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#1
Oct 04, 2020, 04:38 PM
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My significant other's niece posted a racist meme on her own facebook wall. The language was mocking towards black people. It was the second time - a month ago she posted a meme that expressed "whataboutism." I was not the only person who commented on that - a family friend said something too. So, I reported this niece to FB for hate speech and told her so. She decided to sic her mother on me - by having her email my s/o. This woman is in her 30's and has children. When is she growing to grow up?
I then posted my response, which was quite a bit more reasonable than the niece's, (she told me to **** off), and blocked the whole family. So I guess I have lingering upset, over not getting to respond ( except that her friends will see it), and I'm also feeling ambivalent because my s/o tells me it's getting hard for him to focus on their good side, and he thinks that not talking about it will help him do that. I don't really blame him, they are his family, but I'm not thrilled about it either. His sister emailed him and asked why I'm picking on her daughter, and he just told her that I will stop. They are completely in denial and willful ignorance about it. He thinks the same way I do about racism, but he would not say anything in my defense, and will not say anything to them about it. There are worse things one can encounter in a relationship, but I'm still ambivalent about this one. |
 *Beth*, Anonymous49105, unaluna
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#2
Oct 05, 2020, 02:02 AM
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Unfollow your niece, and take no further interest in what she posts on Facebook.
Find constructive ways to express your own ideals and concerns. Volunteer to help a political campaign or some other organization that promotes the principles you believe in. Your boyfriend is absolutely correct in refusing to get involved in this feud. |
 *Beth*, Bill3, lizardlady, Molinit, unaluna
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#3
Oct 05, 2020, 02:48 AM
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1. Unfollow your niece, and take no further interest in what she posts on Facebook.
Did you notice that I said I did "unfollow" her? 2. Find constructive ways to express your own ideals and concerns. Volunteer to help a political campaign or some other organization that promotes the principles you believe in. Thank you, I have. Why assume that I have not? 3. Your boyfriend is absolutely correct in refusing to get involved in this feud. Actually, he did. Imo, he should have told his sister to tell his niece to deal with me directly if she has a problem with me, and NOT get her mother to tell her uncle to control me. Seems to me that would have been healthier. Over protectiveness (by the mother) is a sign of toxicity. So I have a request: I appreciate feedback, that is why I posted this. Please also read before judging . Thank you. |
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#4
Oct 10, 2020, 09:08 PM
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Hm. I don't think there's a cut and dry response here but I'll do my best.
I have family who (as far as I know) do not post racist things but are opposed to me politically. I have had similar strife about political matters with them. The best thing to do with them (in my scenario) is to ignore it. I don't get involved in Facebook debates anymore, and I know if I did, I would probably be right, but I don't do it. It affects my mental health negatively to get in fights with people about stuff. However, if you feel like this is going too far, perhaps you could have an offline discussion with your significant other about how this is making you feel. I don't know if you think that would be possible or not, but it seems like this is affecting you significantly. Then, perhaps if this discussion with your significant other goes well (or at least is constructive), then you will have a plan as to how to approach this in the future.
__________________
"Whatever you can do, or dream you can, begin it. Boldness has genius, power, and magic in it!” |
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#5
Oct 11, 2020, 03:06 AM
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I'm not sure where I'm going with this so bear with me. Tolerance of racism is acceptance of racism and frankly encouragement of it. If your SO cant stand with you on this, there is a problem.
However, I would also say that if you don't have the energy to calmly educate and interact with his niece through social media in response to her racist posts, then it's fine to just ignore it. It's also fine to keep your contact limited with her. And by ignore it, I actually mean blocking her, not just unfollowing. I believe that you have to show you will not tolerate racism and by blocking her you will be doing so. If the family has a problem you can simply say "Niece posts racist things and I dont want to see that so I've blocked her. If she wants to reconsider what she posts then maybe we can interact on social media again. But just as she is free to post, I am free to keep my feed free from racism." You can't fix everyone's messed up thinking. Some people have to be dragged along kicking and screaming.
__________________
 What if I fall? Oh, my dear, but what if you fly? Primary Dx: C-PTSD and Severe Chronic Treatment Resistant Major Depressive Disorder Secondary Dx: Generalized Anxiety Disorder with mild Agoraphobia. Meds I've tried: Prozac, Zoloft, Celexa, Effexor, Remeron, Elavil, Wellbutrin, Risperidone, Abilify, Prazosin, Paxil, Trazadone, Tramadol, Topomax, Xanax, Propranolol, Valium, Visteril, Vraylar, Selinor, Clonopin, Ambien Treatments I've done: CBT, DBT, Transcranial Magnetic Stimulation (TMS), Talk therapy, psychotherapy, exercise, diet, sleeping more, sleeping less... |
| *Beth*, Open Eyes
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#6
Oct 11, 2020, 03:17 AM
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You can't ask for opinions or feedback and then when you don't like what somebody says say they are judging with that they are wrong or they don't understand you.
__________________
"I carried a watermelon?" President of the no F's given society. |
| Bill3, lizardlady, Rose76
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#7
Nov 12, 2020, 11:48 AM
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#8
Nov 12, 2020, 03:02 PM
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Seriously?
__________________
"I carried a watermelon?" President of the no F's given society. |
| *Beth*
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#9
Nov 12, 2020, 07:08 PM
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| *Beth*
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#11
Nov 12, 2020, 10:37 PM
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Why do you think anybody is judging? You asked for feedback and someone gave you Good feedback and exactly what you were asking for feedback on. You can't ask for opinions or feedback and then when you don't like what somebody says say they are judging with that they are wrong or they don't understand you.[/QUOTE] Hey SarahSweets, I have a different opinion: The OP felt judged and presumed about and they are allowed to feel that way and there's nothing wrong about that, imo. We can certainly ask for advice and opinions and support, and also not like what is said in response, and its ok to express that, like the OP did. No, the OP did not express it in a way that was pleasant for all. Maybe it was not pleasant for you.  it may be where the poster is at. Fwiw, I don't like it when ppl jump down my throat either.
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| sarahsweets
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#12
Nov 13, 2020, 02:15 AM
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To be honest I’d just avoid her. The only way to end racism is making people see why it is offensive and teaching them. But if they arent willing to tune in to what you have to say and only stir up more drama then cut them off. It’s not worth it. Theyre entitled to their opinions like you are to yours. And depending on your situation id have a serious talk with your partner as well just so theres no misunderstandings about what makes you uncomfortable or them uncomfortable etc.
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#13
Nov 13, 2020, 12:59 PM
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@zatakar
There is a reason I asked you how old your niece is, given the age of her mother she must still be very young yet. I spent years teaching young children how to ride ponies and horses and as I did that I worked on different things with these children. I did that individually so I could focus on each child according to how they navigate and where their personal weak areas are as a child. And they were all different so I would sit and plan my lessons according to each one of them so I could focus on whatever they needed help with personally and it was not just about the riding either, that was more of an activity I could use as a tool to teach several things. I trained ponies and horses too and not only did these ponies and horses need to be taught how to do the simplest things like being led and behaving but what it means to have a rider on them and how to understand what the rider wants them to do. Like the children I taught, these ponies and horses all had different personalities and weaknesses and strengths and fears and insecurities and some learned faster than others too. My daughter also loved ponies and horses and had a talent for being able to ride and people in that field would see her ride and say "she is gifted and you must keep her riding". As some of the children grew in their ability and could ride and understand how the pony and horse was learning at the same time, some of these riders would help me work on training. This is what my daughter helped with and did as well. The theme of my little farm was that of getting riders to understand that when they gained skills that did not mean they became THE STAR RIDER like other barns that taught and even showed and competed with horses and ponies. At some barns the riders that show and do well and "win" develop an idea that they are "special" and above other riders. Even the trainers encouraged this and would even compete with other trainers "bet my star rider can beat your star rider" mindset. Sadly, even the parents began to see it this way as well. And then what made it even worse is how these parents behaved. It was just awful how they fed off of their own child being the so called "star rider". And how anyone that threatened that status would become a problem. In fact at one riding/training/show stable two mothers got so threatened that they ended up having a literal fight in one of the horse wash stalls with each other in front of all the riders and their own children over who's child was "the star rider". I loved the horses and ponies and I loved the children I was teaching no matter how well they rode because I worked with them to overcome fears, to notice how they are gaining on their skills, and to get excited about how they were gaining and progressing to me they were all "stars". I also taught to RESPECT the animal that was helping them do all these things that made them feel good about themselves too. I wanted the children to understand and appreciate all that animal they were riding had to learn, had to trust, had to develop patience for and learn to understand and respect them as they were struggling to learn to ride. It was teaching SELF AWARENESS and AWARENESS OF OTHERS. As I mentioned, my daughter was gifted when it came to riding ponies and horses and she could ride horses and ponies that did not have a lot of training and needed extra guidance from the rider to be patient and ride them through different things they may be afraid to do or be confused about. I could not afford to go out and buy a horse that was already trained to the point my daughter could ride it and it already knew what was expected. So, my daughter had to be extra good at riding and often she competed against other riders at the show competitions that were riding horses that were so well trained they were basically push button and the rider did not have to think about all the things my daughter had to think about when riding. I did not have the money to go out and buy a horse or pony that had someone spend five years or more training into a machine that would do things even when the rider failed to know how to do things. I was not a parent that could afford to put my child on an animal that already KNEW how to be A WINNER. The parents that did have the money often spent HUGE sums of money on a horse or pony, sums that were mindboggling to the average person not knowing much about horses and ponies and this area of competition. I walked around this environment my daughter wanted to engage in with this message in my mind of how gifted she was and began talking to others with children and different ponies and horses. I would hear things like "I got this one at a good price, it was only $70,000 and that child's pony that she is riding cost $100,000 dollars. Well, I did not have that kind of money to spend and also pay for training and the show fees. Instead I worked pretty much 7 days a week doing everything, much on my own too. I was the groom, the trainer, the one who cleaned all the stalls and paddocks and fed all that I had and taught and scheduled jobs and lessons. I worked from early morning to late at night pretty much every day all year round. I built up my own business so I could "keep my daughter riding" as she really had a lot of natural talent. I remember all the things we had to do in order to get my daughter in that show ring, all the time she put into so many things just to be there to compete. She did everything herself and me or my husband would often go to help her and watch her both knowing the tremendous amount of work she invested. Then, at a show a mercedes would drive up, a girl got out all dressed in riding clothes that are top of the line, She expects her horse to be brought to her all braided and brushed and saddled up and already warmed up by the groom so it's ready for her. She gets on her horse that I learned cost $250,000 and goes over to the the show riding ring getting ready to compete and goes in and rides that horse around the course pretty much like the horse is a limo driver, and then she wins and she gets off her horse, hands it to the groom and doesn't even get her winning ribbon and she gets in her mercedes and leaves. I remember explaining to my daughter how this girl would not even get the horse my daughter was riding around that course, she would fail miserably and face total embarrassment at how poor her riding skills actually were. Yet, this girl is "the star rider" and expects to be treated as such. And it never really means she is actually "better". The other thing I did besides teaching was I trained my ponies to learn how to go out to all different environments and I dressed them up and did private pony birthday parties and other special gatherings and even very special jobs for extremely ill children. Every place I go, every environment are different people who often know NOTHING about what it means to do what I do, I have to make sure whatever pony I bring into whatever environment FEELS SAFE. I am TRAINING constantly and I have a pattern each pony learns so they know what to expect so they learn to trust and know what I need and can feel safe. I get a pony to understand and can handle so many things that go on around them that I can actually hand that pony to someone else knowing that pony can babysit that handler just the way that horse babysat that rider who got out of the mercedes and had everyone else do for her and she went into that ring and competed and won because the horse was so well trained it was push button FOR HER. I can get a young student or family member to help me and while they are handling the push button, I am handling the one that is learning and is still unpredictable because this new one has to get used to seeing and hearing so many things it's not used to and learning how to feel safe and be calm. AND they can see the other pony that is calm and that too is a comfort. Also, my daughter helped me at times because she was learning training and she too had to learn to understood RESPECT and PATIENCE. Also, my pony had to learn to understand calm and gentle because often my pony would have to be good for a rider with extreme handicaps or challenges like autism where they would make noises and act out in different ways. Also be good for children that were paralyzed and the pony had to be ok with the parents on either side rubbing up against them as they held their child up on the pony after taking that child out of a wheelchair. When I work a day I often do more than one job/party/event. I can do a job at a home of very upper class wealthy people and then leave that group and literally head for my next job in the projects. Then, I can head to a third job where I am servicing a group of children at an event that all have challenges with autism and the parents get together that all have challenged children where their children can exhibit all kinds of behaviors that many do not understand. If they get together, they don't have to face the challenge of embarrassment of the odd behaviors and instead they can just focus on their child's special needs and help them enjoy in whatever way they can enjoy. When I work and do jobs many of these people have NO IDEA the amount of time and work I put into what they are experiencing and seeing. Many think what I do is EASY and that anyone can grab any pony and JUST do what I do. The people at these different events as well as the children have NO IDEA the amount of time "YEARS" that can go into what they are enjoying and seeing me do. The things people think NEVER cease to amaze me. Like a weathy woman coming up to me and telling me (like I am a servant) to go over to her elderly father who loves horses and let him ride my SMALL PONY. I really thought she was joking and I laughed and just waved at the elderly man and kept interacting with the children. Well, this woman suddenly came up to me VERY ANGRY and said "excuse me but I TOLD YOU TO GO OVER AND GIVE MY ELDERLY FATHER A RIDE, NOW GO DO IT NOW!!!". The man was about six feet tall and could barely walk and was 90. My pony was just a small pony for CHILDREN. Well, clearly this wealthy well educated professional entitled woman was literally SERIOUS and angry. I had someone with me helping me that too was treated like a servant who was failing to take an order. Now, children are also seeing this woman's behavior in fact several people saw it and thought I was failing to please this entitled woman. I could have gotten angry and reacted badly with this experience. HOWEVER, I had to handle this, as hard as it was, PROFESSIONALLY. As the business owner, it was part of what I had to learn and be prepared to handle "difficult people" and at the same time show my helper how to react. So, I did walk over to this man CALMLY and he was delighted to see my pony up close. I looked at him and said, "I understand you love horses and even rode when you were younger", this elderly man replied with delight of his fond memories. I then said to him, "I wish I had a bigger animal that was able to carry your weight and size so you would enjoy how it felt too" and he smiled and said yes. Then he said, "I know your pony is much too small and I am much too old now, but it's nice to see your pony up close and to be able to touch your pony too". This angry woman was standing nearby and got to see her father "who's birthday it was" get to enjoy seeing the pony and experience the memory and the touch. Yet she also learned from her own elderly father that HE WAS MUCH TOO BIG TO RIDE MY PONY. Hopefully, this woman got to LEARN something about herself. And what she got to learn was NOT by my reacting to her ignorance with anger, but to let her see her own ignorance level without saying anything at all directly to her. Now, IN THAT SAME VAIN I have also had negative experiences that are SIMILAR from people of color. And it's not something that can happen only in one certain class OR color either. In fact, it has also happened in people of BOTH political preferences as well. Because the TRUTH is that ill mannered, rude people can come in ANY color, ANY educational level, ANY political orientation, ANY religious background and ANY class. I had a young working student in her early teens that had riding ability and was very petite. I met her at a function and asked her if she would like to train with me and help me. She had been riding in a stable that had this "star rider" mentality and her parents could not afford to buy her a pony or horse. She had been treated badly and even bullied by other riders in this stable, something I had seen happen many times. She came and trained and worked with me, and at that time I needed help because my neighbor's dog destroyed and crippled the ponies and horses I had that I spent YEARS training. It was so bad and I was so overwhelmed, I developed a condition called ptsd. Well, this young teen began helping me and both me and my daughter worked with her. Then I had another student I had taught come ride too. To my surprise this young teen began feeling threatened and began treating my other student the way she had been treated at the other stable she had spent time at. She had thought SHE was going to be MY star rider like what she witnessed at this other stable. SO, I had to sit and talk to her about how MY stable works and explain to her how what she learned at this other stable WAS WRONG. I explained to her that at my farm there is no such thing as a "star rider", that at my farm what is expected is that what you gain in skills and ability is to be shared with others so they can learn HEALTHY horsemanship too. At my farm when you get better YOU SHARE so others can get better too. This young teen also went out with me where she learned how to work different jobs with all different kinds of people. This took place when Obama was president. And this young teen went with me to do a job where the clients were all African American. She did not have any experience with this or was exposed to this either. UNFORTUNATELY, an African American woman came over with her own child that was a teenager and demanded that her teenager ride my small pony. I very politely explained to this woman that her teenager was too big and that I am sorry I can't accomodate her. To my shock this woman got right in my face and said very loudly and angry looking me up and down "Well, NOW with Obama we black people have POWER and YOU white people are going to PAY and SUFFER!!!". Unfortunately, none of the other African American individuals stopped this woman or made any effort to help me deal with this behavior. It was all I could do to defuse this situation and get paid and leave. This young girl was visibly frightened and was starting to cry. And I cleared this account and loaded my ponies up and headed home and the entire time I was driving home this young teenage girl was shaking and crying. And I had to explain to her that this is not something ALL African American people do. Yet, I also knew that this young teen was so shaken and frightened that she would not go anywhere near this kind of account again. Truth is @zatakar often it's not so much racism or that someone is racist but more that someone feels HATE or discomfort and genuine fear for the behavior itself. I am white and when Obama was president I did come across this kind of behavior towards me where anger towards me from SOME individuals was due to my color and that was a new challenge I faced that mentioned Obama. And that was actually harder due to the fact that at the same time I was also struggling with ptsd. I actually was challenged by a group of African Americans that circled around me who did not want to pay me and I was alone in that circle and YES I felt frightened and I did end up crying myself due to how that experience triggered the ptsd I was now so badly challenged by. Racism can go both ways I experienced it first hand. In all the years I serviced different groups of Afican Americans, I never had any problem with this particular challenge. But what I do know is rude and disrespectful people most definitely come in all colors, classes, and political preferences. It's very possible that what you were looking at with this "niece" isn't so much racism but the fear and hate of this thing called racism. I saw that in that young fourteen year old that I had with me learning how to work with different groups of people. Unfortunately, one individual behaved so badly that it traumatized her enough to develop a deep discomfort around this color person. And I did try to explain to her how this is not what all African Americans are like. Yet, I seriously doubt that had much affect on her considering what she experienced and how much it frightened her and her age and lack of experience. The other thing that bothers me personally tbh is the response of "it's wrong and wrong to JUST tolerate it" too. I have that problem given my age and knowing the many things said by an individual/individuals that have been racist even recently that ARE BEING tolerated and dismissed and this individual/individuals NEVER actually says anything about all the things they said that were in fact VERY RACIST. Oh I could quote these things too yet the response will be a negative blowback that quite honestly comes across as very hypocritical. Given that this niece is probably young my guess is she is also engaging more in the overall discomfort with the entire problem that Racism presents that does go both ways and ends up turning into a "ALL X'S ARE BAD" scenario. And quite honestly this is very hard for any young mind to really understand. Just as was the case that I myself encountered with my 14 year old working student. One thing I do know is in reality there are bad, mean, rude disrespectful and even scary people in "ALL THE X'S". And there are good people too in all the "X's". Lashing out in anger doesn't do anything to solve this challenge. Unfortunately, this has been a huge problem for quite some time. I myself have experienced it first hand. It's hard when someone of any color is threatening and angry. How being white can be something bad to someone of color because of what other bad white people said and did. Color is not what means bad in either case, because bad literally does come in every color, race, religion and political preference. Last edited by Open Eyes; Nov 13, 2020 at 04:22 PM. |
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#14
Nov 13, 2020, 03:39 PM
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I do not have the time to break down and address parts of your posts but they are ridiculous. I can’t even believe you mention Obama as if that played any part in what happened. This is typical of people who do not believe racism against people of color exists. The first thing they do to justify it is bring up a black friend or some isolated one off example of one thing that happened to a white person. Maybe three things happened to a white person. I guarantee it is NOTHING COMPARED to actual racism, bias, cultural appropriation, stigma, bigotry, disenfranchisement and actual violence because of their ethnicity or skin color.
__________________
"I carried a watermelon?" President of the no F's given society. |
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#15
Nov 13, 2020, 04:02 PM
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Also, I did not say ANYTHING about people who do not believe racism against people of color exists. I am also sharing my concern about her nieces age because of the age of my student. I never said racism, stigma,bigotry, disenfranchisement and actual violence due to ethnicity or skin color doesn't exist. I know it exists because I was the only one that would go into the projects that consisted of many big brick buildings with many African Americans probably a couple thousand individuals. |
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#16
Nov 13, 2020, 04:17 PM
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Having unpleasant experience with some rude person regardless of their skin color is not the same as systematic racism and discrimination against the entire group of people. It’s not even in the same category. Being poor and unable to buy something while others can isn’t in the same category as racism and discrimination against African-Americans, Latino, anti-semitism etc Let’s not downplay racism.
Claiming that there is a discrimination against whites in the US because someone said something to someone is so uncalled for. And why bringing up Obama again? That’s uncalled for. The person came here upset about racism. Let’s not tell her that it goes both ways. By this logic people have rights to be bigots and racists because they are afraid of other people. Xenophobia and lack of knowledge is no excuse for racism and bigotry In 2020 people have plenty of opportunities to educate themselves and get familiar with the topic. Not knowing what’s what or being afraid was an excuse in the past. Not a valid excuse anymore. Time to get on with a program. Let’s move from old backwards times |
| sarahsweets
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#17
Nov 13, 2020, 04:20 PM
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Zatakar I am sorry you have to deal with it. Racism is still very common and very real. Hugs
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#18
Nov 13, 2020, 04:41 PM
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I was thinking more of the age and how impressionble a young teen can be. If the parent is only 30 the child must be pretty young yet. That's what I was focusing on, how impressionable a young teen/individual can be. I gave an example of how a young teen can pick up on bad behavior and repeat it thinking the behavior is ok or normal when it's not. You can get angry and report her and respond negatively, or you can see it and find a way to explain why the behavior is bad and what she thinks is normal or right isn't. Last edited by Open Eyes; Nov 13, 2020 at 05:00 PM. |
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#19
Nov 13, 2020, 04:55 PM
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On a biological level racism is unwise because it threatens the viability of human existence.
On a social and ethical level, racism is ignorant. From a moral perspective, racism is just plain wrong. If someone is racist and not willing to educate themselves to become a more evolved person I would avoid them. Oftentimes in life, we are known by the company we keep. In addition, I believe we know, within our souls, what the best choice is.
__________________
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| divine1966
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#20
Nov 13, 2020, 05:11 PM
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@BethRags, I see what you are saying in your list and I agree. However what I focused on was the young niece who clearly is still ignorant and at an impressionable age. The OP has not even returned to her thread, so my question was not even answered as I wanted to focus on the niece and how she is most likely impressionable and pretty young yet. My mindset pretty much focused on a young teen seeing bad behavior and being imprinted the wrong way and trying to have a conversation that can educate in a way that age can understand dispite what their own parents or other adults say and behave like.
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| *Beth*
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#21
Nov 13, 2020, 05:16 PM
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| *Beth*, lizardlady
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#22
Nov 13, 2020, 05:26 PM
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Your standing up against racism is a right way to help minimize the practice of people being racist. Your SO feels the same way about it as you, but he also doesn’t want drama and to feel bad about his family. So your dropping it is good for your relationship.
Do you see these relatives often in person? I hope it doesn’t get into an argument and sever your family relationship. Maybe one day you can calmly educate them? If that’s not possible, maybe you can quickly change the subject saying something like, “That’s racist and I won’t tolerate it spoken around me”, and IDK what would happen. Not long ago, people would sometimes make a politically incorrect comment (not to minimize those comments at all), but mostly they would be ignored or told to knock it off, not encouraged. Right now, an issue like racism, is not blatantly exhibited among good people in any way at all. You may want to question what kind of people your SO’s family is and question if you want to be associated. Is he really like them? Why isn’t he setting them straight?
__________________
"And don't say it hasn't been a little slice of heaven, 'cause it hasn't!" . About Me--T |
| divine1966
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#23
Nov 13, 2020, 05:26 PM
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I don’t see where OP came here stating that all whites are racists. Or anyone for that matter. She was talking about a specific person being racist. Responses were about how to handle a racist. Then it became about how to justify racism and how some people are racists because they are scared of blacks or stories how blacks mistreated whites during Obama’s presidency. Perhaps that’s why OP won’t come back. Justifying racism is not cool. Just isn’t. Let’s not go there
Yes it often comes from fear and ignorance. Not good enough reason. Ignorance is not a bliss |
| sarahsweets
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| *Beth*, sarahsweets
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#24
Nov 13, 2020, 05:29 PM
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I entirely agree with you, OE. I didn't realize the niece was so young. A sad situation...hopefully niece will take a different road.
__________________
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| Open Eyes
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#25
Nov 13, 2020, 05:32 PM
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I agree. I guess when I use the term "ignorance" I mean that someone who is ignorant can (hopefully) be educated.
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