[lovethesun]

Hi everyone.
You all may remember a post I made on here back in March of this year in which my daughter had pizza orders falsely ordered in her name and someone made a fake rape report in her name through the anonymous reporting site for her school. We met with school admin, addressed it and it all stopped. I also told my daughter to avoid the 2 girls who I suspected had something to do with it, which she did. She had no further contact with them.

Fast forward to now. Just prior to the school year ending a classmate of my daughter's who knew the 2 suspect girls came up to my daughter and said "M and O (the 2 girls) want to talk to you. Can you please talk to them? They said they miss you." My daughter never spoke to them as I told her if they want to talk to you let them be the ones to approach you themselves. There was no further contact until yesterday (3 weeks after school ended). Both girls started talking in a group chat text to each other and the messages popped up on my daughter's phone. It was an old text chat group that my daughter had been in with these 2 girls but she deleted their contact info after the March incidents but was unable to leave the group completely. So messages popped up with no name, just dialog. My daughter asked the 2 people who they were as she did not remember. Turns out it was M & O. The 2 girls that turned their backs on my daughter and fueled the bully fires back in march when the fake pizza orders were going on. The same 2 girls who asked my daughter to contact them through another student at the end of the school year. So these 2 girls start talking to my daughter and she decides to talk to them thinking they were wanting to apologize and mend fences. Nope!! They proceeded to tell my daughter how they felt hurt and abandoned that my daughter was not more sensitive to their feelings and that my daughter needs to apologize and even went so far as to send a list of 10 different reasons why their feelings were hurt and why my daughter was wrong on all counts. My daughter fired back and reminded them of the horrible harrassment she endured by an unknown person which was terrifying and that when she tried to talk to them and needed their friendship they ignored her and turned their backs saying they were too mad at my daughter to help her. They continued to ask for an apology. My daughter said "I did not do anything I need to apologize for". They continued to tell her she did need to apologize and they did not want to be enemies. My daughter eventually offered an apology to bury the hatchet and they ended the conversation telling my daughter "thank you, we are hear if you need to talk"

I find this alarming on so many levels. #1) After all this time the 2 girls are still so obsessed with my daughter that they demand an unjustified apology for something that they most likely are responsible for not my daughter and for something so petty and no where near as aweful as what my daughter went through. #2) The 2 girls (M & O) showed ZERO empathy or remorse or apologetic behavior for not being better friends. #3) My daughter should not have apologized. the fact that she felt forced to is diabolical. I've had discussions with my daughter on doing a better job of sticking up for herself and NEVER apologize for something you did not do!! My daughter suffers from a kind heart and at the end of the day she feels it's better to end on a civil note than a fighting note. I think that's why she gave an apology that was unjustified. #4) The great irony and audacity of the 2 girls to tell my daughter at the end of the chat that "they are there for her whenever she needs them"...ARE YOU KIDDING ME???? These 2 girls were NEVER there for my daughter. They turned their backs on her when she needed them. AND I suspect they had a hand in the false reporting against my daughter ( my daughter did ask them about that and they denied knowing anything about it, of course!).

I feel these 2 girls show an extraordinary level of manipulation!!! It's bullying on a different level. It's false victim mentality to make the other person give in to your demands (making my daughter apologize). These 2 girls are horrible and toxic to the core! I told my daughter all of this. I told her disengage with them, avoid them and have no contact. Perhaps it's better to leave things on a civil note with dangerously toxic people like this anyway. Make them think your friends but have no contact. I may have answered my own question. But if anyone has any insight they'd like to give me on this I'd appreciate it. Thank you.

[Yaowen]

I am sorry this is happening to your daughter and to you too in a sense. Wish I knew what to say to help, but sadly I am at a loss. Hopefully others here will have some good ideas. Sorry I was unable to be helpful to you. My heart goes out to you and I hope your daughter is able to get free of these people.

[Open Eyes]

It’s unfortunate but our children will have to learn that there are toxic people like this out there in the world and they can’t be genuine and nice like she is. The key is learning to not engage and distance. And never believe a person like this is actually capable of genuinely caring where she trusts them with any kind of private information about herself.

[lovethesun]

Thanks for your kind words.

[lovethesun]

Originally Posted by Open Eyes

It’s unfortunate but our children will have to learn that there are toxic people like this out there in the world and they can’t be genuine and nice like she is. The key is learning to not engage and distance. And never believe a person like this is actually capable of genuinely caring where she trusts them with any kind of private information about herself.

Thank you Open Eyes. You're right. It's hard to have to tell my daughter "you can't be that nice", but it's the cold reality when dealing with some people.

[Open Eyes]

These other girls are not the kind of individuals that can be genuine friends. Abusers insist on having all the power and what you shared of them insisting your daughter apologize is what abusers want even though they are the ones that did wrong.

This is an example of behavior that your daughter should learn about and take steps to distance from. Abusers try to Hoover victims back in so they have someone to play out their sick games on.

[divine1966]

Teenagers could be brutal. It’s hard to watch our kids struggling dealing with these mean girls, but at some point they have to learn how to navigate the world without our interference. I wonder if your daughter would benefit from maybe seeing a therapist working on strategies of standing up for herself

[eskielover]

You gave wise counsel to your daughter about this. I hope this will be a foundational learning experience for her to beware of people & learn how to sense abusive people before it gets this fat in the future or at least be more aware & cautious.

I think Divine's suggestion about having an outsider, therapist or trusted family friend talk with her about this also. I know growing up, I tended to dismiss what my parents said but if the same information came from someone else, it kinda validated that what my mom said was probably accurate. Lots I learned on my own because my mom(parents) were pretty clueless about the world our there. Your daughter is lucky to have a wise mom like you

[Rose76]

As soon as your daughter knew who these texts were coming from, she should have completely disengaged. It's just like how the phone company tells you to handle obscene phone calls. You hang up.

Now they are going to contact her again. As long as they can get a response out of her, they are going to continue contacting her. Their intentions are evil. They've learned the trick of getting their foot in the door by hiding behind anonymity. They are just like those callers who say they are from Microsoft Security and want to help you get rid of malware from your computer.

Giving your daughter long explanations is not getting through to her. Tell her to not engage with them, or with anyone whose identity she is not sure of. Then you have to let go a bit. I know it's frustrating to you to see her get pulled back into this nastiness, but the ball is in her court. She will follow your prudent advice, or she will get sucker-punched by these girls again.

You need to put a bit less energy into trying to control this situation. You can't. Give your daughter a bit more room to think for herself. Yes, I agree with everything you delineated. These girls are utterly diabolical. They target your daughter because she is naiive. Giving in to them was not an instance of your daughter beung "kind." She was following the path of least resistance because she is inclined to do that under pressure. The girls know that, and they use that knowledge against her. They are shrewd and clever. They are bored and sadistic. This is how they entertain themselves. They goad each other on.

Maybe it would be good for your daughter to discuss this with someone other than you. You're doing your best. But here she is back communucating with them again, and they are not done with her . . . horrible as that is to contemplate. I think she might benefit from professional counseling. If you're able to arrange that (can be expensive) - do not quiz her about her therapy sessions. She needs to have better boundaries. She even needs boundaries between herself and you. That may be hard for you to hear because you love her very much. She needs to learn more autonomy. That starts at home.

I'm sorry your daughter has to be preyed upon by such awful individuals. These 2 girls are budding, young monsters. A kind person, like your daughter, needs to learn that some persons are simply bad people out to harm others. They are best completely avoided. She will meet more like that. They're out there.

[Rive.]

"Harasser returns--what is this behavior and why?" Because harasser, bullies, abusers don't want to be seen as such - they operate by turning it around so that *they* are the victims. One should not indulge and/or enable this behaviour

Your daughter really should block these girls/numbers and not have anything to do with them i.e. no conversation, no apologies. Otherwise, it's merely feeding these people and giving them what they want.

[Rose76]

A person who is kind and vulnerable may have a basic value that needs to be challenged. Your daughter may have internalized the idea that the way for her to be a "good" person is to go through life assuming that others are good, unless they prove otherwise. That's dangerous, and it's backwards.

Call to her attention some of the stuff that's on the news that reveals how evil humans can be. Teach her that, until someone demonstrates that they are caring and honest, she should not assume anything about them. Any random person standing next to you at a bus stop can possibly be a viscious monster. Children as young as 5 need to be taught that.

It's appropriate to be courteous with any stranger. That doesn't mean opening yourself up. Even with people you don't like and don't trust, it's appropriate to be courteous when circumstances require you to interact with them. With people who you know to be bad, there is little to be gained by telling them you don't like them. It's fine to keep negative opinions quietly to herself. To avoid getting in fights is smart. I know that you know all these things. Kids need to be explicitly taught. Your daughter needs to carry a "shield" with her. Another word is "boundaries."

It's a shame that, even within the sanctuary of your home, wicked people can gain entrance and start pulling crap. That's the world we live in. Your daughter can still be a kind person, but doesn't have to be a foolish person.
Too much innocence is a luxury we can't provide kids today.

[lovethesun]

Thank you Rose76, Rive and everyone who offered suggestions and insight into this situation. I guess not surprisingly, even after my daughter gave the 2 girls the stupid unjustified apology that they wanted, the harassment continued. Two days later, more false pizza orders came to our home from different pizza delivery stores all in my daughter's name, using our address. Orders totalling over $100. I called all the pizza places, spoke to the managers and advised of this targeted harassment against my daughter using their pizza shops. We were not charged for any of the pizza and they were very understanding. The sad part is the mental health affect of this on my daughter. It's humiliating to sit in your room and listen to your parents answer the door to a confused angry pizza deliver guy with tons of food we didnt order and her name is on the ticket. My daughter puts on a brave bravado and claims it doesn't bother her, but I know it's embarrassing and can't be good for self esteem. My daughter also received 2 weird text messages from out of state numbers telling her they heard she likes pizza and the other claimed to be the school she goes to asking if she had the number of the troubled boy my daughter offered kindness to by talking to him which started this whole thing.

Here's what I did. I contacted police and advised of the situation. Gave police all the out of state numbers that contacted us and ordered pizza. Also advised of previous harassment in March and gave police resource officer's name at school who investigated this previously. police are now investigating this. Also had my daughter block the numbers of the 2 girls plus the out of state numbers sending weird messages. I might have my daughter change her phone number but she is resisting me on that so far. I told my daughter never talk to the 2 girls again. Ignore any communication.

My thoughts on this. First of all whoever is doing this is a coward hiding in shadows. I've thought about calling the parents of the 2 girls, but they've denied all knowledge and played innocent when my daughter confronted them on the phone, they'll certainly do that with their parents. And parents always side with their kid and act like they are angels and blameless so I've got a 90% chance of getting no where with that. I think this possibly goes back to one of the 2 girls having a crush on the troubled boy and they think my daughter has his attention or something (she does not) and so they are harassing out of jealousy. one of the girls has a very strange intense hatred of the troubled boy even though he's never talked to her. She kept telling my daughter she needed to "protect" my daughter from him. That's how the harassment started. She was texting my daughter saying she was "checking on" my daughter. Very odd, very twisted, and very evil. It's jealousy disguised as "caring" and then punishment carried out anonymously towards my daughter. If this is the behavior of this girl as a kid, I shake with fear at the kind of adult she will be. Downright scary as heck! Most kids her age are getting a summer job, hanging out with friends. My daughter told me she did not make it clear that she was not talking to the troubled boy anymore so maybe this girl thinks my daughter is thus harassment continues. I don't know. But it begs the question....what freaking business is it of this girl's as to who my daughter talks to? She has a right to talk to anyone she wants. Why is she being subjected to this torment for talking to the troubled boy?

[eskielover]

May be a good time to engage your daughter in a discussion & see how she would think to handle the situation now that you have taken action. Let her talk & really express her self on what she really thinks. That will be an indicator of what she has really learned from the situation. Can usually pull conversation out when they are asked questions rather than being talked at. Never good to assume what they feel or what they have learned

[Rose76]

I think you did well to call police. These girls are no better than those who rob convenience stores. They're worse. They stole pizzas that they don't even want.

Your daughter must not give them any attention.

[AzulOscuro]

It’s so easy to show a undesirable behaviour on the net. The idea to talk with a school counsellor is ideal because this way, your daughter will be able to see that another person apart from you (her mother) share the same idea and solution and she will be able to express whatever she feels about this situation.

You are doing a great job, though. 😀 It’s very important what you are doing. Telling your daughter that there are people who are abusers ( or puntual abusers- you know- these girls are also learning and dealing with adolescence which is a hard time for them all)

I’m not a mum. All I can say is from my experience to deal with kids at school. I neither can put myself in your shoes, dealing with the current world with a teenager. It’s so scary. I give all the credit.
All I know is that teenagers like to be told the true and value to have some sort of space to make their own mistakes. They are looking for their place.
Only, this topic of harassment in the net or being bullied at school is such a tough topic. Noone deserves to go through it. And it’s very important the dialogue you are having with your girl. I would say, go on this way. Ask her what you can do in regards. She will know you are there to treat this topic or whatever topic.

The fact that your daughter has a kind heart is due to you and it doesn’t mean other people is gonna take advantages of her, she’s to learn thar there are people who needs to evolve and have lacks they are still to feed.

It’s hard to say what is happening to these two girls but I’m sure something lacks in their lives. They don’t have a sane self-esteem, that’s for sure. They need to show sort of control onto others, the control their lives lack.

[Bill3]

Good job contacting the police!

[Mendingmysoul]

Hope this issue resolves .Praying for you.Hugs.

[lovethesun]

****UPDATE to this situation 7/19/22***

Well, after all that I did and after the apology my daughter gave to the 2 girls.....guess what? Just a few days later, my daughter gets another text message from a Boston cell phone saying "I hear you like pizza", then an hour after that here comes another pizza order to our door from this harasser. We did not have to pay for it obviously and once again the pizza place was understanding. But my gosh!!! It's so stupid and annoying!! I once again called the manager of the 3 closest pizza places to us that these orders have been coming into and said "DO NOT take these orders! We are being targeted by a harasser and police have been notified" I found out from one manager they had a $100 order come in to them with the same names and numbers and immediately cancelled the order. So at least some of them are hearing me and wising up! Then I sit in shock realizing I'm spending my time calling pizza places because of these sick people. All incidents have stopped now. But not sure if it's because it's summer and the 2 girls may be out of town on family vacations or if they simply have grown tired of this.

I'm hoping this will stop for good. My daughter has both the girl's numbers blocked. Police were not really able to do anything unless they could track a credit card or something. Pizza places don't care to prosecute or investigate. We have not been forced to pay for anything aside from the annoyance of it all. It's concerning that my daughter was texted by an out of state number. For a brief moment I wondered if this could be some kind of child sex ring trying to lure my daughter in. But if anything they've pissed my daughter off so I don't think that theory holds much weight.

Only thing I have not done is call the parents of the two girls. I feel they would not be much help. There is no proof that traces this back to their kids and their kids are lying through their teeth to my daughter saying "we have not clue who is doing that. We care about you and would tell you if we knew". I feel they are connected to it because a pizza order arrives after each time my daughter has talked to them. But with no hard proof and 2 kids denying it and acting like they are "friends", who will the parents side with? Certainly not me!! Their own child will reign supreme over me. And I fear all I'll get is "Sorry this is happening to your daughter. My daughter is not aware of anything. Have a nice day."

I'm kind of at a dead end. As I said, I hope it stops for good. The pizza shops are wising up to it and it has to be getting old for the jerk doing this. Feel free to send me any further thoughts on this. In the meantime I'm going to work on my daughter's social awkwardness. I believe that makes her a target for these kinds of people. If you have any suggestions on how to diminish social awkwardness let me know. My daughter can come across as different to some people as she tends to be a quiet person but gets mad easily and over reacts.

[Molinit]

Stop wasting energy investigating this. Her phone number needs to be changed and she should give it to only a couple of people and she shouldn't be texting anyone else. At this point, there is no good reason to continue having the same phone number. If you don't change the number, you are allowing this to continue.

[eskielover]

Also, phone company told me one time, people can make up the phone number that shows where the call is coming from.....from any state they want so the call can't be traced.

I agree with Molinit. Change everything & start a new fresh chapter in yours & your daughters life learning from the past experience but not holding onto it

[Bill3]

I agree that phone numbers should be changed at once--taking care to be sure that those other numbers remain blocked.

In the meantime I'm going to work on my daughter's social awkwardness. I believe that makes her a target for these kinds of people. If you have any suggestions on how to diminish social awkwardness let me know. My daughter can come across as different to some people as she tends to be a quiet person but gets mad easily and over reacts.

This might be a little tricky.

The main thing, in my view, is to avoid giving her the impression that these events show that she needs to be worked on. She might hear that as being blamed for the problems--"If only I weren't so socially awkward this wouldn't have happened."

My suggestion is to say that you recommend that she see a therapist to help her talk about and deal with what happened. A good therapist will figure out that your daughter can use help with social awkwardness, and help her accordingly.

[MuseumGhost]

Hi and just want to say, I can relate to your daughter so much. I'm a grown woman, but I remember my teen years, vividly.

I agree with Bill3---try and get your daughter engaged with some new people---maybe art classes, or something else she might enjoy. Success in areas not directly tied to school will give her the confidence boost she might need. I know it did for me.

Point out to her that you value her kindness, and that you understand her not wanting to be a jerk to these girls. Give her validation, without chiding her for it. Point out that not everybody is raised with the same values as her; and that while she might be inclined to continue to tolerate them, hoping they will change, that might not be the best avenue for her, psychologically.

It literally took me YEARS to snap out of that kind of thinking. It would have been so much better for me to hear it from a a trusted adult. Teenagers are at a stage where they are formulating and cementing their value systems. They can handle many more adult concepts than they are given credit for. Show her a more mature way to think about this, including the talk about how good it is to have boundaries; and emphasize how important, and okay it is to be self-protective about all of this.

Being rejected from this ugly little duo is a far better outcome than her going through life trying to keep the peace by "pleasing" everybody---or at least, not offending them. That kind of thinking got me nothing but torment by bullying, narcissistic types until just a few years ago. They zero-in on kind individuals, and they are reluctant to let them go (because they feed on the pain and confusion they cause). There is no changing them. They either get punched out by bigger bullies, or they grow up to be monsters. Trust me on this. They are not her friends. She needs encouragement to visualize her life without them in it.

She also might be afraid of her own anger. Talk to her about acceptable and unacceptable ways of standing up for yourself. Maybe steer her towards an outdoor physical activity that can help her re-direct some of her emotions. Exercise oxygenates the mind, improves our nervous system, and can put a lot of things in perspective for us. (In other words, set aside time every day where she is not attached to her phone. Get her doing other things.)

You're a good mom! I know you can get through this.

[Mendingmysoul]

You are probably right in saying that those girls parents may deny it all if confronted with.But do they even know about what their girls are upto?I mean girls are that malicious at this tender age,I shudder thinking how toxic they will be in their adulthood and imagining how much trauma they will heap on innocents. Non intervention of those parents and non correction of those girls behaviours is angering me so much.I feel for you ,how much time and energy you are needing to put into this,but you have to for your own daughter's sake.I admire you for that.

[AzulOscuro]

Tell her to avoid any contact with these to girls. She can’t be alone with them. Only, reduce contact in public when she can’t avoid stay with them in the classroom or in the playground.
I don’t want to scare you, only it’s needed to take cautions (one never knows, just in case, as a remote possibility to be harm by them) Better to avoid risks.

[eskielover]

In the meantime I'm going to work on my daughter's social awkwardness. I believe that makes her a target for these kinds of people. If you have any suggestions on how to diminish social awkwardness let me know.

My mother was socially awkward most of her life & most of my life while I lived at home. She was very self- conscious & didn't drive or work & my dad took her everywhere. When I was 16, she learned to drive & got her license when I did & I think that was when she started feeling better about herself. Then when I was 21, she got a job as a teller at the local bank. That was a real boost in her confidence & she had to relate with the public. She always had some issues with social awkwardness but go figure, it also got better after my dad died & she started getting involved in things that interested her & people started recognizing her for who she was. It was a slow process but in reality, no one can improve the problem areas in their lives faster than they are capable. The things they get involved in have to be things that interest them & a lot of times the change happens without our even realizing it & we are just comfortable in places we weren't before.

(BTW, my dad never was not socially awkward.....I have my theories.....he died in 1989, long before some issues were ever diagnosed....I think my dad's social awkwardness also had its effects on my mom cause I know it effected me though I pushed it away from me & got involved in so many school activities where I could just be myself & Excell at the things I liked).

Lol....we didn't have therapists back in those days but they sure are awesome to work through things with for kids because figuring stuff out all on your own isn't easy