Stuck

Been married over twenty years. Been a tense relationship with dysfunction. Still, there’s a lot of love between us. How it all adds up, don’t know.

I don’t understand him much anymore. Feel like he’s never much understood me.

I’m trying to repair the relationship or end it. He wants to hang on and not change anything. Or he says he needs more time before he can do anything about his marijuana addiction. Being high comes first every day. Can’t drive our child, can’t parent much. Doesn’t talk to me really. Does his own thing with some pleasantries with me here and there, or unpleasantries.

Tried marriage counseling but that ended because the addiction issue was outside the scope of her practice. He’s been doing minimal addiction therapy that hasn’t seemed to make any difference yet. Hasn’t been doing the therapy long, but took a very long time to start it. Had maybe 6 sessions and no change, doesn’t say a peep about the therapy. Spent at least $270 on weed in the last ten days. Always high, daughter comments she’s never seen her dad sober and that she has no relationship with him really.

He has trigger warning tendencies. Been a big factor of why I fear to leave him.

I try to talk to him about things and he doesn’t respond. At all. Or he’ll say leave him alone or he’ll say who am I to demand things or he’ll just laugh. He’s abruptly said he’ll change something but doesn’t follow through.

He just wants to keep things like this. I tell him there’s a problem and he just denies it everytime. He’ll say what’s the issue? Like he’s never heard it before. He said this morning “I can’t believe you bring this up right now.” Never the right time.

I guess it’s not about repairing the relationship because it was probably broken from the start. I don’t know how I could love someone so much who has treated me poorly. Have I treated him poorly too? I just keep expecting (hoping) that he’ll get more help at least.

But I guess he is happy how it is and thinks I’m trying to call the shots and wants to put his foot down and have me go along with things the way they are, just being satisfied that he is here and stop pouting about anything else and stop inventing problems. We no longer have intimacy except hugs and kisses and I love yous everyday.

I don’t know what to do exactly. I could ask him to move out, but I keep hoping something will change. Why am I like this??

Have you tried therapy and support for yourself and your daughter? Al anon? At the very least buy some Al anon literature and read on your own. N-anon? Al ateen for your daughter if she is minor

No he won’t change. Unless of course he seeks treatment but even then he’ll always be an addict. You didn’t cause it though and you can’t cure it

As about trying to talk to him about this or that. There is this passage in one of the Al anon books (don’t recall which ones, I’ve read them when I was in a relationship with alcoholic and needed more info on it deciding to leave) it asks you if you’d go to pastry shop to ask for produce? No. Will you go to auto parts shop and ask for bread? No. They don’t have it and never will have it so no point in asking. Then why do you go to actively using addict asking for things they don’t have and cannot provide? He cannot provide you with treatmet or relationship or insight that you want. He is a produce shop and you are asking for dairy products.

Can’t answer why you are “like this”. There might be many factors at play. Was there substance abuse in your family of origin? Other dysfunctions? Again get into therapy for yourself. Not to fix him. Work on yourself

Get help for yourself and your daughter. You can’t change other people.

Hello Starling
My heart really goes out to you.
I want to disclose right away that I'm a separated man who personally struggled with marijuana dependency/loss of intimacy and was utterly unable to see the damage his behaviour was doing to the family. Your post resonated with me on a deeply personal level.

You ask: Why am I like this? I believe you are the only person who can honestly answer that question.

FWIW, I'd like to offer my own perspective based on some of the things you mentioned which relate to my experience. I have no answers, only my perspective.

Firstly I want to urge caution with regard use of the word 'Addict' or 'Addiction' relating to his marijuana use. I feel that, for some people, this can lead to confusion regarding how and why marijuana might be consumed. I wonder if 'Dependency' is a more appropriate phrase?

Only yourself and your partner know the intimate details of your lives. From my own experience, I used marijuana for years as an emotional crutch/way to avoid intimacy. That's my story. However, I'd be very curious to learn a little of his past and to dig deeper into why he feels he needs to use so heavily. The fact that his most significant relationships are failing, and he's unable to respond ,suggests a deep-rooted denial which, I would guess, marijuana helps mitigate to some degree.

I also want to challenge the notion that he won't change. No one can tell you that with certainty. You don't need me to tell you, of course, but the change can only come from him. Marijuana use can be stopped (I stopped after the shock of separation and never went back to it) or reduced. It might take therapy, then again it might just take his own willingness to change and willpower to achieve.

I know heavy marijuana use can lead to emotional withdrawal and introspection. Based solely on the details you share it sounds like he has aspects of these. Again from my own exp, rationalising with him (our marriage! the children! the family home! your health! etc, etc), although understandable, might be futile.

I'm going to stop short of telling you what you should do but some details mirror those of my own marriage: You suggest there has always been difficulty in your relationship. You appear to have made unsuccessful attempts to save your marriage via therapy etc You have supported him for a long time. There's still a closeness yet a chasm between you. There is a child.

Ultimately my wife could no longer put my emotional need/demands before those of the kids and herself. One day she told me I had to leave. It was a terrible shock yet also a personal awakening. Perhaps the best thing she could have done for all of us.

Some very tough decisions present themselves in your case. From the sound of things, it'll be YOU making them as he is currently unable to. Whatever happens it'll demand sacrifice, emotional strength and perhaps sheer force of willpower.

DO foreground the needs of you and your little one in whatever decisions or actions you take - I can't stress this enough. This isn't to suggest you ignore your partners needs, however. It's a balance you'll have to consider for yourself. But everyone's well-being has to be accounted for in particular the little one.

We're all here to support you.

There might be 'a lot of love' between you but love is not enough when there is addiction in the relationship. He clearly doesn't want to change (as his behaviours reflect), so your choices are pretty clear: stay with him knowing he is happy as things are or or set firm boundaries and remove yourself from the situation. If neither of you makes a change, this is your life for the foreseeable. As you can't make him change, the change has to come from you.

IF you want to know why you are like this, that is something you can explore in counselling. No one here could answer that question for you. At the end of the day, there needs to be action, rather than not doing anything or wishing/hoping for things to (magically) be different.

Hey starling.
Orwellian shared a lot, we all know no one experience is just like another, nonetheless there is a valuable perspective there.
This is not advice, just a question..Have you told your partner that you are considering leaving him?

Thank you. My daughter has been in counseling for awhile and I start this weekend. I’ve been through therapy before, but didn’t talk much about my relationship at that time. I remember one counselor saying that my husband revolved his life around substances and I revolved my life around him. I was just happy he wasn’t drinking and couldn’t see it at the time, thinking I was just being a wife. I will pick up some books as you suggested. That’s a great idea. You’re right talking to him does nothing much. Talking worked to get him to start addiction therapy, so that’s something. But he has a very desperate tight hold around his weed. Yes my father was an alcoholic with mental illness.
Doesn’t matter how much I beg, no stopping. My husband says it’s pathetic to leave someone over weed. He says smoking like he does is better than killer depression, anxiety, ptsd. I guess my relationship with my dad really messed up how I view things. I feel so stuck.

Thank you, and I hope things are going alright for you and I appreciate your insight. I hope nothing I say will be triggering to you since you’re going through similar. I worry a lot about triggering people.

He is “utterly unable to see the damage his behaviour was doing to the family.” His ego can’t take the truth. He is habitual and enjoys his routines. His family routine is short and superficial. I do think intimacy is an issue, or vulnerability, although he has talked about problems thousands of times. He thinks I will never leave. He doesn’t take me seriously and has considered my ultimatums as betrayal. Asking him to leave seemed impossible before. I think I’ve been preparing internally for leaving. At the same time I keep hoping things will get better. The truth is he is quite happy how things are. He has his routine and clings to it. Upsetting his routines brings heat, so I’ve probably avoided doing that. He has been very unstable. Currently he is more stable than before. I think he has self worth and power issues that he seems to use our family to feel better about. I empathize with him because of his mental health. But he doesn’t empathize with me because it’s about him.

Addiction or dependency may be the same thing? I don’t know. Not sure he would stop if we separated. I seriously doubt it.

Thanks. You’re right he doesn’t want to stop smoking. Doesn’t reduce his use. Flaunts it. It’s like giving up his best friend and even thinking about that makes him smoke more. I guess I’ve believed I’m doing things, taking action, but perhaps not.

Thanks, I’ve told him a few times. The first time he got physically sick from it and couldn’t work for a few days. He said I betrayed him. Another couple times he said he would make small changes to “make me happy.” Didn’t follow through. He used guilt saying how could i think of doing that to our daughter. He thinks keeping a marriage together is key. In his view he is struggling enough and says it’s not right for me to put pressure on him.
Recently I said we have to separate and he said if it’s because of weed, then “do whatever I want.” Then he acted like nothing happened. Although I noticed he suddenly did a couple minor chores around the house.
He did tackle a big chore he has been putting off for years. It was a trigger for him.

It’s difficult when the choice is yours alone to make. Have you discussed seperating from him with your daughter?

It’s concerning that marijuana being legalized is contributing to people thinking it’s ok to be dependent on it. A person still has mood challenges and can be out of touch depending on how much they use it. It’s a form of escapism as is the case with other drugs including alcohol.

It sounds like given your past of growing up with an alcoholic parent that you learned how to be codependent and your husband feels that you should continue to be a codependent. So in effect you are passing down this dysfunction to your children.

You have a right to live your life no longer having to be the codependent.

Some pot users claim that there is no marijuana addiction. There’s absolutely and widely recognized cannabis addiction. Not just dependency (which is pretty much the same thing) . Also it’s not true that marijuana just mellows people down. Cannabis psychosis is also well known reaction to pot. So every pot smoker could become potentially dangerous at any point.

He’s not going to stop because of your begging. You didn’t cause it and you cannot cure it.

No it’s not pathetic to leave someone due to substance abuse. You have rights to live your life the way you see fit. Your children have rights for healthy life style. Addiction and substance abuse is a very serious and valid reason to leave a relationship. It’s not like you are leaving him because he leaves a dirty coffee cup on the counter. This is serious

She brought it up to me. I never considered it before that really and thought it was important to keep the family together and healthy as possible. It’s not an emergency situation to get him out necessarily, but that’s because I made some changes around here after she let me know how much his problems effect her. I made more of a buffer between him and us. Neither one of could handle how he had slowing but surely taken our the whole house.
I told him we need to separate the other day and she saw me flustered afterwards. I did tell her what I said to him, and she was fine with it. She’s told me it’s what she wants because she wants to have her life not be overshadowed by his illness and addiction. She did interact with him quite a bit afterwards and came to me for many hugs.

Thank you. Yeah it’s as bad as alcoholism the way some people do it. He thinks it helps him. I hate to be codependent and I definitely don’t want my kids to be.
I have been picturing a different life and different way of being.

Thank you. I agree that it is a valid reason to leave. I’ve been shifting my thinking. He is getting a bit healthier than he was (mentally). I couldn’t even think of leaving when he was so ill. It was an unfortunate situation.

I'm sorry you're in a failed marriage, which is what you're in. You're willing to be ever so patient and supportive and would do anything for this man - as you have been doing - if only, if only . . .

You do have a ton of insight. You seem to totally get that he's just fine with things exactly as they are. You may have a problem, but he doesn't. He lets you adapt to him, which you do well enough to keep this marriage going. You don't want to keep adapting to what you need not accept.

His main problem is not the marijuana addiction. It is the profound immaturity that colors his attitudes about everything. That is as mature as he is ever going to get. He's had 20 years of marriage and a long span of fatherhood. Those responsibilities often mature a man. They didn't mature him. Nothing else is going to. Let go of the delusion that, if he got enough "help," he could transcend his challenges and move forward. There isn't that much help on the planet. Therapy and rehab have to have something to work with. In his case, there's nothing there to work with. Profound immaturity combined with severe lack of character in an adult his age is a terminal illness. Some mental illness is "terminal," just like end stage COPD, or widely metastasized cancer. He will die in this state of mind. I wouldn't judge him. He may truly be incapable of having done things differently. Who knows?

If you're wondering how you could have gotten into such a relationship, the truth is that it is possible to fall in love with even the most severely damaged, zero-potential persons. I don't doubt you find him lovable. He was, and he is. Loving someone is not a sufficient reason to form a partnership with that person. Love does not conquer all . . . . . not in the absence of one party lacking any capacity to be responsible. You didn't used to know that. Now you do.

Let him go. Resolve to pray for him, if you are so inclined, and live your life. His future is sad and will be hard for your daughter and you to watch. Watch it from a distance. You have no moral obligation to allow his self-destruction to unfold in what you call your home. Let where your daughter and you choose to live be a "home," not a venue for this impossible behavior. And don't put this on her. It's your call. He's been crapping in this home. Tell him to take that down the road. Get a lawyer. Make the arrangements. Don't expect him to lift a finger to coordinate this separation.

Your life can be better.

If you're worried that he may not survive outside the marriage, your worry is well-founded. In it, or outside it, he is self-destructing. You can choose to continue having a ruined life, so that he self-destructs in the comfort of your home. That would be foolish of you. Society has resources for persons like him. When he applies for them, he will be told there are rules he must follow. They will enforce that. That might force some change. Just understand you're never going to get him back, "fixed."

Thanks Rose. You’re correct that immaturity is his main problem. He’s less mature than our kids, even if he knows how to do things they don’t. Just today he threw his weight around and scolded/directed my son about Mother’s Day even though my son and I had already discussed it a couple days ago and we have a great bond. He acted like the authority to make sure I was treated “right.” It makes no sense other than he is trying to show me he cares, yet it’s in areas that don’t need his attention. It created awkwardness that I then have to deal with. It gave him a chance to show disapproval towards our son when he doesn’t deserve it.
If I tried to point any of that out he would NEVER be able to grasp it. It would irritate him, anger him, because he’s trying to be seen as good. He’s been randomly pointing out his contributions lately; he’s transparent.

His behavior can be impossible, very true. He absolutely has been crapping in this house, even though he so enjoys parts of it, he neglects/ignores the rest. His self worth is so low, which I know as his wife, but he acts so arrogant and sure of himself. I’m not religious, but I do keep hearing the Bible phrase in my head lately that talks about asking for a fish and getting a serpent. That’s how it is with him.

I’m so unhappy with the relationship but I care so much about him. I can’t understand myself, and I’m struggling to make sense. I guess I know it’s about fear not love. I don’t want to put anything on my daughter. He has no idea what she wants (that he not live with us). I had a counseling session yesterday and it was mostly intake; the counselor advised not to make any big decisions until we can talk again next week. Im disappointed in myself that I am so skeptical and discerning about things outside my home, but not so in my home with him. I’m so disappointed in myself that my kids have to tell me his behavior is enough to separate; enough to limit him from the home for their growth and wellbeing. I feel like a failure that I can’t identify the correct answer on my own. Im so unsure.

It’s like my goal is to prevent or minimize his self destruction.

Your goals are for you to choose.

It is perfectly okay for you to care about him.

You must choose what you have to do to take care of first priorities. Refusal to choose is a choice. I'm glad you found a counselor. You need support. The responsibility for resolving your situation is yours.

I've known parents who've barred alcoholic/addicted sons from their homes. These were sons they loved. If they could buy a solution, they would spend plenty. They've had to say, "No. Our home is not a place where anything goes. You cannot hang around here drunk/high/stoned. Go be where that is what goes down. Find a hangout where that is par for the course."

Loose the term "codependent." It serves no purpose. 12 step programs often discourage dwelling on that label. It's a distraction . . . a rationalization. Think more concretely.

Thanks. it’s okay to care about him, and it’s impossible for me not to. I’ll be working on goals at my next appt and hopefully the counselor will guide me because I’m stuck swirling. I know I’m a good mother even though I haven’t modeled a healthy relationship, which would make me a great mother. My kids are wonderful people, but due to nature and nurture they have a lot of anxiety and are hard on themselves. My daughter says I have too low self esteem to get out of an embarrassing and annoying situation. We’ve been together so long it’s hard to make the relationship status change.

If you are facing the reality of who he is and letting go of the notion that, with "help," he can be remodeled into the husband and father you need him to be, that right there is huge. You cover a vast stretch of ground just doing that, and that may be enough for you to accomplish for now. Decisions about his physical presence in the home will start to almost make themselves, after you solidify your grasp of what's really going on. Right now your task is to set aside sentimentalities and fantasies of possibilities that aren't ever going to happen. That's a lot of mental work and it's almost traumatizing. The mind defends itself from what is too painful by creating alternative narratives that help us feel more hopeful and less defeated. We imagine how "if only" this and "if only" that. "Maybe this" and "maybe that." You've done the preliminary work of cataloging all the examples of how you have an unacceptable, unfair, soul-withering situation. You've started to consider that there may be an alternative to just languishing in this mess as something that can't be changed. You're letting go of hope in solutions that will not happen. You need to inhabit that space for awhile and get oriented.

When you have the honesty and courage to come out of dreamland and face reality, it doesn't feel good at first. But, oh, is it empowering. You have options. Take a little time to discover that you're not as trapped as you thought you were. Get used to the view from your new vantage point.

I'm so glad you have the satisfaction of your children being as well as they are. Congratulations on successful mothering. You're afraid of making a false move. Fine. It's not like the house is on fire, and you better bolt through an exit immediately. It doesn't sound like there are imminent threats to your children's and your safety. Instead, there's a long-established status quo that you've become completely sick of. Altering it can feel like taxiing a jumbo jet on the runway. Dissolving a marriage feels shockingly radical because you went into it with such commitment. You don't reneg on commitment easily. I admire that.

One day at a time.

It’s important to understand what codependency means. One of the unhealthy aspects of codependency is enabling behaviors that are not healthy for the overall relationship, but also has become a detriment to the quality of your own life.

Up until now you have been a good mother in that your children knew they had your support while they slowly learned a lot of different things about life and themselves. For them to also continue developing skills to maintain independence is important. Our children pay attention to how we navigate our lives. One thing parents teach without realizing it is giving up independence and instead living their life around an unhealthy partner.

Right now you are evaluating and trying to do so as honestly as possible. That takes courage in that you are forced to see realities that may be hard to accept. A lot of marriages go through a period of evaluation when the children are getting ready to leave the nest and the parents lives change. The question does become what’s next and what does the relationship mean.

You have important questions about what your life will be about next. You deserve to have a sense of independence and be free from the constant parenting role you engaged in every day. Your husband has expressed that he is content to continue his daily use of marijuana. It sounds like he prefers to be numb on a daily basis. He wants you to enable that lifestyle and live your life around that dependency.

What do you want?

A mother’s life does revolve around parenting her children. That changes when the children are leaving the nest. It’s important your life doesn’t revolve around your husband and his choice to engage in his addiction to marijuana. He has expressed his contentment with that lifestyle. You don’t have to be a part of that choice he has made.

Thank you, Rose. Mostly I accept him as he is, which I guess was a problem from the start. I totally ignored terrible behavior decades ago, and since. I believed I did something wrong to deserve it, or I believed I was having too high expectations, that he at the time behaved like that because he’d only seen poor behavior and, or I was just busy defending myself and just wanting to be loved in my marriage. He has a roller coaster way of being, even with his routines. I have been done with him at times I guess, and then I see him again with compassion and empathy. I guess I went way way way past sick of it, to numb, starting a few years back.

I’ve thought if he gets help with his trauma then he wouldn’t have all those reactions, moods, ups, downs, ticks, obsessions, etc. I see him as someone with an infliction they can’t help, and myself collateral damage. I’ve had a lot of setbacks as well in life, and he has stood by me, although he doesn’t handle them well necessarily. I suppose that does all add up to a lot of what if’s.

And like you said it’s like taxiing a jet plane. It’s erasing permanent ink.

I’m stuck I guess means I’m getting a push from my kid and I’m standing still for the most part. Yes I need time for a big change. I have to admit that I feel confused because she would continue to spend time with him for visitation, and I would be apart? I can’t wrap my brain around it. I guess if he hasn’t treated me well enough then I should want to leave. He treats me fine if I never try to interfere with him, which sounds odd.

Thanks open eyes. I want a partner to have fun with. We stopped doing much of anything together a few years ago. I could be very lonely with him and an empty nest. He gets high so doesn’t really need to do anything else beyond that.