Trying to get out

I think your thoughts are normal given the situation -- of COURSE you are curious!

Hang in there, Ramona. You're doing great!

Feeling better today than I have for a few days. It's absolutely mindblowing when I'm able to have a "normal" day. I had completely forgotten what it was like and thought it was gone from my life forever. I don't mean a great happy perfect day--I woke up grumpy and irritable, spent two hours cleaning the house and getting the baby ready to go out, and then came here to my workspace to work some more, and then teaching a class later.

But....I'M NOT CHOKING AND THERE'S NO VIOLENT SQUEEZING PRESSURE IN MY CHEST.

T1 was making me sick. It's so ****ing hard for me to accept it, but he was and has been a HUGE part of what has been keeping me drowning in depression and anxiety. It is so terrifying to realize it. Dude was like a ****ing vampire.

It really CLICKED for me with a post someone made on Lucozader's thread "This is torture" where someone posted that "Tales of a Boundary Ninja" blog post. It cleared things up for me a little--that this really has been such intense transference--my body has felt like I'm still trapped in my childhood with my terrifying, emotionally dysregulated, alcoholic, completely inconsistent father who has combat PTSD and a traumatic brain injury from combat.

I really think this thing with T1 might have brought me back there. It is so ****ing terrified. I wouldn't say my depression and anxiety are GONE, but when I walk across the street now, I don't think about jumping in front of cars. When I walk across a bridge, I don't think about jumping off. At least for the last couple days anyway.

Went to marriage counselor with husband tonight. We both thought he seemed pretty good and think we'll go back to him.

It was just supposed to be an hour session but we went an hour and a half. He seemed cool and I like that my husband felt comfortable with him.

Every time I tell the story about what happened it's still so hard for me to believe it. It's a really weird ****ed up story.

I am glad you found a good MC! Hugs!

Good for you, fantastic that you got this far. That shows that you do have a lot of strength and courage. It's so awkward isn't it, what strong transference and related feelings of attachment can do with you. When you are completely absorbed by such a situation it is very difficult to believe you may one day feel more alive and less fatalistic again - or even that you will get out of this alive.
As I wrote: only a complete stop in contact helped for me. However, whenever I face a connection with strong transference (yes I had it a few times and only with often older men in an authoritarian position that abuse the power imbalance - as that reminds me of the relationship with my father) I still tend to think that this time I can turn around the table, that this time this person will show true empathy and care, will see and appreciate me for what I am, etcetera. It's like I have the mindset of a stubborn mule, and for me personally only staying far away from persons/situations that can trigger such strong transference helps. (Unfortunately however, my healthcare situation often doesn't allow me to do so, but that's a different story).

I would indeed as you suggested yourself definitely not let T1 join T2 (or any other T) in a session. You may very well take a lot of steps back in this process of trying to feel better again, if you do see him again.

What I recognized very much in your writing, Ramona, on another note, is the dynamic of attracting vs pushing away. That is imho so inherent to these situations in which T's (or any other authoritarian figure) abusing the power imbalance and crossing boundaries 'operate'. First they will attract you and show that they feel attracted to you, get closer to you, meanwhile fullfilling their own desires (or whatever it is they want to fulfill). Then when you experience even stronger transference and have become truly attached, they start to pull back. Of course since their ego has gotten the desired boost, since they got the confirmation they were looking for, and now fear starts to set in about their professional life that is at stake. So they pull back, and that causes deep grief, anxiety, depression with the patient/client (that often already faced some attachment/abandonment/trust issues in the first place). That, in return, causes the professional to pull back even harder since now he really starts to fear his professional position. And the patient/client hurts even more and gets more anxious. It can only go downhill very fast from there of course, with desastrous consequences for the patient/client.

Meh, this is really accurate. It sucks to be a client with personal feelings towards an unhealthy therapist. We end up bearing 200% of the relationship's wounds. We have to learn the hard way and ultimately have to feel at the cellular level why things shouldn't be this way.

We both felt good about the MC last night and I woke up this morning feeling like absolute hell again. My husband pointed out I actually seem more depressed and anxious on the days after I go to therapy and I think that he's right. Maybe I should stop going all together?

I know one of the things that really brings me down is that I was studying to be a therapist myself many years ago, then stopped to become a writer, and now I have a super meaningless, totally unfulfilling job and I go to therapists and feel ****** because it reminds me of yet another failure I've wracked up in my life--these people are really doing something and helping people and I do NOTHING. I feel low as ****.

@Ramona but clearly not all of them are helping people right? It's not the job, it's what you do with it. Saying this with positive vibes and I hope it comes off that way.

Ditto. I come and read this thread often to keep updated as to how you are doing. You are doing an amazing job staying dedicated to your decisions. You are showing great resolve in the face of significant emotional pain.

I just feel SO incredibly low this morning--like the lowest in at least a week. Just AWFUL. Feeling like a big nothing. Stay at home motherhood feels like prison to me, but daycare is both scarce and super expensive where we live. I am getting hit this morning with the most INTENSE feelings that I am ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. This is how I felt when I was going to T1--that I was a big nothing--a failed writer, no career, a miserable place to live, like the world wouldn't bat an eyelash if I just disappeared. And I am TERRIFIED of the holiday weekend. Day after day of NOTHING to do but "relax." AND it's my birthday on Sunday. I can't be in my house any more. I am so desperately miserable.

Maybe this marriage counseling thing was a bad idea? I feel absolutely AWFUL--like I have NO FUTURE. I just want to cry and cry and cry over all the missed opportunities and failures and exploitations and failure failure failure failure. The voice was back this morning: YOU ARE NOW AND ALWAYS WILL BE NOTHING.

I do NOT want to be at home with my family. It is unbearable. I am so filled with dread over this weekend.

Also, it's been four months today since I left T1. I never thought I'd make it this far. Yesterday I was feeling good about it. Today I'm wrecked.

I recognize this so so much. The doctor that was in a relationship with me while I was his patient could not see at all why I went down completely, drowned, became suicidal - constantly telling me I caused all this myself. Next to all the feelings of pain, humiliation, being worthless and severe anxiety and depression in that romantic relationship I felt exactly as you felt: low and a failure in my professional life, certainly when dealing with him or any other doctor. Funny detail is that after he left me broken and suicidal, he let his lover sent me a note that I was just jealous that he was so intelligent while I could only wish to have a tiny bit of the intelligence he had (the note was clearly written by himself). That hit me hard! Either way, I don't have a real answer to this unfortunately. I know there are online university courses, because of my depression I gave up on them but perhaps you can look into something like that? Not since you would have to accomplish more obviously, but since it may give you some more confidence in yourself, and the feeling you are learning new things? But perhaps you lack time to do something like that. I found that doing things I really love to do next to work and trying to develop myself somewhat in that direction did seem to help (somewhat).

Perhaps seek a passion in/around home if you have to stay at home: that could be anything from cooking, making something, selling things online, offering a service that could help others in the area. Anything that you are really passionate about and try to turn it into a small business out of home? Learn about branding, blogging, setting up a website. Having something for yourself that you can cherish and that (in its branding as well as content) really expresses who you are and what you like, may give you the feeling you have something, and that you are communicating that to and offering to the outside world.

And again, that is a massive accomplishment! You will have a lot of difficult days still, likely, but overall it's only forwards and reaching a better place from here.

"We both felt good about the MC last night and I woke up this morning feeling like absolute hell again. My husband pointed out I actually seem more depressed and anxious on the days after I go to therapy and I think that he's right. Maybe I should stop going all together?"

Idk, but I usually feel more anxious and worked up after therapy. I replay the session and think of new questions or remember things I meant I meant to tell T.

"I know one of the things that really brings me down is that I was studying to be a therapist myself many years ago, then stopped to become a writer, and now I have a super meaningless, totally unfulfilling job and I go to therapists and feel ****** because it reminds me of yet another failure I've wracked up in my life--these people are really doing something and helping people and I do NOTHING. I feel low as ****."

This isnt what you mean, I know, but your posting here helps me.

Have you considered writing an article or book about your therapy experiences? You have a head start since you have all your postings here to help you keep track of everything you are going through.

PrevT and Gary Schoener, PhD. both have mentioned they don't know many academics writing about therapist/exploitation as much anymore. I asked T if any of her grad students or PhD, PsyD students are writing about it (for thesis, etc.). She said, no, they have other interests.

The thought may be overwhelming right now.

I like the idea of that very much.

If I look at myself however, (but I couldn't talk for Ramona obviously) I would never be able to do that without retraumatizing myself again (and it has been a few years since that relationship). I can't even think over going through all the emails and all that again - it was the reason I couldn't file a board complaint. I was unable to sleep at night without waking up in agony and anxiety, screaming (still have that, but alas). But my situation was different from Ramona's of course, involving threats, so perhaps for her indeed it could be a road to take that could give her a new sense of worth and reason. As said: in itself I like the idea very much.

All I can say is, I feel your pain. You're strong getting through four months of no contact. You're not begging him or being pathetic. You're taking care of you. That must stand for something. Time will hopefully heal all wounds. I wish I could say the same for myself.

I am 100% planning to write about this experience some day when I get through the reporting and legal parts of the experience that are going on right now. I'd love to write a book about it.

I turn all of my most painful experience into articles and I've gotten published on some pretty big outlets. I'm definitely planning to write this one.

Same here--I've heard it called a "therapy hangover." I'd keep going for a bit, especially since you and H liked the MC.

It is honestly so crazy to realize I've made it four months. I didn't think I'd last a week. It seems like much longer when I look back at that all I've been through, but I honestly didn't think I'd make it this long. And I never ever EVER thought I'd tell my husband.

MC agrees that while it sounds like T2 has been very helpful and an advocate for me getting away from T1, the fact that he still sees T1 monthly for training just makes him too close to him. I'm going to try to move on to T3 by the end of the month. It will be difficult. And now I'm back to paying for 2 therapists again--an MC as well as T3. God I wish I could do something else with my money besides therapy.

Hi Ramona,

I meant to post earlier when you said that you felt people here did not care about the progress of your situation anymore, but then I got caught up in a lot of urgent duties. I wanted to say that I am following this thread even if I don't post and am still very interested in the developments. You are very brave and disciplined putting all this on here - something I am not sure I would have the willingness to do. I also think that you are doing amazingly well, sitting with your pain, expressing it here, and making clear steps to move on with the whole situation. I like that you are exploring T3 in spite of the distance and financial issues, and are trying MC as well. I think in general, MC is supposed to be focused and shorter term, and if you and your husband follow that structure, the extra financial burden may not last very long.

Perhaps when you see T3, let her know from start that your goal is to eventually move on from therapy and have that money available for other areas of interest. Maybe set specific aims with her and work towards them, if possible. You might still find that things go all over the map and you need more time, but simply stating and reinstating your personal goals might not be a bad thing.

I don't go to regular therapy sessions now but when I do, I also often experience that "hangover" thing. My typical reaction is to write down my thoughts and send in an email to the T a few hours post-session. One of my Ts encouraged this, the other is sometimes against it but eventually accepted that it helps me and I do it for processing, not much for response.

Best of luck in the new endeavors!

Thanks for writing this. I really like your idea of telling T3 that I ultimately want to move on from therapy altogether and not make it the focus of my life or my finances. It's a good idea.

I've had a really weird week--getting attacked every other day from different and totally unexpected sources. I really feel under the gun right now--like I'm walking around with a sign that says: "It's OK to **** on me." My sister just attacked me when I expressed frustration with our parents and stated that she's "sick of her life revolving around me for the last 40 years." I'm 40, so basically she's said she's been pissed at me since I was born. My family of origin is so awful, it really points to how I fell into this exploitation in the first place--so desperate to be cared for by someone older and wiser and more mature and in control.