Challenging Family Relationships

What you describe Tisha reminds me of my mother who wanted my father to see her and be more emotionally available. He always fell short, even when I tried to explain to him, he just could not provide her with the kind of romance she wanted from him.

My parents were conservative, however, my mother was one of many who was unknowingly influenced by many liberal messages produced by old Hollywood that seduced so many women into the glamour and romance and magic that even the gifted actors themselves never achieved in reality. In reality many of these talented artistic individuals lived very challenged lives.

I have been reading the thread and following along. And I agree that your husband is emotionally abusive.

He knows what you want, you've been fighting about it for decades, and still he neglects to give you the one thing you ask for, which IS deliberate on his end.

He knows exactly what he's doing, and he knows how it effects you - how could he not at this stage? If you've said it to him in 100 different languages, OF COURSE he understands you! He's fooling you into thinking he doesn't! AND, he gaslights you, which is also deliberate AND an abuse tactic. Gaslighting is deliberate.

I agree that you have two options: either accept that he will never give you the one thing you are asking for and find other ways to be happy, OR you give up on the relationship and get out of it.

Tisha, I finally left my abusive husband - for the final time. And guess what? Yes, it's scary because I'm 52 and starting over and yes, I am alone and have bouts of loneliness. BUT, I get out, I meet people, I feel much more like myself since leaving him, I feel my true self coming back to life - as though the happy cells are coming to life within my whole body - I have freedom I did not have while under his thumb, and my self esteem is coming back.... ultimately, I feel GOOD, and I am FAR HAPPIER.

So, yes, while it can be scary to start over, the price you pay for staying in an abusive marriage is quite high. You live in misery and you live with neglect. I did, too. An abusive marriage deteriorates your mental health.

I am just telling you my experience after having left an abusive marriage... it doesn't mean that you must leave, only you can decide that, but I see the two options above for you.

Tisha, did you listen to the next discussion titled “are you dating a narcissist”?

I feel like there are two major political parties because people love team mentality, an us vs them psychology. It keeps things interesting.

I agree, it is like I need a fantasy from the movies to feel love. But, it’s really not a grand gesture that I need, it is genuine emotional availability. For me, it feels like it is phoney or empty with him. It was not this way with him in the beginning. It became this way with him because his attitude changed. He was put through the wringer at his job and was obsessed and angry about that, so stopped feeling sensual- the honeymoon was over. Then it was me feeling off about the physical after childbirth. Something went awry in me physically and emotionally.

Hi HH!
I’m glad you are in a good place now. I know we had some things in common in our intimate relationships. And lately we’ve learned so much more about narcissism, it’s mind blowing.

That question about if he is the most Machiavellian person in the world to intentionally gaslight me like this, or if he has some kind of cognitive disorder is really perplexing. I don’t think he is either. He isn’t that great an actor to be the evil, intentional abuser. He doesn’t have cognitive distortion in most other areas of his life, though he perceives some things surprisingly farther from the mark than I think I do. He does have pretty bad social anxiety.

Have you seen Groundhog Day? It is something like that with him, where he keeps doing something over and over but just missing the mark.

I would like to have the radical acceptance that it is what it is and go find fulfillment elsewhere. But I have never been able and am still not able because it still just happened again. I am not able to diffuse my trigger I get from his inaction/lacking. It triggers me to get angry, disappointed and upset. I shouldn’t have to even keep trying to tolerate an unfulfilling relationship like this. Especially a relationship that triggers me to the point I got diagnosed with a mood disorder!*(but this was by a doctor who also saw my husband and I question his honesty and accuracy, but maybe he is right idk.

I’ve watched nearly ALL the videos. Sam Vaknin is the professor/psychologist who coined the phrases “narcissistic abuse” and “flying monkeys”. There are videos by him on everything psychology, especially cluster b. But, warning, the things he says are grim and devastating. He doesn’t sugar coat it and the prognosis is generally very bad for narcissism.

From what I’ve learned, my FOO had generational trauma, there is plenty of narcissistic traits with really dysfunctional behaviors, there is much anxiety and depression. I am genetically and behaviorally exposed to things that have affected me. But, I am glad to say, I have managed to do extremely well in spite of all that! While I am in a toxic relationship making me miserable, I have been a person who did life in a very traditional way; a wife, mother, and I didn’t do anything intentionally or really hurtful to anyone, ever. Just some bad choices sometimes when I was very young, but still not so terrible. I took an inventory of all my actions while examining this whole situation to see how much of it is me, and I am fine with my behavior in every other relationship/friendship/ work experience, I’ve ever had.

It sounds like your husband’s ego was damaged by what he experienced at his job and he was no longer the center of attention with you when you had your child.

Sometimes what you described creates a shut down that a man is not even aware of. Men can have a hard time with emotions, they hate feeling vulnerable. Most men are not nurtured where they are allowed to have emotions and be ok with feeling. Instead they tend to be encouraged to man up and ignore their feelings. This tends to make them pull away from a woman’s emotional needs because it makes them uncomfortable.

One of the things that concerns me is how quickly people use the label narcissist because they want that black and white answer to why there are challenges in a relationship. There tends to be a lot of pressure on men to fill certain expectations.

Well you know in therapy they say you cannot change the other person, you can only change yourself. And in one of your recent posts, you said you engage in some kind of self-harming behavior. Maybe that is the place to start - changing that behavior. Cuz otherwise, you seem to be putting the blame / responsibility for your behavior on him. I see 1. You ask 2. He fails 3. You self-harm.

Remember the Serenity Prayer: Grant me the serenity to accept the things i cannot change, the courage to change the things i can, and the wisdom to know the difference.

Or the alternate version: Grant me the coffee to change the things i can, and the wine to accept the things i cant change.

Hello Tisha! I mentioned this on your other thread, but it's great to have you back!

A question I pose to you is this: Is he different in public and with his family and friends than he is with you? Does he show you one side and the public a far better & more respectful side? If he does, and if he seems to have one personality that is great and for the public, and another that is hurtful but only behind closed doors and with you, then you know for certain that you are dealing with an abuser. If he harms other people too, friends or his family members, then it's not just exclusive behavior with you and it may be more a part of his personality and like you said, a cognitive distortion of sorts. However, abusers CAN control how they behave and they save all of their abusive behaviors for their victims at home, behind closed doors. And then they turn it off like a switch when they are in public or with their friends and then they turn on the charm. You see the charming side of them come out.

And yes, I've seen Groundhog Day! Love that movie! And yes, I understand - you've been in this position many times and for a long time now - over and over again, the pattern repeats itself.

Your trigger is your body and spirit telling you that you do not like the behaviors you are experiencing. The behaviors are harmful to you, they hurt you and upset you - those feelings are 100% valid. Sometimes, it's impossible to change how we react, but we can change how we respond to our emotional reactions and to others when we are triggered. This we CAN control.

And no, you should not have to put up with such an unfulfilling relationship. There's so much happiness that you could have, that this relationship is not providing you with.

That's my two cents for right now.

He was raised by parents who showed little emotion. He made it his style to show no emotion in his job for self preservation. Although he likes humor and can lol, he doesn’t show empathic emotion much.

The relationship was a power imbalance. He was the boss and I the worker. He wasn’t mean and demanding about that. It was an unspoken agreement. I picked up on his unspoken wants and did it because I wanted the relationship, knew if I didn’t he’d find someone else who would. But I did want it to feel real and satisfying to me, to my soul. I asked for too much. It became an obsession which turned into me having weekly meltdown episodes.

CoDA is a 12 step program with the Serenity Prayer, just like AA. Yeah, I am an addict. I need to make amends to everyone I hurt. To all here, I am sorry for my obsessive whining about my situation that is the trigger for my misery. I am the problem and I need a 12 step program for healing.

My sister told me yesterday that our mother would complain to her about how I kept crying to our mother about my unhappiness with my husband. Sister said Mom was annoyed that I kept upsetting HER. This is how my FOO helped me get out of a bad, dangerous, harmful situation- they dissed me behind my back.

Great questions!
Neither of us are different or only respectful in public, or with other people. He is extremely polite. It is this problem with intimacy that I am the one having. I am the origin of the problem because I don’t feel right about it, it doesn’t feel right because he acts so strange, vacant. The whole thing has been off the rails. It is a routine of a cycle of abuse, emotional abuse as sexual function.

1. Tension builds. We both know it is looming that sex will be approached. It is anxiety provoking. Anyone would be anxious in this repetitive cycle.
2. It falls flat. Either he does nothing, or I do nothing, or he does something horribly awkward and anxious or I just have an anxious outburst.
3. I get dysregulated upset. Crying, disappointed, angry, wanting to end dysfunctional relationship
4. I sometimes self medicate. In the past this was worse, to the point of dangerous. He contributed to it, still does, but I won’t let it get worse. He was pushing it to be worse, more unhealthy for me. It is me who stopped myself from SH, kept it non addictive, non lethal.
5. Then, in the past, this hasn’t happened for a long time now, he suddenly was passionate with no anxiety, no issues. But typically, it is me who just goes and initiates sex. It’s fine. We both feel good.
6. I am optimistic our problem will improve moving forward. Maybe he’s learned, as he said he did. But back to step 1 we go.

Meanwhile, life outside of this behind closed doors abuse is seemingly normal.

Over our years together, he also didn’t have my back to defend me the few times that ever happened to me. He betrayed me in that way one time where he chose someone over me who was extremely hurtful to me. He also was financially abusive at one point for several years. It wasn’t that he wasn’t letting me spend any money or anything like that. It was him passive aggressively asserting control by withholding it in a big way, not cool at all to me, which I protested constantly. To which he said he would stop, but then just didn’t, stonewalled. He did this while we were “trying to fix” our intimacy issue. These were very sore issues for me of some things that he did that were rotten to me. But that was it over our 30 year marriage. For the most part he is a nice person, who does nothing outright harmful, hateful. Except the man watched me cry hysterically and rant in anger at him and just kept doing it to me and watching me meltdown!

Oh, and he tortured me with holidays by never understanding what to do or just doing something for me. This was also a chronic misunderstanding that was off the tracks. But, he has gotten better this year. All I had asked was the most simple expectation from him, but he habitually disappointed. Then he would go far out of his way to do something special, like a really nice, unique gift this one year or two. So, this was a source of struggle with us, too. It wasn’t me being a demanding person impossible to please. It was him just not simply doing the expected actions, the typical, nice, normally done actions.

And this struggle, holidays, also caused me the crying meltdowns.

This is his upbringing and why he struggles to understand your emotional needs. It’s not a narcissistic intentional but more in lack of understanding that can at times lead to him withdrawing. Yet mostly due to a personal discomfort then of malice. How old is he?

Thanks for more of the specifics, TIsha.

Unfortunately, I don't see the issues changing or improving.

You have been trying to make this better for years now, and the cycle hasn't improved. You've tried therapy, and that hasn't changed anything So, what's next?

Do you still love him? And what do you love about him? What does he do that works well for you? Do the negatives outweigh the positives, or do the positives outweigh the negatives? You don't have to answer, I am just asking you these questions to help you think about it.

Many of the things you describe are bothersome and to me are unacceptable. I especially don't like that he didn't have your back, that he has encouraged you to self harm, that he continues on with his antics while you're having a meltdown, that he abused you financially, all of his gaslighting, and that he won't lift a finger to make romantic efforts when you ask him to.

I can only imagine how you must feel having dealt with all of this.

How you doing @TishaBuv?

It has been with my boyfriend's youngest brother.First time I met his family,he reacted asking him why he was dating a midget which I find this word 100% offensive since it is also offensive to people with dwarfism.Boyfriend's parents,younger sister and older brother including my boyfriend were not too happy with him and were on my side.He does not understand anything about my pituritary dwarfism.

Thanks for asking, HH.

I’m a lost fart in a windstorm.

Actually, that was an expression my sister S made up, and a running joke in our family.

My husband and I are hunkered down in an apartment, basically just watching constant tv. The pandemic didn’t help. I need to figure out something to do with myself to individuate.

An opportunity has just arisen. My son, who is about to have a baby, asked if we would be willing to baby sit a few days a week so they both can work. He texted that question to my h, who had texted him to ask if she was in labor yet. My h’s attitude is one of feeling put upon, not wanting to baby sit. He didn’t want to “baby sit” his own kids. And yes, he did call it “baby sit”.

He tried to involve me in the text, and I told him I would speak to my son and DIL at a later time myself.

I’m actually very happy about the idea, that they asked, that they want my involvement, that I can have involvement with my son and grandchild. I am also seeing this as an opportunity to individuate from my husband. I was thinking I could get a job, and this could essentially be a job for me.

I plan to discuss it with them to see what they have in mind. I am being very cautions because I do not want anything to become problematic. The last thing I want is a rift with them.

I’m imagining I would be spending time in their house with the baby. I would like to do this without my husband being there. He could stay home or do whatever he wants and I could be over there.

Couple days a week is a great plan. My former, now retired, coworker watches her grand babies one or two days a week. She loves it. Anything more than few days would be too much. It’s exciting.

We babysit our 7 year old granddaughter (she is my step but we don’t call it that) every other weekend. My stepdaughter is single mom and has extra job on the weekends. It’s fun. My grandson lives way too far to babysit regularly. I do when I travel to them.

But otherwise if that doesn’t work, part time job is a good idea too. Sitting home together is great here and there. All day every day might not be best.

Hope you come with something. Can’t wait to hear when the baby is born. Is it a boy?

It’s wonderful that your son and daughter in law want you involved with your new grandchild.
I think it’s best to wait until after the baby is born and the mother has had time to adjust to being a new mother. It is not unusual for a new mother to get very possessive and protective once the birth has taken place. It’s best not to make work plans until mother has had adequate time being a new mom. It’s something one has to experience to understand.

It has been proven that mother child bonding is a very important part of healthy development in a baby. It’s NOW recognized through a great deal of study that early bonding is very important so this is not just my personal opinion.

The best way to handle this is to respond with showing respect for the mother and that you would rather move slowly based on her comfort level. Men don’t understand this, it’s not anything they experience first hand.

Allow her to have the say and proceed very carefully and gradually. If the wife is happy your son will be happy 😉

Does your daughter in law plan on breast feeding? I recently read how they have learned how breast feeding actually reduces the risk of breast cancer. I now wish I had saved that article.

She’s going to breastfeed, but I haven’t discussed anything much about it with her. I know they are giving her 3 months maternity leave, which is great.

I’m glad you were all supportive of the idea of me watching the baby.

More tears with the lack, the emptiness from him this morning. But I suppress the anger, frustration. No more of that from me, not a good look.

Does your husband have any hobbies? Is he active with anything?