[Downtroddenred]

Hi, I’m not sure this is the correct forum but I really wasn’t sure what the correct form is. I’m having a problem with my 76-year-old tenant/Neighbor/Friend. It goes pretty deep, she has lived in my rental property which is attached to my house, for 21 years. Over those 21 years we have become close, we’ve been friendly. She’s watched my children grow up. I always knew that the rental was a business for us a source of income and I would try to keep my distance but she essentially made it impossible. She was disowned by her own children and had no relationship with her grandchildren the entire time she was living with us. To this day I still don’t know what caused it. She’s been living there on an extremely fixed rate, approximately $400 less than the average going rate. The apartment is very old and dated, everything in it as from the 1960s or 70s. We recently discovered it needed a major fix that was going to cost a lot of money. While we were over there we noticed some safety concerns due to her age, and also the fact that she drinks every night while she’s on medication which we all know is a big no-no. My husband and I came to the conclusion we just can’t have her there anymore. I contacted my local office for the aging who assured me there was plenty of housing for people on a fixed income in our area. But they failed to mention was that the waiting list was 1 to 2 years long. We went over and we talk to her, and we were met with hostility and resentment. But she got legal aid. So we went to her lawyer and we had formal papers drawn up and served to her. These papers gave her a 90 day notice, but we verbally told her we did not want to take her to eviction court and we would give her more time as long as she could prove to us that she was actively looking and trying to secure an apartment.
She has been so upset, crying, hysterical. And I absolutely feel awful, I feel sick every day over it. I totally feel backed into a corner of either keeping her there and risking fire and severe financial hardship or getting rid of her. My husband absolutely wants her to go -he hasn’t wanted her there in a long time we’ve had a few issues over the years that have certainly been challenging. For example she’s never been clean and we had a very bad mouse problem a few years ago because of it. Regardless of how many times we would go in there and tell her she had to clean she would say she couldn’t due to her back, her knee, etc. she frequently ignores or doesn’t care the garbage and recycling rules. Many times she puts inappropriate things in the recycling, things trust me you don’t want to know what they were. When she can’t walk to the garbage she just throws it outside on the front walkway and it will sit there for hours until I get home to take care of it. I have specifically asked her not to because little animals get in it and then obviously flies and we get maggots. My husband and I are almost 50 years old. We’re tired too. I know that she will be better off physically in a senior living complex . No stairs, laundry on site etc. however, she’s going to pay considerably more. Going to have to change her lifestyle, she’s going to have to get used to having people above her and next to her -she’s pretty secluded and quiet now.
I just don’t know how to handle this. I did consider her a friend. I think she viewed me as a stand in daughter for her absent ones. We’ve been more than kind to her for over 20 years and treated her very well. I will miss seeing her. But I know this is the right thing for us I would like to still have a relationship with her when this is all over but I don’t think that she’s going to go for it. I don’t know exactly what I’m asking for here, what advice anyone can give me. I guess I want some reassurance that I’m not the most awful person in the world and that I am going to go straight to hell.

[Molinit]

Oh, the relationship is over. Proceed with the eviction, don’t offer more time. If she has Legal Aid, then they will assist her through the process.

[divine1966]

I understand how hard it’s for you. It’s stressful and you likely feel like a villain. What if you suggest you’ll help her to find a place. Find couple of options and if she refuses, then you’ll know you have to evict. Or maybe she’d be interested. She does have legal representation so she should get some good advice too. You aren’t obligated to house her or anyone else and as long as you help her with ideas and options, give her time to look and pack, and follow procedures, you are not in the wrong

[Downtroddenred]

Originally Posted by Molinit

Oh, the relationship is over. Proceed with the eviction, don’t offer more time. If she has Legal Aid, then they will assist her through the process.

Unfortunately, you are probably right. And while I can accept it, it’s still very hard. I truly want what’s best for her.

[Downtroddenred]

Originally Posted by divine1966

I understand how hard it’s for you. It’s stressful and you likely feel like a villain. What if you suggest you’ll help her to find a place. Find couple of options and if she refuses, then you’ll know you have to evict. Or maybe she’d be interested. She does have legal representation so she should get some good advice too. You aren’t obligated to house her or anyone else and as long as you help her with ideas and options, give her time to look and pack, and follow procedures, you are not in the wrong

Thanks. Yep I sure do feel like a villain. We suggested a few places. The problem is she’s on a fixed income and we’re in New York where rents are ridiculous right now. Due to her age she really wants to stay in town. Not be outside of town. She wants to be close to the store, doctor, pharmacy which I understand. These are the places that have waiting lists one to two years. We did things legally we gave her three months formal notice. We cannot evict her until after the three months is up. We verbally told her if she needed longer that we would give her longer but we cannot give her one to two years. We offered to help her pack, we offered to help her move just not her furniture as we do not have a truck. She responded with threats and she also called our local state assemblyman. Of course this angered my husband and he does not want to give her the extra time or help her anymore.

[*Beth*]

She sounds far from an ideal tenant, but she's probably terrified.

[Open Eyes]

It’s not easy to rent. People renting resent any increases in rent and always try to manipulate keeping their rent down. Also when they do leave they often leave a mess where everything needs to be updated and painted.

You really have to keep rentals a business relationship. You are learning one of those hard life lessons. My daughter has rented and learned her fair share of lessons. Renting isn’t for everyone.

From what you describe this rental has too many hazards and needs updating which means spending money. You have a right to charge rent with currant rental rates especially with your rental being in such a desirable location.

[Open Eyes]

As far as trying to help her find another rental? I think you will just run into her being unhappy with what ever you find and you will just be stressed.

[divine1966]

Originally Posted by Downtroddenred

Thanks. Yep I sure do feel like a villain. We suggested a few places. The problem is she’s on a fixed income and we’re in New York where rents are ridiculous right now. Due to her age she really wants to stay in town. Not be outside of town. She wants to be close to the store, doctor, pharmacy which I understand. These are the places that have waiting lists one to two years. We did things legally we gave her three months formal notice. We cannot evict her until after the three months is up. We verbally told her if she needed longer that we would give her longer but we cannot give her one to two years. We offered to help her pack, we offered to help her move just not her furniture as we do not have a truck. She responded with threats and she also called our local state assemblyman. Of course this angered my husband and he does not want to give her the extra time or help her anymore.

I understand how you feel. You got to take care of your own family and you do need this person to go but you are a kind hearted person and it’s not that simple for you. Somebody cold hearted wouldn’t have an issue with the situation and be like “yup not your problem”. But it’s not you. You understandably lost your sleep over it.

If she called your local state government, then maybe they can help her to find a place sooner. Her threats are pointless. She needs to put energy into finding low income housing. Sadly she might have to stay in a shelter until place opens up… in fact sometimes it would expedite finding a place. I wonder if it’s an option.

[Downtroddenred]

Originally Posted by *Beth*

She sounds far from an ideal tenant, but she's probably terrified.

Correct. I’m not even sure how much of a good person she was in her life. For her daughters to disown her, I cannot imagine that. She has lost most of her friends. But I still don’t feel that she deserves to be homeless. Hoping we can figure something out. The fact that she’s 76 and disabled does not help the matter.

[Downtroddenred]

Originally Posted by Open Eyes

It’s not easy to rent. People renting resent any increases in rent and always try to manipulate keeping their rent down. Also when they do leave they often leave a mess where everything needs to be updated and painted.

You really have to keep rentals a business relationship. You are learning one of those hard life lessons. My daughter has rented and learned her fair share of lessons. Renting isn’t for everyone.

From what you describe this rental has too many hazards and needs updating which means spending money. You have a right to charge rent with currant rental rates especially with your rental being in such a desirable location.

Absolutely that is a lesson I have learned. A rental is a business, just that. We don’t have any plans on renting it out unless it’s to family in the next few years. For example one of my teenage sons, etc. Only extreme financial hardship will drive us to rent it out- we definitely need a break from being landlords.

[Downtroddenred]

Originally Posted by Open Eyes

As far as trying to help her find another rental? I think you will just run into her being unhappy with what ever you find and you will just be stressed.

You are probably correct. I’m going to touch base with her a few days to see how she’s making out in her search.

[Downtroddenred]

Originally Posted by divine1966

I understand how you feel. You got to take care of your own family and you do need this person to go but you are a kind hearted person and it’s not that simple for you. Somebody cold hearted wouldn’t have an issue with the situation and be like “yup not your problem”. But it’s not you. You understandably lost your sleep over it.

If she called your local state government, then maybe they can help her to find a place sooner. Her threats are pointless. She needs to put energy into finding low income housing. Sadly she might have to stay in a shelter until place opens up… in fact sometimes it would expedite finding a place. I wonder if it’s an option.

Unfortunately, we live in such a rural area that there is no shelters. When it’s extremely cold our local churches open up for the homeless. I absolutely agree she should be focused on finding a place. I don’t know how these things work- I don’t know if being moved to the top of the list because you’re in the emergency situation is an option. I’ve been avoiding her at all costs, which is tricky because our front doors are side-by-side. I feel like a coward as I hide by my door to listen and see if she’s getting ready to go out. I’m going to put my big girl panties on and check in with her later on in the week and see how things are going.

[divine1966]

Originally Posted by Downtroddenred

Unfortunately, we live in such a rural area that there is no shelters. When it’s extremely cold our local churches open up for the homeless. I absolutely agree she should be focused on finding a place. I don’t know how these things work- I don’t know if being moved to the top of the list because you’re in the emergency situation is an option. I’ve been avoiding her at all costs, which is tricky because our front doors are side-by-side. I feel like a coward as I hide by my door to listen and see if she’s getting ready to go out. I’m going to put my big girl panties on and check in with her later on in the week and see how things are going.

Most people I heard of in the situation of needing low income housing in a hurry, they were prioritized if they were in a shelter rather than have any other type of dwellings. But I get it is different in a rural area. I misread that you are in NYC.

You aren’t a coward. It’s stressful. Checking up on her is a good plan. No harm in that. Be safe though in case she gets out of control. Perhaps phone call is safer than knocking on the door

[ArmorPlate108]

This is a very difficult situation. I'm so sorry you find yourself having to deal with it. You obviously have a lot of compassion for her and it bothers you to cause her distress, but at the same time, you do need to have that option to do what's right for you.

ITA with Beth that she is probably terrified. Having gone through something similar at age 30 with a spouse to assist, it was overwhelming then, I can't imagine doing it at her age and alone.

I'm not sure if anybody else mentioned this, but some states have a "council for the aging" or some other organization that's designed to help seniors. Maybe if she doesn't seem to be able to get a handle on the situation within a few months, your state has an organization like that you could contact on her behalf? Given what you've written here, I think I'd feel more comfortable involving a third party assistance rather than trying to help her directly.

[*Beth*]

Wow. 76 is old to have to go through such an enormous change. It really does seem that in a state as progressive as NY there must be agencies that can assist.

[Downtroddenred]

Originally Posted by ArmorPlate108

This is a very difficult situation. I'm so sorry you find yourself having to deal with it. You obviously have a lot of compassion for her and it bothers you to cause her distress, but at the same time, you do need to have that option to do what's right for you.

ITA with Beth that she is probably terrified. Having gone through something similar at age 30 with a spouse to assist, it was overwhelming then, I can't imagine doing it at her age and alone.

I'm not sure if anybody else mentioned this, but some states have a "council for the aging" or some other organization that's designed to help seniors. Maybe if she doesn't seem to be able to get a handle on the situation within a few months, your state has an organization like that you could contact on her behalf? Given what you've written here, I think I'd feel more comfortable involving a third party assistance rather than trying to help her directly.

I wish we had more services available to help her. Before my husband and I even came to the decision to remove her we contacted our local office for the aging. They really weren’t that helpful. When I hung up and I actually told my husband and my sister I can’t believe this is what our seniors have to turn to. We used to have a local grassroots organization that could’ve been helpful but they shut down when Covid hit and haven’t reopened. I absolutely would feel more comfortable with a third-party helping her.

[Downtroddenred]

Originally Posted by *Beth*

Wow. 76 is old to have to go through such an enormous change. It really does seem that in a state as progressive as NY there must be agencies that can assist.

Trust me, her age is part of what makes this so difficult. She threw out a lot of responses to the effect of “would you do this to your own mother? How could you treat family like this? I thought I was family, etc.”
I could literally see myself being in her situation and I can’t imagine how I would get through it. This is causing me a tremendous amount of anxiety. I believe in karma and I believe I have ruined mine. I know she is overwhelmed. The lack of services in our area make it 10 times worse.
There are a few agencies that can offer assistance but it appears that her income, although small, is still too great for most services. I just found out within the last 24 hours that she technically does not qualify for legal aid but I guess they are considering helping her anyway. She collects her own pension, her husbands pension, and Social Security. One would think in a state like New York there should be some thing. But we are in a small rural county in central New York. We are a very poor county. You have to drive 45 minutes to get to a Target. You need to drive 45 minutes to see any kind of specialist doctor.
When I called the local office for the aging I inquired if there was any services that could help her pack and physically move her belongings. Their answer was no we have no services. “She needs to rely on The generosity of friends, family, and neighbors.”

[Downtroddenred]

Originally Posted by divine1966

Most people I heard of in the situation of needing low income housing in a hurry, they were prioritized if they were in a shelter rather than have any other type of dwellings. But I get it is different in a rural area. I misread that you are in NYC.

You aren’t a coward. It’s stressful. Checking up on her is a good plan. No harm in that. Be safe though in case she gets out of control. Perhaps phone call is safer than knocking on the door

I don’t think that she’ll get out of control. I’m not sure she’ll answer the door. When she she was served a formal letter ending her tenancy , she told the process server that we are “f***ing a**holes.” And he agreed! We only know this because we have cameras. 🙄

[ArmorPlate108]

Oh gosh, downtroddenred, that isn't a good situation.

I don't think you've ruined your karma. The way she's acting, her karma won't be too good

You obviously care a great deal. You have already done so much insofar as support and even research on her behalf. A bad person wouldn't have done any of what you have. You've gone above and beyond.

The process server was probably just being agreeable to get on with his day.

I don't know if you're asking for advice, but honestly, if it were me, I'd probably take a big step back, disconnect from her, and let her start figuring it out on her own. You are giving her a lot of time to move, and it sounds like you might offer a little more time if she seems like she's making headway. If she knows you're emotionally engaged, she might play on that. Maybe make yourself available for concerns as a landlord, but give her lots of space? Once she thinks you're disengaged emotionally, she may just give up and get on with it.

Many hugs coming your way.

[Molinit]

I agree with everything ArmorPlate108 says!

[Molinit]

Originally Posted by Downtroddenred

I don’t think that she’ll get out of control. I’m not sure she’ll answer the door. When she she was served a formal letter ending her tenancy , she told the process server that we are “f***ing a**holes.” And he agreed! We only know this because we have cameras. 🙄

Please do not take the process server's response as how he really feels. They are walking into a very highly charged situation. My brother was a process server and he told me he agreed with EVERYTHING the people said and appeared very empathetic only so he could serve the papers and get out of there without injury.

They are forced to agree with the people - in reality they know that it doesn't come to eviction unless something is wrong about the tenant - either late or non-payment of rent, hoarding, safety issue, etc.

[Downtroddenred]

Originally Posted by Molinit

Please do not take the process server's response as how he really feels. They are walking into a very highly charged situation. My brother was a process server and he told me he agreed with EVERYTHING the people said and appeared very empathetic only so he could serve the papers and get out of there without injury.

They are forced to agree with the people - in reality they know that it doesn't come to eviction unless something is wrong about the tenant - either late or non-payment of rent, hoarding, safety issue, etc.

Thanks. I know it. And I know it’s not true, as we have gone above and beyond for her over the last 20 years. Sometimes it just hurts to hear it though especially when you’re trying so hard to do the right thing.

[Downtroddenred]

Originally Posted by ArmorPlate108

Oh gosh, downtroddenred, that isn't a good situation.

I don't think you've ruined your karma. The way she's acting, her karma won't be too good

You obviously care a great deal. You have already done so much insofar as support and even research on her behalf. A bad person wouldn't have done any of what you have. You've gone above and beyond.

The process server was probably just being agreeable to get on with his day.

I don't know if you're asking for advice, but honestly, if it were me, I'd probably take a big step back, disconnect from her, and let her start figuring it out on her own. You are giving her a lot of time to move, and it sounds like you might offer a little more time if she seems like she's making headway. If she knows you're emotionally engaged, she might play on that. Maybe make yourself available for concerns as a landlord, but give her lots of space? Once she thinks you're disengaged emotionally, she may just give up and get on with it.

Many hugs coming your way.

Thank you, you are very wise! I realize I do need to step back. The idea dawned on me much more slowly than others. I am definitely learning a lot of hard lessons at the ripe old age of 47.

[Downtroddenred]

For anyone following this- 😑
Husband and I Decided to go for lunch at our local diner. It has two dining rooms. We are eating when all of a sudden the host comes in with elderly tenant. We both make eye contact. She abruptly turns around, and announces loudly to the hostess (who’s bewildered) she would like to sit on the other side “where there are decent people”. The other tables sitting in the dining room just looked at her like she was crazy. I wonder if decent people would clean off her car in and dig it out of the 6 inches of snow we got last night? Or the projected foot that we are getting Tuesday?
She has NOT found a place- 😡