleast once a week.
On Thursday it happened again but this time I had no idea what I did and felt very uncomfortable. At one point in the night I asked her what I did and she started yelling, saying that I had gotten defensive a few hours earlier when I came to pick her up at the bus stop after work and she asked if [I] didn't see that it was raining to drive closer to the bus stop to come get her, to which I responded, quite calmly too, or atleast from my perspective, that it had only just started drizzling where I was at (which was the obvious truth) – not to mention she was the one who told me to wait for her where I was parked.
All in all though, I am really tired of this, especially since she does this at her own discretion. She treats me this way up until the next morning or whenever she feels like it and begins talking to me again like nothing happened.
My mother took great care of us physically and domestically. I can hardly remember a time when we didn't have food on the table and we always had a place to sleep, books in our bags and clothes to wear. But I am emotionally exhausted and the resentment and hateful feelings that spring on me are not good for my spirit. I do not want to just go and leave her behind to fend for herself, because 1) where we live is not safe and 2) she needs help with her bills etc and I am trying to save up and start my own business so living together benefits us both. But I do think it's time to create some distance.

I think it's time you understand you also have siblings which can help her out. Your mother is particularly the one who needs to understand that.
You can rent a cheap apartment and still save some money for the business. Although a bit less, you won't have toxic tendencies draining you from being more productive than you can be.

[astoldbyginger]

Thank you for your response and reading my longgg post. For some really odd reason I never considered us all chiming in to help her out. Thanks for that. Yeah, it had become glaringly obvious to me that I need to get out and away. It's the way it should be, especially since I have had an independent spirit from a very young age.. and now at 26 I just can't anymore.

[Travelinglady]

Hi, astoldbyginger, and welcome to Psych Central! You say some of her behavior is cultural. I think by American standards she'd be considered "toxic"-emotionally abusing. I don't think she'd change, even if you pointed that out, so, yes, it's up to you to get on with your life and try not to worry about pleasing her. Sad, but....

[Open Eyes]

Hi astoldbyginger, welcome to PC. I think that what your mother is showing you in her behavior patterns towards you the most is how she learned to communicate which as you are seeing now that you have gotten an education and spent time away from her is that she has poor communication skills.

The kind of behavior your mother is exhibiting can actually be considered normal in some cultures too. Going abroad and experiencing a different culture and at the same time getting an education can really be an eye opener, especially when you go back home and see the culture you grew up in in a different light and how that might be constricting in ways you may not have realized before. Your mother sounds like she has some immature patterns of behavior that you can see about her now. This doesn't mean YOU are not worthy of respect, it means she doesn't know how to communicate with you on any different level. It can be a challenge to move back to live with a parent again after being away and maturing, often a parent continues to put the child in a role they unknowingly put that child in when this child is really no longer a child. It sounds like your mother got you playing the old loop she had you in before you left. It's important that you don't allow her to pull you down to her level, as you can see that is a challenge. However, it's important to remember that you ARE living under HER roof and in that you are at the mercy of how she prefers to run HER home and territory. This is why children choose to move away from home so they get to have their OWN territory.

[astoldbyginger]

Originally Posted by Travelinglady

Hi, astoldbyginger, and welcome to Psych Central! You say some of her behavior is cultural. I think by American standards she'd be considered "toxic"-emotionally abusing. I don't think she'd change, even if you pointed that out, so, yes, it's up to you to get on with your life and try not to worry about pleasing her. Sad, but....

Hi Travelinglady, thanks a lot for the welcome! I agree with you that her changing is not gonna happen. We've all spoken to her about it for years and there is no acceptance. Getting on is the only choice I have at this point, luckily since I have been back from school I don't feel compelled to please her as I did when I was younger, but I do try in my best capacity to keep her happy (which I read earlier today is unhealthy).

[astoldbyginger]

Originally Posted by Open Eyes

Hi astoldbyginger, welcome to PC. I think that what your mother is showing you in her behavior patterns towards you the most is how she learned to communicate which as you are seeing now that you have gotten an education and spent time away from her is that she has poor communication skills.

The kind of behavior your mother is exhibiting can actually be considered normal in some cultures too. Going abroad and experiencing a different culture and at the same time getting an education can really be an eye opener, especially when you go back home and see the culture you grew up in in a different light and how that might be constricting in ways you may not have realized before. Your mother sounds like she has some immature patterns of behavior that you can see about her now. This doesn't mean YOU are not worthy of respect, it means she doesn't know how to communicate with you on any different level. It can be a challenge to move back to live with a parent again after being away and maturing, often a parent continues to put the child in a role they unknowingly put that child in when this child is really no longer a child. It sounds like your mother got you playing the old loop she had you in before you left. It's important that you don't allow her to pull you down to her level, as you can see that is a challenge. However, it's important to remember that you ARE living under HER roof and in that you are at the mercy of how she prefers to run HER home and territory. This is why children choose to move away from home so they get to have their OWN territory.

Hi Open eyes, thank you for the welcome! What you said in your first paragraph is exactly right. A few months ago I was talking to my mother and asked her why it was she would yell at us so much, especially when we were kids and she said it was because she grew up in a house where everyone yelled and she took it with her. Her poor communication skills is something my siblings and I have discussed a lot as well.

I agree with you that that kind of behaviour is normalized in some cultures - and I don't think it's right, especially when boundaries are crossed. It isn't effective and causes lots of people to grow into broken adults with resentment towards their parents. (Not so ironically my mother also resents her own mother) I am just disappointed that she imitated some of the behaviour, however it is all said and done already. And like you said, this is all things I have come to terms with as an adult, post living abroad.

I'm going to work towards creating some physical distance as I do know it's best. And you are correct that I am technically living under her roof. The thing is now and even before I left for school the bills are split, just that now, they are split between just two of us, so I am not just leeching off my mother. I've already experienced having my own territory and it is the best environment for me at this stage in my life, so I will need to get back into that. Thanks for helping me realize that <3 .

[Open Eyes]

astoldbyginger, it is human nature to develop according to what one is exposed to. What can help you is to think about how human beings are born with the built in desire to navigate. If you think about a map for example, human beings have made maps for hundreds of years. We certainly have a lot of maps drawn out on what once was a blank piece of paper. The human brain works just like a map and if you observe your mother's behavior patterns, she is showing you the map she was taught to follow. She was taught from a map her own mother taught her which she has even admitted to you when she says "my mother did the same". The human brain is designed to create a map in such a fashion that a human being can function in a routine without having to constantly think about every detail when it comes to functioning and navigating through every day life. The human mind is designed where when a person does the same thing over and over again they get so they can do it without having to put a lot of thought into it. Human beings like structure because it's predictable and feels safe and comforting for the most part.

When I was raising my daughter I made time to sit and read to her every day. Most children develop a favorite story and will ask the parent to read that book over and over again. My daughter was no exception and because I read this same book to her so many times, I never forgot the name of that book, "Panda Bear's Paint Box". My daughter who was only about two got so she knew everything that was written on each page. I thought she was actually reading, but she wasn't, instead she got so she memorized each page. I would read other books to her too, but, she always liked me to finish my reading with her by reading that particular book too. What she was displaying in that was how repetition can be comforting, knowing what to expect can be comforting. AND, sitting with me and having companionship at the same time where both were reading and talking about the same story is also "comforting". That alone can be the very basic beginning of a kind of cultural development which is something human beings like to develop.

So I always read pretty much every night to my daughter and what that did for her was it gave her new things to think about that added to her own beginning of developing her own little mental map. I used to go to the library with her and we would pick out new stories to read that became our own way of having a new adventure together. One day I came across a book that I loved as a child called "The Box Car Children". I brought that book home, lit a fire in our fireplace as I had done that a lot (ironically that is something human beings love to do that is part of our human history), and I sat and read this story and to my surprise we sat and read this entire book in one night and my daughter actually was able to pay attention to that entire book, and that is a big deal as children notoriously can have short attention spans. But all that reading taught her how to pay attention for longer periods of time.

This particular book is about two children a boy and a girl who became orphans and they did not want to be separated so they ran away and in their travels ended up finding an old abandoned box car from a train sitting in the woods and forgotten. So, these children began to clean that box car out and make it into their own little home. This box car was near a little stream and they also built a place to have a fire and cook and the other thing they did was they found a dump and would visit that dump to find things they could use for their new home like old dishes and utensils and pots and pans. The boy would go out and do odd jobs so he could make a little money to buy food that he could bring home for meals. And these children slowly got so no one knew they were orphans and had this secret place they made and called "home".

After I read this story to my daughter I watched her play outside and she began "pretending" that she was one of these children and she set up her own little imaginary version of what she listened to in that story. If she had a little friend come over to play, she introduced this friend to playing along with this "adventure" she learned to have too.
What I shared with her by reading that story to her, she learned to do with other children who began to enjoy the adventure "with" her. As she did that, it created a map in her own mind about how to SHARE an adventure and idea with another person and enjoy playing this game "together". This is how the seeds of a culture begins with human beings.

If you really sit and read about human history and religion with an open mind, you will learn how human beings slowly took a story they heard or read and began to slowly use different parts of these stories to gradually form what they began calling "religion". What was important about that one story that I read and shared with my daughter was the element of how these children wanted to stay together and manage even though they were orphans. This desire is the very foundation of how human beings actually are, wanting to design a mental map that includes a way of FEELING loved and nurtured and comforted that can provide a way to have a "togetherness" with others.

When you left and went out on your own to learn more and read more books with new stories and ideas and ways of thinking about things, you actually began to learn MORE ways to add to the map you had developed from where you grew up. What you also learned about yourself while doing this is that you are actually pretty good at learning and adapting yourself and considering this new knowledge you have been exposed to. You also developed (like my daughter did when she heard that story) a desire to use these new ideas to practice creating your own way of playing with these ideas that you can create your own life experience with.

Well, what you are experiencing now that you are back in your mother's world, is that she is still playing by the story and structures she was exposed to and learned how to live her life around. This is something that happens a lot when it comes to a child that leaves home and is exposed to new ways to think about information that can "add" to one's personal mental map. Often, it doesn't really matter where one's origins happens to be in that if a child leaves and is exposed to new things, that can become a kind of threat to the parent or family that used a certain map to navigate their own lifestyle with. However astoldbyginger, as you live your life you will begin to realize this is something that is very much a part of human nature itself and it happens in pretty much all of humanity where ever a "structure" is set up.

The thing about human beings is how once a human being engages in doing something or depending on something that becomes something strong in their mental map, if that is threatened or taken away, it can be VERY upsetting. For example, if a person is given a telephone and that telephone becomes something they use a lot, if that person suddenly loses that telephone they can get very upset and even angry until they get that telephone back. We are learning how this also happens when a person is handed their own cell phone where they begin using it constantly and if it's lost or taken away that individual panics and gets very uncomfortable and angry. Anything a human being becomes "dependent on" where they live a certain way based on a certain kind of structure, they can become very stressed, angry and threatened and even can become very destructive and hateful no matter what color they are or what culture they live in.

What you are experiencing in your mother's behavior where she can have these tantrums and say mean things to you is a reflection of her feeling threatened and what she learned to do in exhibiting behaviors to defend her own personal mental map that she is used to living by. She learned these behaviors from her mother and has even admitted that on a certain level to you.

If you are the last one home and you end up staying for a length of time where your mother becomes dependent on you and gets used to that, she will become more and more dependent on you in a way that will make it much harder for her to live her life without having YOU and whatever you contribute that she LEARNS to depend on. This is how HUMAN BEINGS are designed BY NATURE. So, while you have been considering living with your mother so you can get money saved so you can become more independent you have to sit and consider the consequences of don't that in considering how you may unknowingly get your mother used to depending on you where when you want to actually break away, she will have a very hard time RELEARNING how to actually be independent and live on her own without you. Also, what you are seeing about your mother is what it is like to live with her and how she has grown to believe that she has a right to be the BOSS in her environment simply because that is what she was for many years.

[astoldbyginger]

Very interesting Open Eyes. Thanks for being so illustrative. I don't doubt that she is used to her own map and does not like feeling threatened by the new. This is even more clearly seen in ways you do not even know, that I have not mentioned here. It can also apply to things outside of issues with my mom like being back home in general. Thanks again for such a thorough response!

Yes, I agree with other posters here that what she has and is doing is very toxic and also verbally and emotionally abusive. I also agree that you can get your siblings to help out so as not to carry the burden all by yourself. Also, it is not your job to keep her happy. I understand this may be a defense tactic to probably avoid her abuse, but you're right in identifying that it is not healthy for you.

I think your best bet is to free yourself and live on your own again, away from your mom. You can still visit her once in a while to help out, but you don't have to live under the same roof. This will be best for you and healthiest for you all around, as you learned being on your own at uni. And good for you for having escaped and for sticking to your guns about that!

You clearly have a good handle on how her behavior impacts you negatively and how that is internalized. Now you just need to escape again!!! Here's to your mental health and happiness. Be well. (((((((hugs)))))))

[seesaw]

There may be some cultural tradition here, but I think any mother who tears their child down instead of building them up is probably toxic.

[astoldbyginger]

Originally Posted by golden_eve

Yes, I agree with other posters here that what she has and is doing is very toxic and also verbally and emotionally abusive. I also agree that you can get your siblings to help out so as not to carry the burden all by yourself. Also, it is not your job to keep her happy. I understand this may be a defense tactic to probably avoid her abuse, but you're right in identifying that it is not healthy for you.

I think your best bet is to free yourself and live on your own again, away from your mom. You can still visit her once in a while to help out, but you don't have to live under the same roof. This will be best for you and healthiest for you all around, as you learned being on your own at uni. And good for you for having escaped and for sticking to your guns about that!

You clearly have a good handle on how her behavior impacts you negatively and how that is internalized. Now you just need to escape again!!! Here's to your mental health and happiness. Be well. (((((((hugs)))))))

Thanks Golden_eve. Really appreciate your kind words. Yes, it is time for me to get a move on with things. Interestingly, ever since I have expressed myself on here, and gotten this out, the chemistry at the house has changed. This is the first time I have opened up about this to anyone outside my family. I think me setting my energy towards mentally and physically creating distance has somehow translated to us being cordial with one another, but I think she can also feel the shift too. It'll be an interesting end to 2017.

[astoldbyginger]

Originally Posted by seesaw

There may be some cultural tradition here, but I think any mother who tears their child down instead of building them up is probably toxic.

I have noticed in recent years that more people are starting to address the abuse that has been normalized in our culture (mostly physical, in some capacity mental but not as much, hopefully this will change). I just pray I do not in any way behave like this with my children. No parent is perfect, but I don't want me children to feel like I have hindered them more than I've helped them.

Originally Posted by astoldbyginger

Thanks Golden_eve. Really appreciate your kind words. Yes, it is time for me to get a move on with things. Interestingly, ever since I have expressed myself on here, and gotten this out, the chemistry at the house has changed. This is the first time I have opened up about this to anyone outside my family. I think me setting my energy towards mentally and physically creating distance has somehow translated to us being cordial with one another, but I think she can also feel the shift too. It'll be an interesting end to 2017.

YES... once you set your mind to a new direction, things can shift in that direction. I believe in the power of energy myself.