Things T's shouldn't say.....

Ha, I don't recall that series but it sounds - intriguing, in a weird way

Spaghetti with tomato sauce, LOL It does kind of look like bloody intestines!

I object. I am the queen of intellectualizing. you can spend a LOT of time - pardon, WASTE a lot of time and spend a lot of money, intellectualizing. It's not 'having fun', it's more aptly termed mental masturbation (yeah, i did NOT like it when people told me that's what I was doing!). I know, it's like us old hippies telling the kids now, well I smoked pot, but YOU shouldn't! Why should you listen to me on this? Athena liked my recommendation of Jeffrey Seinfeld's books about the Negative Therapeutic Reaction - last I looked, they were still available cheap. I also read a book that my T contributed a chapter to, and I was like - OMG, do we ALL come in here and say the same thing? His chapter, written as a young therapist, was along the same lines - OMG, do they ALL come in here and say the same thing (ie hit on me)? But he kinda played dumb when I pointed that out. I may have to reread it and bring it up again. No denying you are one smart kitten - but use your power for good, not evil! Seriously, you sensed the connection between the 2 t's, then you found an ACTUAL connection - that is scary smart. Don't derail yourself - that is/was my biggest bugaboo. Also see Anne Katherine's book on Self-Sabotage, THE best.

Hi Hankster, I getcha. I really do. I just got distracted by a memory with a therapist who was a power freak. True, not all therapists who object to intellectualizing are doing it out of insecurity.

Some of us clients probably do intellectualize as a way of escaping the issue at hand. I know I've done it myself. I guess I'm just asking for more compassion from the therapist when they notice what I'm doing.

For instance, why does the therapist have to go on the attack when they notice this? It's so clumsy, and it's alienating. If you're a therapist and you notice that your client is doing something counterproductive or harmful, why not just make a silent note and continue to observe?

Does the therapist have to verbalize all of their insights and critiques as they occur? I'm all for transparency (and I appreciate it when a therapist does it well), but a pattern of yelling at the client when they mess up is going to be alienating.

I mean I think there are other ways of gently nudging and prodding a frightened and defensive client toward releasing their grip on an unhelpful strategy. Why not work with them over a few sessions about this problem? The therapist shouldn't just yell, "Stop intellectualizing!"

So when I intellectualize, it's usually because I'm in pain and I'm not quite ready to delve deep at the moment. I don't always want to have an open-vein session - sometimes I just want to look at my life kind of from above. You need a break sometimes, you know? I agree that if intellectualizing becomes a pattern in therapy, though, it's totally counterproductive!

Ooh, thanks so much, Hankster, for these book recommendations, I will look those up! (Ha, for a sec I thought it was Jerry Seinfeld who wrote Negative Therapeutic Reaction)

Hey, there's nothing wrong with old hippies I always wished my parents had been hippies. They were so uptight...(sigh)

well then just one more thing - my T's - apparently ALL of them - never took me seriously because I say things funny? so maybe they're "yelling" to get your attention and not speaking "gently" because we don't come off as soft-spoken? YOU see yourself as kitten, but I saw the claws? funny claws. At least they're interrupting you, mine just let me yack on and on and on - or maybe I REALLY don't listen - that COULD be it...!

That's a good insight Hankster.

Hm.

I get this entitled feeling in therapy sometimes, where I just feel like I can say and do whatever I want. Which is totally the opposite of how I am, like, at work. I'm self-effacing at work, once of those icky meek people you can't stand because they get all blushy and stammery when you're just trying to make chitchat. I've worked on my shyness and social issues, and I'm getting better, but it's tough. I'm a kitten in civilian life, but pretty uninhibited when I hit the couch!

So maybe I'm actually doing it wrong. I guess I go overboard. It's possible that the heady surprising weirdness of actually being asked by someone to express my deep feelings turns me into a whirling dervish. Maybe the other guy thought he was just rising to the occasion with me. I'm high energy, so he does the same thing. Or maybe it's like what you said, I'm the one who's yelling, and he's basically telling me to shut up Maybe his shtick was all strategic, a therapeutic technique he was using on me, and he wasn't actually mad that I was intellectualizing...

So I'm hijacking the thread again, but you said something interesting, Hankster - that your therapists have never taken you seriously? Because you're funny? And they just let you keep talking? More on this

was that a question? yeah, I was talking and laughing but not FEEEEELING. I think they thought I had "resolved" an issue because I could tell a funny story, but I felt I was laughing to keep from crying and was looking for comments from them, which never came, which I was used to - I never got any understanding from my family, either. So what you're saying about what you think your T is doing - my advice would be to ask him directly (well, when you find one!) if this is a ploy or whatever. I was so accustomed to being talked AT or ABOUT, never TO. It's a very hard lesson to learn. I spent over 20 years yelling AT my T's, monologueing actually, where I let them say ONE SENTENCE at the end of the hour. Whose fault is that? I read somewhere that towards the end of therapy, an outside observer can't tell who is T and who is P by the amount of talking or even what is being said, it's like a conversation between equals, a real relationship, sometimes the first real adult r/s the P has ever had. another really great book, but expensive, is The Misuse of Persons by Stanley Coen. Really explains what therapy is about, at least for me. I also liked Peter Giovacchini - REALLY spoke to me, really helped me learn to speak to my current T. I would sticky passages to read in session and say to T, THIS is what you're doing wrong! Then I'd smile sweetly

WOW.

Hankster, you're a lot like me. I'm funny, so people think I'm not in pain. Of course here on the forum we know that humor only even evolved because of pain. In heaven, there is no humor. You don't need it!

Loving this astonishing thing you mention here:

...Towards the end of therapy, an outside observer can't tell who is T and who is P by the amount of talking or even what is being said, it's like a conversation between equals, a real relationship, sometimes the first real adult r/s the P has ever had.

That would really be amazing! Something to look forward to, if I can ever find a T to work with who doesn't just pile more stuff onto my pre-existing damage.

I'm writing down all the books you mention. What a great idea - just mark the place in the book where you want them to read about what they're doing wrong! LOL

Did your T read those passages?

Wanted to continue the discussion started by mommyof2girls: What things should a therapist NOT say in session? This is so fun, I thought of some more:

"I don't care about words."

"I don't like weird little projects."

"You think of me as a mountain."

Thanks for starting this

yeah, I recognized your type of humor! and yes he did read them. I should start a thread about it. poor guy has a stack like 4 foot high on his radiator shelf of my crap, I should start bringing stuff back home, quit hoarding at HIS place!

I hate it when my T says "Well I see our time is about up" and as usual he started ten minutes late. This happens all the time - thought I was paying for a 50 minute session, not a 35 or 40 minute session!

Hankster,

Can you share the name of the book you are referring to - the one with the chapter that says OMG do they all come in and say the same thing?

Thanks.

you mean will I just give you the name of my therapist? nah - you gotta at least buy me dinner first... sorry, am I being paranoid? that may have just been my "take" on the article. and his chapter was unique in the book as to that topic.

Aren't there enough fakes in the world already?

As an intellectual, I find this phrase triggering and offensive. I'm getting tense and aggressive here.

In a word, YES. It's no good telling you later. You'd say, "What? When? I don't remember that!".

I can hear you were triggered, as I was, but after several weeks of hard thought, I've decided that T cannot know what triggers me unless I tell her. I guess that was the big lesson of the week.

Next time. I intend to say, "I find that phrase triggering. I get angry and I stop listening. I know you're trying to help me, but you'll have to find another way to tell me that."

I should keep that on my clipboard for use on Hankster.

Sorry! I'll try to be nice! (I'll put that on MY clipboard!)

"I've never heard of a case like yours."

Instead, T could say something like:

"No two cases are exactly alike, and yours does have some unusual features. But the basic issues of love and shame and fear and anger apply to everyone. I can help you."

Towanda, how he's behaving is total crap. I think you should call him on this - it's unethical to deprive you of the full session. My old T used to say it was a betrayal of the frame. But however you want to say it, it shouldn't be happening!

There's a thanks and a hug button, wish there was a crackup button!

How massively insensitive.

Your rewrite is perfect.

How come WE know this stuff, but THEY don't know this stuff?

"You're being manipulative." Particularly to someone with BPD. I wish that my old T had bothered to look up about BPD to see that it might *seem* that we're trying to be manipulative, but how we are acting is a natural outgrowth of what's going on inside of us. Rather than saying that I was being manipulative, why not say, "I feel that you're trying hard to get what you want by doing X. Let's examine why you want X so much and also what might be a way to get your needs met either by me or by the mother inside of you."

I will NEVER abandon you !!!!!

Oh - sorry! I only realized now that it would give me the name of your T - No, I just love to read good books about therapy, so was looking for another recommendation.

Sorry I got so paranoid. this was not exactly a best seller, just one of those, a bunch of phd's contribute a paper on some vague topic and their students and nanas all buy a copy... and later their stalker clients... again, sorry I was harsh. I feel it's okay for me to be the fool on here, but he shouldn't have to pay!

OK, how about "This was meant to be," referring to our relationship? Talk about grist for the obsessive mill when I'm smack in the middle of my erotic transference.