Trying to get out

Maybe it is ok to think of T1 during sex if that's what feels good. If that's what you're feeling right now, maybe go with it rather than feeling badly about it.

(((Ramona))) I think the real job for you right now is grieving. It's tough to do that and pretend all is good. Is there a way to tell your husband you are going through something right now and need a bit of space? That you really miss that aspect of your marriage, too, but you're feeling a bit overwhelmed with some things from your past that have been triggered? Something like that? Pushing yourself to be intimate when it's the last thing in the world you want right now is horrible for both of you.

I don't think I can be that vague with him--"some things from my past have been triggered." He'll want to know what.

I am going to have to drink SO much tonight.

There are times where I think of my fantasies during sex. In fact there is a huge world of role playing and such.

I think if you are going to go there, fantasize about T1, maybe let the fantasy expand not just about T1 but really go with the fantasy, forget that the person you are fantasizing about is Eric because really it is some random fictional person that has X characteristics. Give this fantasy person a new name and let him become your wishes... you might start to get an understanding about what turns you on, what it is about Eric that turns you on - is it physical or emotional... is it because you feel with Eric you can say anything, you can be vulnerable and still be accepted? Did being able to talk explicitly about sex turn you on (the whole "talk dirty to me")?

Again, use this time to explore what it is about you that you want, what is it about the relationship you had with Eric, what is it about Eric the physical body/person of Eric that connected to you. If you let yourself build this person from scratch... what would he look like, how would he act, what would he feel like?

Thanks so much to everyone trying to help. I'm in such a bad place today.

I like what Frack and Elio said above. You know that if somehow you actually did start an affair with T1, it would not have been as perfect as the fantasy seems. You almost certainly would have discovered things about him that ruined the fantasy or found out it wasn't actually as exciting or satisfying as you imagined it being.
But I don't think it's wrong to just have the thought/fantasy. For many people, fantasy does help with having a satisfying sex life. We all have fantasies. We all have thoughts that we don't REALLY want to act on.

I really wish I could be clued in on the stuff about him that would ruin the fantasy. I REALLY do. I am so overwhelmed with a wave of sadness right now. My husband asked me what's wrong and said: "Just TELL me" and I couldn't.

I said we should go to marriage counseling because we're not communicating well. He thinks it's a waste of time and money and we should just focus on getting ME a good therapist.

I said we're not communicating well. He is SO blind.

Today was rough. I thought about Eric a lot.

I was thinking about the message above asking whether he'd take me back if I asked him to and realizing that he probably wouldn't. It hurts so much.

I just keep going over and over again in my head: WHY? Just,...WHY? Why did he say those things?

"I would never lie to you. I would never be careless with your heart. I will hold it tenderly in my hands."

Why did he say it? I don't understand.

Is he really a remorseless psychopath or just a clueless "guy" who said something he felt in the moment and really didn't mean?

He kept saying that he cared about me and that he wanted me and that he would be with me if he could: "I DO want to, I just can't," he said.

I miss him. I wish I could talk to him and ask him why--without him being defensive and afraid. I just wish I could ask him what happened? Did he really feel anything for me at all? Ever? Why did he change? Was it something I did? Does he ever think of me? Could I be with him years down the road some day?

I would respect him so much more if he just told me the truth.

There was no anger in me today. Just sadness and confusion.

I'm not telling my husband. Not for a very long time. I wouldn't have the first clue what to say. I don't even know what happened myself. I don't even KNOW. I feel so lost.

I want to call him and ask him to please just explain to me what happened. It hurts so much to think of never seeing him again. I thought about him all day.

Third choice - bad therapy. You didnt understand him, and he didnt understand you.

I went through a similar phase. A little different because it was a few months after I stopped going and I was at a point where I actually felt a bit more resilient regarding him - I could feel attracted and long for him but I did not feel devastated that it couldn't be. Anyway, I called and asked if he would now be willing to meet for a few sessions to talk about stuff like this - sort of dissect it. He said he thought it would be better to address this in long term therapy with my new therapist. It certainly hurt to feel that he wanted to keep me at a distance. In any case, that is what I did. I took in all my own notes about therapy that I had kept, I got his office to forward all my records to my new therapist and we are going over it all together slowly. I feel better and better. And I can accept that like any other relationship, there may never be a sense of closure completely. All I can try to do is understand as best as I can with the information I have, and I made it a point to get all the information I could. I can't say enough how brilliant my new therapist has been in guiding me through this.

I too, would have loved if he would have just talked with me honestly and answered questions like the ones you asked. But he is an autonomous person, and he chose not to. I can only help myself without him. It's really weird.....a few months ago I never imagined that I had it in me to do that. Yeah, it's not "perfect" but its good enough, and finally, that seems to be good enough for my heart/mind/soul too.

PrevT and I asked for a mediator for a session like this after the cases were over but his lawyer said AbusivePDoc didn't feel it was in my best interest.....like he EVER cared about my best interest.

Twenty years out and, Frack, you remind me of a new question- I never asked PrevT whether AbusivePDoc sent her my records? I remember we asked for them.

I still ask myself similar questions like why?? Why me?? Did you really ever love me??? Or was it all a scam For your perverted fantasies??? Do you ever think of me?? And how do you feel about everything now??

Thing is I will never get any answers.. And I just have to be okay with that.. As okay as I can be and still function

Me too! Twenty some years out I still wish I knew "why." I was the second of seven who came forward. I still wonder what set him off, what caused him to decide to start this behavior. He knew it was a felony after we were intimate because I told him I looked it up and found out it was. He still had at least one other victim one year later after our intimacies ended. So he knew and still chose to do it.

I don't know why. Why me? What did I do to attract him? I'll never know. He could have chosen a colleague, a waitress, someone he met in a bar if he wanted an affair. But he chose patients! Why?

Ramona,

It makes it worse, imo, that your x-t chose or chooses to flirt and sexualize the therapy relationship. It's worse that he chooses vulnerable clients. (You are very smart, but you became vulnerable in that relationship where he knew everything about you, your fears, your problems, your dreams, your desires....and you knew little about him.)

It's worse when therapists do this with clients because they are likely seeing clients in their worst vulnerable moments when they are traumatized, hurting, confused and their heads are not clear. Grooming can happen so subtly that clients most times can't even see it coming.

If your T wanted an emotional affair, he could have went online, he could have picked anyone else in his day to day life. But he zeroed in on you. And God knows who else.
I feel angry for you!

OK bear with me through this, because I am still so confused. The "grooming" that happened--T3 mentioned that too--that he groomed me. But isn't that just when someone is trying to groom you for a sexual relationship? When it got to that point and I was BEYOND willing to have a physical relationship with him, he was like "I can't do that, we can't do that, that'll never happen." That's a huge part of what's so confusing to me. If he was some perv who just wanted to have sex with his patient, then he could have had it, but he's the one who said "No" in that case.

And on top of it, he had NO fear of me telling other people about it--in fact he ENCOURAGED me to tell other people--T2, friends, even my husband! How could he be a predator if he seriously didn't know he was doing anything wrong?

Was he just "Grooming" me for an emotional affair? Is that a thing?

Seeing T2 on Wednesday. Haven't emailed him since his last email. I've been taking some time to think.

Maybe he was grooming you for physical exploitation but changed his mind?

But, yes, you can be groomed to be exploited emotionally.

I had a Pdoc before the one who sexually exploited me and he would do things like Eric. He totally sexualized the relationship with several of his patients- even while we were inpatient. In a woman's inpatient group he was discussing "fantasy." He said, I've F--- you and you and you all in my fantasies. He was trying to tell us fantasies were normal and not harmful. He also used the word F--- often, telling us it's just a word...a very expressive word and there was no harm in it.

What would happen is that he would lead groups, get all of the patients worked up...then leave. Patients would be having sex with other...it was a mess. He didn't physically touch any of us that I know about. But he loved flaunting authority and "rules" and he LOVED that he had us all worked up..He NEEDED us to like/love/adore him.

So, my opinion is a therapist having an emotional affair can truly be a "thing."
He was getting his needs met that way.

I asked a professional in the field (not using names or where I got the information)...

A question from an acquaintance.
This woman wants to know if it's possible to be "groomed" for an emotional affair- since no physical intimacies took place:
---
She replied,

"Could be...if it was for his gratification.."

Hope it helps, Ramona.

This is really good. Thanks for posting! To some degree, this is how I approach my insanely raw physical desire for my T. It's taught me so much about what turns me on.
It's kind of empowering!

I think that as you have more time and distance, you will start to see things in a different way. It's amazing how our feelings can affect how we perceive reality. I think it happens to all of us to some degree.

Do you remember how you felt about your husband when you first met him? Do you remember a time when you did feel more excited and passionate about your husband than you do now? I am curious about if the spark was there and now it's gone, because I think that is a really common problem that a lot of us who have been married for a while have to find ways to deal with.

I do remember that raw physical attraction to my husband--wanting to be with him all the time, wanting sex every time we were together. It blows my mind that we've been together 15 years.

We had sex Sunday night and it was good--as good as it was when I was in the throes of it with T1, but that probably was because I drank an ENTIRE bottle of wine first and convinced myself that I was, indeed, having sex with T1. Not ideal, but it did get me through it.

Sunday day was really tough--the longing for him. There still hasn't been a single day that I haven't tried to justify calling him and asking him to take me back. The one thing that really truly stops me is the fear that he'll say "No" and that that will end me. On the other hand, it might actually set off this anger that I can't seem to find ANYWHERE. No anger. Just longing.

I was honest to God shopping for guns to blow my brains out over this man--whether it was his malicious manipulation or gross incompetence--either way I was going to blow my brains out, and I have the SWEETEST baby on Earth.

And he took SO much money. And he lied to my face--I'm sure he lied many times, but I'm thinking of the day he told me not to email him anymore because it wasn't good for ME and that if I needed more contact with him to make more appointments. That was the day I truly saw him look straight in my eyes and LIE to me and attempt to manipulate me for his own protection and gain.

I should be so angry with him. I can't find the feeling anywhere.

Maybe he got off on the fact that he made you want him so badly... Like teasing you.. Flaunting this stuff but then slapping your hand away saying no!! That will never be!!

As I've posted, the issue that started my anger was knowing the Pdoc in my case was arrested for doing something similar with an 18-19 yo client a year after he was intimate with me. He knew it was a felony (in that state) but did it anyway. It proved to me I was not special. It wasn't a mistake, etc.

Do you think you would feel angry learning he acted the same way with his other female clients?

Have you looked up his professional license to see if he has 1) had any other complaints 2) has been sanctioned by his professional board?

I relate to not finding the anger. Still haven't really found it, only anger at the whole situation and sort of just at life.

Even when I called her back and she told me no, couldn't find the anger. But I will say it messed with me a lot no matter how it was intended, after that woman had practically begged me, if I left, to come back to therapy someday just a few months ago. At this point it's probably best to move on.

The being shot down from someone who desired me and pulled me in consistently before that, it hurt a lot even if I understood how things changed and that now she was freaking out and wanted it to disappear. It changed my feelings a lot and I developed fulI-blown OCD just trying to figure out some kind of closure. In hindsight I wish I could have just moved on without that part, back when I still idealized the relationship.

I looked up his license. No complaints or sanctions of any kind.

I would definitely feel angry if I knew he did it with someone else. That would help a LOT.

Man, I really felt like I was doing pretty well this morning and then it hit me HARD. So much sadness.

That's what I was thinking. Like a power trip for him, someone attractive wanting him so badly and him turning them away.