[Rose76]

I got the COVID booster shot some weeks ago. I also got a pneumonia vaccine. I try to keep up with being as protected as I can be. I call that being responsible.

A friend of mine was taking COVID seriously most of the past year. She got the first two shots. We have hung out a good bit until recently. Both of us live alone and have been cautious about where we go. I felt she was a reasonably safe person to be around. Now, however, she has had a change of views and I have been avoiding her.

She shows no interest in getting the booster shot. She knows someone who practices "alternative" medicine (not a doctor.) This person advised her not to get the booster shot. On top of blowing off the booster, she told me she's been thinking about making a trip to a casino. She misses playing the slots, which was a favorite pastime of hers prior to COVID. What she does is her business, but I don't want to chance getting COVID from someone who is less cautious than I am.

For a while I found excuses to avoid doing things with her. Ten days ago, I told her on the phone that I would be secluding myself more than I had been doing, due to the COVID surge. She got kind of brusque and sounded annoyed ending the call. I haven't heard from her since.

Normally she calls me a lot. I was used to hearing from her every other day. She gets bored a lot and likes frequent long phone conversations. I find plenty to keep me busy, but I would interrupt whatever I was doing to make time for her. In a way, I'm not sorry to have the frequent phone calls stop. I am a bit dismayed that she seems to have ghosted me over our having different views on the COVID booster shot.

I'm not sure what to do now. If she had gotten the shot, I would have gotten together with her to do some holiday things. I would have invited her to come by for dinner on Christmas. (I like to cook. She doesn't.) I feel like the ball's in her court. She's got a history of abruptly absenting herself from contact with a friend and, then, suddenly reappearing after quite an interval. (She's done this with others besides me.) Something about this behavior really has me disturbed.

That kind of rollercoaster (there then gone, there then gone - close then not close, etc) disturbs me too. (I know someone like this who I'm in a lull with on that roller coaster).

You say you're not sure what to do now. Do you mean for the holidays? Or with the friendship? Either way, I understand how difficult it can be to have a person be there and then not. For the holidays, maybe you can plan something special to do, just for you.

[Rose76]

Originally Posted by WovenGalaxy

That kind of rollercoaster (there then gone, there then gone - close then not close, etc) disturbs me too. (I know someone like this who I'm in a lull with on that roller coaster).

You say you're not sure what to do now. Do you mean for the holidays? Or with the friendship? Either way, I understand how difficult it can be to have a person be there and then not. For the holidays, maybe you can plan something special to do, just for you.

Hi W.G. Thanks for understanding. It becomes a case of such extremes. When I'm on her friend list, she practically wants to move in with me. Honestly, she gets more than a bit clingy. Then, when I've fallen out of favor with her, literally months can go by where I hear nothing from her. I've taken this roller coaster ride a few times. That's part of what I'm uncertain about. I don't want a ticket for another ride, but I don't feel ready to turn permanently cold on her when she eventually contacts me again - if she does.

I've thought of calling her, but I don't want to set myself up to be talked to harshly or coldly. She can be really aloof and cold in her manner, when she feels she has a grievance. She's capable of being very stuck up, snubbing and hurtful. I don't feel like being the recipient of that kind of treatment. I actually believe she has some emotional problems that drive this unstable behavior, and I have some sympathy for her as a somewhat troubled person.

As for Christmas, I'm okay with being mostly on my own. I simply will not be in a social setting with others who are not fully (3 shot) vaccinated. I didn't blurt it out that plainly to her. Maybe I should have? I tried my best to be tactful. She seems to have taken offence. Maybe I didn't express my concern in the best way, but I was trying to. With some people, I find I just can't walk on the eggshells lightly enough to avoid setting them off. I'm starting to think that relationships like that are not worth the toll they take on my peace of mind.

So, anyway, I'll make a nice ham dinner for Christmas. And I'll enjoy it. The prospect of being alone does not bother me much. I'm far from family, but we are in pretty close touch. When I feel it's safer to fly, I'll go visit my relatives. I've already got presents from them under my tree.

If the past is any clue to the future, I'll probably eventually get a phone call from this friend. Probably after the holidays. It could be months from now. I'm not sure how I want to react . . . not that I have to decide now. This isn't an isolated occurrence. It's part of a pattern. This person used to often tell me that she had hung up on some acquaintance who was on the phone with her. She'ld say, "I didn't like what so-and-so said, so I just hung up on her." She would do this to friends, who somehow tolerated it. Then, years ago, she did it to me more than once. When she eventually called back, I said, "If you ever hang up in my ear again, don't ever bother calling back." I meant it. I told her it was the same as telling someone: "Eff you!" I believe that. To claim to be someone's friend . . . and then to be that coldly dismissive of them . . . is just beyond what I can make sense of. After that, she never hung up in my ear again.

Friends can have the occasional falling out, and rifts can be repaired. But some behavior just feels demeaning. Maybe I'm over-thinking this.

[unaluna]

Kinda funny - on the face of it, one would think covid is a physical health challenge, but it's really calling into focus people's (that is to say, this friend's) emotional deficiencies.

[Rose76]

Originally Posted by unaluna

Kinda funny - on the face of it, one would think covid is a physical health challenge, but it's really calling into focus people's (that is to say, this friend's) emotional deficiencies.

Good point. Challenging times uncover what is underneath people's everyday front that they project. I knew she had tendencies to be unreliable as a friend. I think it is rooted in other issues she has. In the past year, we had gotten quite close. For a number of years previous, I was caring for my very ill significant other. She had detached from me because I didn't have a lot of time to get together with her. Plus she didn't want to hear much about the sickness I was dealing with. She said it reminded her of when she had immediate family who were ill and who died.

After my sig. other passed away, I messaged her that I was free and wondered how she was doing. She came back into my life in a big way. Now that she could get my undivided attention, she was wanting to get together every week and calling almost daily. It seems like she wants all, or nothing. So I guess me backing away from her over our booster disagreement was intolerable to her.

I didn't think you were overthinking it - to me it just sounds like you're processing through it.

[Rose76]

Originally Posted by WovenGalaxy

I didn't think you were overthinking it - to me it just sounds like you're processing through it.

Thanks for your take on this. I feel like I'm a little less distressed about this rift, now that I've laid it out here. Yesterday and today , it was roling around in my head to the point that I was sick of dwelling on it. I can't really know what goes through another person's mind. I've tried to figure how I could have come across offensively to her. I need to give up on that.

I spoke with someone a little while ago who was having a somewhat similar issue. Her daughter's in-laws are anti-vaxers. She doesn't really want her daughter to go spend part of Christmas with her unvaccinated in-laws and, then, come to her house where everyone is triple vaccinated. I suppose this will be an issue for more than a few families.

[RoxanneToto]

I’m sorry you’re having a tough time with your friend; I think protecting yourself is the right thing to do, however she feels about it. We all have the right to lay down boundaries. Do you think the feeling of overthinking it might be because you wanted to please her, but not at the potential expense of your own health?

[Rose76]

Originally Posted by RoxanneToto

I’m sorry you’re having a tough time with your friend; I think protecting yourself is the right thing to do, however she feels about it. We all have the right to lay down boundaries. Do you think the feeling of overthinking it might be because you wanted to please her, but not at the potential expense of your own health?

Yes. I was not trying to pressure her. It's her decision to make her own choice about vaccination. But it affects my ability to spend time with her. I wanted to communicate that. I have put effort into this friendship, and I have valued it. I did not anticipate her getting so angry. I have tried to please her any way I have known to do. But I will avoid being around anyone who is not getting the vaccinations I've gotten. I'm not even sure what about that makes her angry. I thought she would understand.

I guess I'm kind of in shock to have her turn on me like this. It makes me feel like I didn't know her as well as I thought I did. I think I'ld just as soon not ever hear from her again. I'll never trust her as much as I was starting to. She can be a bit demanding. This shows me how little respect she really has for me and for my rights.

[SprinkL3]

I moved to a new state in Fall 2019. I never knew anyone in this new state. I made friends toward the end of 2019 in my apartment building. When the pandemic hit in 2020, they stopped being my friends because they didn't want to adhere to mask mandates, lockdowns, or social distancing. They were no longer considerate of my boundaries, well-being, and compliance with the science-based rules at that time. Little did I know that politics drove their decisions, and that the majority of people in this state believed as they did. Also, I lost many friends and family members who believed in the same - not masking, not social distancing, not vaccinating, not boosting, or partially vaccinating but not getting the 2nd shot or the booster, etc. They were no longer safe for me, and their spreading disinformation and lies was something I didn't want to hear or be party to. I couldn't condone or agree or even witness their very harmful actions, as many people have lost their lives or experienced traumatic grief or became permanently disabled because of disinformation.

You wanting to be safe is self-care for you, and your boundaries are there to help maintain that safety for yourself and others. Their boundaries for freedom or whatever else they believe in may not coincide with yours, so many people move apart and split up friendships for that reason, and that is healthy to do so. To constantly be in a relationship that offers nothing but arguments and friction is stressful, toxic, and not good for either party. Breakups are a part of life. And because this pandemic is political, people have become very tribal. Those who want their freedoms or are sick of playing it safe (due to so-called pandemic fatigue), they tend to flock with the freedom people. Those who are at-risk or are close to at-risk people or work with people in healthcare settings will likely do the responsible thing and be safe over free, though safety equates to more freedom when it's the ones who are unvaccinated and unmasked who are dying or getting severe disease, for the most part. But there are many people who are being safe as part of their civic duties as well as because they just want to be safe and not get hurt, even if they aren't high-risk. That's okay and beneficial, too.

During these polarized times, the healthiest thing to do is to flock with those who hold similar values.

Your friend ghosting you was probably their own boundary, since their values are freedom over safety. I've lost many friends like that, since I mask, isolate, distance, vaccinate, and play it safe. And you know what, they weren't my true friends to begin with. I can't risk my life to adhere to their freedoms. They are playing roulette with their lives, so let them. If you've tried to convince them or state your boundaries, and they are not willing to at least understand why you are doing what you're doing to be safe, then you don't need that stress in your life anyway. Conversely, if they feel stress from people telling them what to do, or to not being loyal to their political party and/or religion, or whatever other cultural values they have that differ from yours, then they have every right to become tribal and only flock with those who do. They can try to "recruit" you into their fold, in much the same way as many former vaccinated persons were recruited, but you can say no or state your case, which will cause them to go on to the next person they can hang freely with, without the need for reminders, science, masks, vaccines, boosters, and more. But their risks are not your risks, and so you two just grew apart from that. It's the sad reality of this pandemic and how politics have defined it and segregated science/medicine/prevention from religion/politics/freedom.

Understand your relational losses and the grief that follows. Many of us have lost many things, not just to death, but also to lost relationships, careers, jobs, future prospects, purposes in life, health, etc. It's a tough loss, but it's inevitable now.

I, myself, will be totally fine with unsafe people ghosting me. In fact, I'd ghost them if they didn't ghost me. If I had a strong relationship, not just an acquaintanceship, then I might hold a conversation. But there's no negotiating with people who are on the extremes or who are pandemic fatigued and have given up or who are loyalists to whatever group they now belong to, etc.

[lizardlady]

Rose, it doesn't seem like you are overthinking this. You were hurt and are trying to process what happened.

I'm going to come at this from a different perspective. What benefit do you get from this friendship?

[Rose76]

SprinkL3 - thanks for sharing your thoughts on this. It so happens that this friend of mine has always had political views different from mine. For years I've avoided getting drawn into political discussions with her. I guess a lot of people have gotten tribal and have distanced themselves from others who don't share their tribal affiliation. I'm sorry that, in your new location, you've had to lose connections with neighbors who were once friendly.

Like you, I prioritize my safety and my health. You make a goid point about how stressful it gets trying to maintain relationships where very basic values aren't shared. Once I get over this loss and the suddeness of this loss, it may reduce some stress in my life. I need to gravitate toward others who look at protecting health the way I do.

It's not like I'm some strange weirdo holding to a very odd viewpoint that hardly anyone else believes in. You've expressed very well the way I look at COVID precautions. Right now, it seems like most of the noise comes from the anti-vaxer side, but they really don't represent the majority of opinion.

I think I had overestimated how good of a friend this person really was in the first place. I may have over-invested in the relationship. I have to admit, she was kind of a high-maintenance friend. She was calling a lot and, over the course of a week, I'ld have spent hours on the phone with her. She'ld want to drop by a lot and hang around for hours, when I had other things to tend to. But I'ld drop other things and figure that, if a friend wanted company, I'ld cater to my friend's needs. She could get pretty needy. With her, I always seemed to be giving a lot. Maybe that gave her the impression that she could always get her way. Maybe that's why she has gotten so angry. I really don't need that in my life.

I'll have to see this as a chance to move on and invest more in healthier relationships.

[Rose76]

Originally Posted by lizardlady

Rose, it doesn't seem like you are overthinking this. You were hurt and are trying to process what happened.

I'm going to come at this from a different perspective. What benefit do you get from this friendship?

That's a really good question. I don't have a lot of people in my life that I see regularly. My longterm boyfriend passed away. I live far from family, and I live alone. Over the years, a number of friends have moved out of the area. So I try to make the most of the connections I have. I found this friend to be reasonably good company now and then. Honestly, though, she was kind of wearing me out at times. Maybe, at some level, she was sensing that, and maybe felt, for a while, that I wasn't giving her enough attention. She tends to have that complaint about other friends too. She tends to want quite a lot of attention. Seeing less of her might actually be kind of a relief.

[SprinkL3]

@Rose76 - I'm sorry for your loss of your longterm boyfriend. My condolences. ((((safe hugs))))

Regarding your friend, it sounds like the relationship wasn't reciprocal, if you gave more than she did in the relationship. Even if this pandemic weren't here, there are those friends who distance themselves when we try to better ourselves; typically, those friends aren't real friends at all to begin with. It's funny how when we do something to better ourselves, we learn quickly who are real friends are, who our jealous/competitive friends are, and then who our using friends/acquaintances-at-best are. This pandemic has brought about differences in safety, politics, religion, cultural beliefs and practices, interdependency/collectivist-friendly versus anti-collectivism/pro-individualism/freedom, and general differences in the reciprocity of the relationship. This pandemic has either caused us to improve ourselves via safety or to take more risks than would be necessary with anti-safety risk patterns. So those relationships that would have been stressed anyway were just simply stressed sooner and more overtly than later and more covertly.

We all need healthy give-and-take relationships. The only exception to that concerns our therapists, psychiatrists, doctors, and sometimes bosses/coworkers, insofar that they aren't our "friends" or "family" per se, but rather providing a service or money in exchange for your money or service. Therapists may seem like they give in a lot to you, but if you try to care about a therapist, it's likely the therapist isn't going to allow much of that, given their lack of sharing their lives with you, etc. And even then, there has to be some sort of balance and expectations met for even professional, therapeutic, and medical relationships.

You are better off without this friend. It sounds like what you need is (a) closure, (b) healthy grieving processes - which is what you're doing now, and (c) support - online and IRL via phone, Zoom, email, text, or safely in person. You can also evaluate what kind of improvements you want to make for yourself going forward, and that includes safety, the kinds of friends you allow in your circle, and the kind that you keep at a distance.

If your friend wants to contact you again, you can keep it to acquaintance talk, like "small talk." You can briefly ask how your friend is doing, and perhaps share with one another how you each need to set health boundaries, given your political and safety differences. That talk will help build the relationship or bring closure to an already disrupted relationship. It seems as though your friend had already made the choice to ghost you and move on to other risky relationships. That's not on you at all; that's on her. You aren't responsible for her risk, and you did the best you could to set a positive, healthy example. She didn't like to hear that, so she left instead of kindly explaining that she has different views. At this point in time, even discussing things like her taking extra risks to party unmasked and unvaccinated with others wouldn't be a pleasant conversation for you anyway. So it doesn't have to even be arguments to be "disgusted" or "worried" when hearing a risky person continuously taking risks that could cost them or others their lives in one way or another, whether it be to increase tensions and suicides among overworked healthcare workers because of hospital surges, deaths among those you both know, permanent disabilities among those you both know, or time off work and career losses, etc. There's much loss when it comes to people who choose risky lives - even with abusing alcohol and/or drugs, especially if they are caring for a parent, a disabled family member, or children; it's similar risks that can cost people their lives, but the pandemic is much, much more of a risk, and it increases potential for addictions, too.

It is also likely that our discussions and boundaries for safety upset the risk-taking antivaxxers, too. The best we can do, again, is ignore what upsets us and move on to simply stick with people we agree with. That's the only way we can reduce stress (so that our immune systems can be functioning better), not give into political wearing-down of the opponent (which is what some purposely do when they start arguments with anyone on the opposing side) by actually walking away and finding validation with like-minded people, and do the best we can to live this life according to our values. It's like separating two enemies or rivals to maintain the peace these days; the arguments and divisions are that heated!!

The consequences will speak for themselves in the end - for both sides, not just one. But we weigh the costs and make a choice.

I, for one, agree with your choices, Rose.

[*Beth*]

I am fully vaxxed and boosted, but my husband refuses to be vaccinated. It's not a political thing for him, he's just suspicious of the long-term effects of the vaccine. He's convinced he won't catch covid. All I can do is hope and pray. I refuse to argue with him about the situation. The time in which we are living calls upon us to make some hard decisions and sometimes, compromises.

[Rose76]

SprinkL3 - Thank you for your condolences. Thank you for your thoughtful posting. I see where this recent falling out with my friend is just the latest in a long history of differences. To be honest, for years I considered her more of an acquaintance than a real friend. Then I got to thinking that I was comparing her to too high of a standard of what I would call a real friend. She definitely has limitations in how reciprocal she can be. She seems to consistently take more than she gives. I don't know that she can help that.

She is a compulsive gambler and has gotten into serious financial difficulty over that. So she is living under a lot of stress due to the debt she has racked up. Her attitudes aren't working very well for her. I'm glad I'm not in her shoes. I think she's lonely and used gambling as a coping strategy. She's not very sympathetic to others in difficulty. She likes to say, "People have choices." That's ironic, coming from her, given her own history of "choices." I guess her current treatment of me is just her latest questionable choice. I'm not sorry about the choice I made . . . to keep away from the less than fully vaccinated. I didn't want to alienate her, but her lifestyle is not combatible with mine.

[Rose76]

Originally Posted by BethRags

I am fully vaxxed and boosted, but my husband refuses to be vaccinated. It's not a political thing for him, he's just suspicious of the long-term effects of the vaccine. He's convinced he won't catch covid. All I can do is hope and pray. I refuse to argue with him about the situation. The time in which we are living calls upon us to make some hard decisions and sometimes, compromises.

That is tough, Beth. I'm sorry your husband jeopardizes you both by not getting vaccinated. You don't have a good option in those circumstances. I think you've made a defensible decision. Arguing with him over this would probably be futile.

[Buffy01]

Originally Posted by Rose76

I got the COVID booster shot some weeks ago. I also got a pneumonia vaccine. I try to keep up with being as protected as I can be. I call that being responsible.

A friend of mine was taking COVID seriously most of the past year. She got the first two shots. We have hung out a good bit until recently. Both of us live alone and have been cautious about where we go. I felt she was a reasonably safe person to be around. Now, however, she has had a change of views and I have been avoiding her.

She shows no interest in getting the booster shot. She knows someone who practices "alternative" medicine (not a doctor.) This person advised her not to get the booster shot. On top of blowing off the booster, she told me she's been thinking about making a trip to a casino. She misses playing the slots, which was a favorite pastime of hers prior to COVID. What she does is her business, but I don't want to chance getting COVID from someone who is less cautious than I am.

For a while I found excuses to avoid doing things with her. Ten days ago, I told her on the phone that I would be secluding myself more than I had been doing, due to the COVID surge. She got kind of brusque and sounded annoyed ending the call. I haven't heard from her since.

Normally she calls me a lot. I was used to hearing from her every other day. She gets bored a lot and likes frequent long phone conversations. I find plenty to keep me busy, but I would interrupt whatever I was doing to make time for her. In a way, I'm not sorry to have the frequent phone calls stop. I am a bit dismayed that she seems to have ghosted me over our having different views on the COVID booster shot.

I'm not sure what to do now. If she had gotten the shot, I would have gotten together with her to do some holiday things. I would have invited her to come by for dinner on Christmas. (I like to cook. She doesn't.) I feel like the ball's in her court. She's got a history of abruptly absenting herself from contact with a friend and, then, suddenly reappearing after quite an interval. (She's done this with others besides me.) Something about this behavior really has me disturbed.

I’m sorry that you were treated this way. The pandemic is getting to everyone. Maybe the friendship has run it course.

[sarahsweets]

Originally Posted by Rose76

Hi W.G. Thanks for understanding. It becomes a case of such extremes. When I'm on her friend list, she practically wants to move in with me. Honestly, she gets more than a bit clingy. Then, when I've fallen out of favor with her, literally months can go by where I hear nothing from her. I've taken this roller coaster ride a few times. That's part of what I'm uncertain about. I don't want a ticket for another ride, but I don't feel ready to turn permanently cold on her when she eventually contacts me again - if she does.

I've thought of calling her, but I don't want to set myself up to be talked to harshly or coldly. She can be really aloof and cold in her manner, when she feels she has a grievance. She's capable of being very stuck up, snubbing and hurtful. I don't feel like being the recipient of that kind of treatment. I actually believe she has some emotional problems that drive this unstable behavior, and I have some sympathy for her as a somewhat troubled person.

As for Christmas, I'm okay with being mostly on my own. I simply will not be in a social setting with others who are not fully (3 shot) vaccinated. I didn't blurt it out that plainly to her. Maybe I should have? I tried my best to be tactful. She seems to have taken offence. Maybe I didn't express my concern in the best way, but I was trying to. With some people, I find I just can't walk on the eggshells lightly enough to avoid setting them off. I'm starting to think that relationships like that are not worth the toll they take on my peace of mind.

So, anyway, I'll make a nice ham dinner for Christmas. And I'll enjoy it. The prospect of being alone does not bother me much. I'm far from family, but we are in pretty close touch. When I feel it's safer to fly, I'll go visit my relatives. I've already got presents from them under my tree.

If the past is any clue to the future, I'll probably eventually get a phone call from this friend. Probably after the holidays. It could be months from now. I'm not sure how I want to react . . . not that I have to decide now. This isn't an isolated occurrence. It's part of a pattern. This person used to often tell me that she had hung up on some acquaintance who was on the phone with her. She'ld say, "I didn't like what so-and-so said, so I just hung up on her." She would do this to friends, who somehow tolerated it. Then, years ago, she did it to me more than once. When she eventually called back, I said, "If you ever hang up in my ear again, don't ever bother calling back." I meant it. I told her it was the same as telling someone: "Eff you!" I believe that. To claim to be someone's friend . . . and then to be that coldly dismissive of them . . . is just beyond what I can make sense of. After that, she never hung up in my ear again.

Friends can have the occasional falling out, and rifts can be repaired. But some behavior just feels demeaning. Maybe I'm over-thinking this.

I’m not trying to be mean or judge anything, but she just doesn’t sound like a very good friend based on what you said in the past form

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[SprinkL3]

Originally Posted by Rose76

SprinkL3 - Thank you for your condolences. Thank you for your thoughtful posting. I see where this recent falling out with my friend is just the latest in a long history of differences. To be honest, for years I considered her more of an acquaintance than a real friend. Then I got to thinking that I was comparing her to too high of a standard of what I would call a real friend. She definitely has limitations in how reciprocal she can be. She seems to consistently take more than she gives. I don't know that she can help that.

She is a compulsive gambler and has gotten into serious financial difficulty over that. So she is living under a lot of stress due to the debt she has racked up. Her attitudes aren't working very well for her. I'm glad I'm not in her shoes. I think she's lonely and used gambling as a coping strategy. She's not very sympathetic to others in difficulty. She likes to say, "People have choices." That's ironic, coming from her, given her own history of "choices." I guess her current treatment of me is just her latest questionable choice. I'm not sorry about the choice I made . . . to keep away from the less than fully vaccinated. I didn't want to alienate her, but her lifestyle is not combatible with mine.

You're very welcome, Rose. I just hope you can heal from that relationship and perhaps keep an opened-mind in case she tries to call or text in the future. It sounds like you have good enough boundaries to stay safe. It's not that we can't have friends like that in our lives, but rather that we can limit our time with them to keep ourselves safe and hopefully set a good example for them to improve in the future. We all need improvements, and we essentially all learn from one another on how to improve ourselves and our relationships. No one is perfect. But there are some who are not healthy, and they choose to remain unhealthy. That then puts other people at risk when they take too many risks. So, it's not outright rejecting them, but rather it's setting boundaries and being open to a good future but realistic enough to self-protect.

I'm learning that the hard way with some of my friends.

I have a friend in Chicago who has the symptoms of Covid but refuses to get tested or get the booster. He also wants to see if he feels better in a couple of days so that he can go to a restaurant with his friends. He spends a lot of time in the gym, and he only wears surgical masks. He never masks outside, and he only masks when he sees others (without realizing that his virus could linger in the air indoors for hours). I try to explain to him - an educated man with a degree higher than mine - what the science says, but he claims that "I don't live in fear" crap. He's in his late-50s and very fit with no underlying conditions, so he's one of those who ignores all the safety precautions. It irks me and worries me at the same time. But he made that choice. I could never trust him with health stuff or health advice, and I certainly am glad that I'm not his neighbor anymore. He does it for non-political reasons, too. He's more of an independent than anything else, and he's an Asian minority. It's just mind-boggling how people are. I limit my time talking with him to about once a month, just to check in. It used to be weekly until I kept hearing about his exposure in the gym and elsewhere. He also hosts many events with those of his age and older. It's not safe, and this is how the virus spreads!

Anyway, I won't just end the friendship, but I will limit my time with hearing things that really bother me because it could mean life and death to his neighbors, including my friend and his wife who live in his building and take the same elevator. I worry for them because one of them is overweight and might have underlying issues.

That's one example of maintaining a friendship, stating your values, cautioning your friend, and then hearing how that person's mind won't be changed at all. Its' sad, but the only thing we can do is distance ourselves from hearing upsetting news like that. It's tantamount to someone telling you that they are going to do illicit drugs every night. That's how it feels when I hear these people go about their daily lives without boosting, without masking, and/or without vaccinating.

[nonightowl]

Originally Posted by Rose76

If the past is any clue to the future, I'll probably eventually get a phone call from this friend. Probably after the holidays. It could be months from now. I'm not sure how I want to react . . . not that I have to decide now. This isn't an isolated occurrence. It's part of a pattern. She would do this to friends, who somehow tolerated it. Then, years ago, she did it to me more than once. When she eventually called back, I said, "If you ever hang up in my ear again, don't ever bother calling back." I meant it. I told her it was the same as telling someone: "Eff you!" I believe that. To claim to be someone's friend . . . and then to be that coldly dismissive of them . . . is just beyond what I can make sense of. After that, she never hung up in my ear again.

This reminds me of a neighbor (sadly) in my building who once kept calling me to vent and to ask for advice about her family dynamics. And I listened. She once said thanks and it goes both ways. Right......The last time I talked to her, over a year ago, I had woken her but said sorry I'll call back. She said that's okay, but she listened for just a minute or so. Then said, "I didn't get much sleep last night so going back to my nap." And she hung up on me.

So when I need somebody, she doesn't have the time. Yet she took up so much of my time with her stories. ***** &*^$#(@ phony people and lip service. I was skeptical of her "that goes both ways" claim and I was right. I never completely trusted her, and I'm glad I didn't.

Thankfully I haven't seen her. She hasn't officially moved out, but she's seldom here so it's like she's not here anymore. Unfortunately she parks near me so I used to run into her all the time. She's the only person I know who's been here longer than I have. And remembers the previous managers.

We're on the same page with COVID, last time we talked about that. She said her mom's caregiver refuses to wear a mask, along with her mom. Both are or were in denial about it. My neighbor was livid about it.

I don't know where she is or why she's hardly here----I spot her car once in awhile for about a minute then she's gone again. But I don't miss her.

For awhile it was okay, as she was the only neighbor I knew well enough to call and ask if she knows what's going on with the water or stuff like that. Now there's nobody to ask.

If she ever talks to me again, I'll just say hello but that's it. If she brings up talking on the phone, I'll remind her she hung up on me which was very rude, considering how many times she's called me and I listened to HER.

[Rose76]

Originally Posted by Buffy01

I’m sorry that you were treated this way. The pandemic is getting to everyone. Maybe the friendship has run it course.

It may be that you've summed up the situation pretty well. I guess some relationships exist for a time and then become part of the past, which may be where they belong.

Thanks for that concise insight.

[nonightowl]

Originally Posted by Buffy01

I’m sorry that you were treated this way. The pandemic is getting to everyone. Maybe the friendship has run it course.

Or maybe it was never really ON a course, or at least not on the same one, if using that analogy. It's good one.

I'm thinking about my past and current "friends".

[Rose76]

Originally Posted by sarahsweets

I’m not trying to be mean or judge anything, but she just doesn’t sound like a very good friend based on what you said in the past form

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I always saw her as someone from whom I shouldn't expect a lot. For years, she really didn't meet my definition of a true friend. Then I decided to expand my concept of what constitutes friendship. I decided to accept that there are degrees of friendship and that the limited ones have value.

What may have gotten out of kilter was the amount of time and attention I was giving to this person, relative to what I was getting out of knowing her. It was excessive. It did feel, at times, like she was draining me. Phone conversations were frequent and long. I was always the one to bring the conversation to a close. She was constantly checking in with me, as if we were the best of "besties," which didn't feel real.

Possibly I'm the one who was being kind of phoney, in not setting limits more consistently. I would put that down to my history of being a loner with not a whole lot of social experience. I let myself get over-involved with someone whom I never deeply trusted.

[Rose76]

Originally Posted by SprinkL3

You're very welcome, Rose. I just hope you can heal from that relationship and perhaps keep an opened-mind in case she tries to call or text in the future. It sounds like you have good enough boundaries to stay safe. It's not that we can't have friends like that in our lives, but rather that we can limit our time with them to keep ourselves safe and hopefully set a good example for them to improve in the future. We all need improvements, and we essentially all learn from one another on how to improve ourselves and our relationships. No one is perfect. But there are some who are not healthy, and they choose to remain unhealthy. That then puts other people at risk when they take too many risks. So, it's not outright rejecting them, but rather it's setting boundaries and being open to a good future but realistic enough to self-protect.

I'm learning that the hard way with some of my friends.

I have a friend in Chicago who has the symptoms of Covid but refuses to get tested or get the booster. He also wants to see if he feels better in a couple of days so that he can go to a restaurant with his friends. He spends a lot of time in the gym, and he only wears surgical masks. He never masks outside, and he only masks when he sees others (without realizing that his virus could linger in the air indoors for hours). I try to explain to him - an educated man with a degree higher than mine - what the science says, but he claims that "I don't live in fear" crap. He's in his late-50s and very fit with no underlying conditions, so he's one of those who ignores all the safety precautions. It irks me and worries me at the same time. But he made that choice. I could never trust him with health stuff or health advice, and I certainly am glad that I'm not his neighbor anymore. He does it for non-political reasons, too. He's more of an independent than anything else, and he's an Asian minority. It's just mind-boggling how people are. I limit my time talking with him to about once a month, just to check in. It used to be weekly until I kept hearing about his exposure in the gym and elsewhere. He also hosts many events with those of his age and older. It's not safe, and this is how the virus spreads!

Anyway, I won't just end the friendship, but I will limit my time with hearing things that really bother me because it could mean life and death to his neighbors, including my friend and his wife who live in his building and take the same elevator. I worry for them because one of them is overweight and might have underlying issues.

That's one example of maintaining a friendship, stating your values, cautioning your friend, and then hearing how that person's mind won't be changed at all. Its' sad, but the only thing we can do is distance ourselves from hearing upsetting news like that. It's tantamount to someone telling you that they are going to do illicit drugs every night. That's how it feels when I hear these people go about their daily lives without boosting, without masking, and/or without vaccinating.

Your post above hits on a lot of points related to: "What do I do, if she calls two months from now?" That's been her past pattern - to go off in an angry huff . . . let some time pass . . . then reconnect for a fresh start. I don't need to be vindictive, but a "reset" would be called for.

I can learn from this. I need not have allowed her to mentally "move in" on me, like she did, just because I had a lot of free time, at this point in my life. I could have cut the phone calls shorter. I needed to set limits based on my level of interest, instead of making myself over-available whenever she was lonely ir bored.

Letting her more-or-less use me as she felt like doing is why I feel betrayed. I feel like she owed me more respect. However, respectful people don't impose as freely as she did. I was reinforcing her disrespectful tendencies by picking up the phone way more than I had any interest in doing.

I have compassion for her because she is lonely and needy. Her family of origin doesn't bother with her. (Now I see why.) But she becomes a bottomless pit of need who wants to be "serviced" by others. I don't have to participate in that.

She told me recently that she had adopted a belief that "fate" determines everything. She said she was setting aside fear of COVID because "People die when it is their time to die and nothing they do alters that." Listening to her made me kind of angry because it didn't sound like she sincerely believed that. It sounded like she was being deliberately provocative to get a rise out of me. She is very fond of needling people. This newfound "fatalism" seemed to be her just throwing herself deeper into an irresponsible mindset. That's dangerous thinking. I don't want to be put at risk by someone else's decision to disregard risk. She suggested that she's immune to COVID because she is a "homebody" who doesn't go out and about much. (But she's been yearning to spend a day at the nearest casino.)