This is Torture

I wish I could have done that.
Therapy dragging on like this has not done me well.

Your therapy is very unusual as I recall since you see your therapist 4 times a week. That's a lot. I don't know anybody who does that anymore and the vast majority of clients don't see their therapist that often. I know people on this forum are constantly saying that the solution to everything is more therapy and that you have to work through these feelings but I disagree. I agree with ramona: seeing your therapist more often will probably increase your transference, not decrease it. Your life then becomes all about therapy. You have no incentive to build real life relationships/a support system/hobbies because all you care about is therapy. It was certainly that way for me with my ex T and I only saw her once a week. I breathed therapy, I ate therapy, I drank therapy. Everything was about therapy and it didn't help me one bit: I remained stuck in my head instead of living my life. Super unhealthy and nothing got resolved. I feel really bad for the OP because even though I never experienced erotic transference for my T, I know how painful attachment can be. But I don't think I was ever going to "work through my feelings" for my ex T: I wanted something from her that she was never going to give me. There was no big secret about myself to uncover: who wouldn't want someone who seems totally focused on you and has no need of their own? But that's not real. Nobody in your real life is going to act like that. Nobody is going to fulfill all your needs. It's impossible. The solution in my case was to stop seeing her (well she terminated me). Six months later and I feel SO MUCH BETTER. I hope the OP can figure something out whether it's to stay and maybe decrease the amount of sessions or to leave and see another therapist (a woman this time perhaps?).

I think what is being discussed in the last few posts here is a good example for how varied and individual our experiences can be (consistent with the topic of another recent thread on this subforum about handling transference). I think it is good to share our respective experiences and feelings, but do not believe that there is any kind of "one size fit all" solution. I can easily agree with those that need long deep work with a T to dig through the mechanics of these feelings, and just as easily can see that in many cases, the best move is really to move on and not get stuck in therapy. I think sometimes therapy indeed brings out old dysfunctional patterns that can benefit from diving into it - other times it creates a parallel universe that has little relevance to our everyday life, and can mostly just distract from it and serve as an escape from our reality. Don't think anyone can know what the truth is for someone else and what sort of approach, intensity etc can be helpful or harmful for another person. But trying different things on our own can be useful, given that if they turn counterproductive, we don't get stuck in it too long. What I do believe though is if someone wants to provide therapy as a professional, it is best to investigate own bothersome, painful patterns at least to arrive to a decent understanding of them (not sure they can always be resolved per se). Just my opinion.

Those are really good points. And you are absolutely right.
I think we can only speak from our own experience. And when that experience has been painful and negative it tends to colour our views on things.
I just wish the best for lucozader.

When you are starving and you are only given tiny bits so that you never get enough then it is logical that regardless of the small amount of food you are given you still remain starved. Once per week therapy is definitely too little to get anywhere reasonably quickly with strong and intense transference.

I'm not trying to convince anyone. Everyone can have their therapy as they see fit. I just thought that because OP is training as a therapist and for her fleeing her feelings are probably not an option, at least not when she seriously wants to become a therapist herself, then having more frequent sessions would most probably get her more quickly to a place where these intense transference feelings start to make some sense and then would also start become more tolerable.

Makes total sense but unfortunately, financially it is not often feasible to be able to go more than once a week for most people

That's true but for people who are training to be a therapist this could (and imho should) be considered as part of the cost of their education.

Totally agree!

That is really taking the piss.

I work thirty hours a week at my job in a shop for slightly more than minimum wage. I work at my placement, for a charity, on one day a week. It's about an hour's bus journey each way, and it costs me around an hour's pay to make that journey. I also attend supervision at that location every other week.

In term time, I travel to university one day a week as well. It is also an hour away, and costs me around two hour's pay to travel there by train. My day off is Monday, when I see my T, and I pay him an extremely cheap rate, which is nevertheless around half a day's pay for me.

I am extremely poor. I struggle to pay my rent. I have very little free time. What free time I do have is spent exhausted - I also have a chronic health condition. This has been my life for a couple of years now.

Please stop telling me what I "should" be doing. Particularly in terms of my training. I do not appreciate that aspect of my life being brought into this discussion. I posted this because I wanted emotional support.

I cannot afford to see my T more than once a week. I do not have time to see my T more than once a week (and neither does he). I also agree with those who say that it would increase my attachment.

Thanks everyone who has offered the support and understanding that I requested. I really appreciate it.

Oh - and my course costs around four grand a year. This is covered thankfully by a loan, which I don't have to pay back until I'm earning more than £21,000 a year. Earning that much money is a distant dream for me. Seriously.

I'm feeling miserable and hopeless tonight. It's all f***ed.

I hate myself. I hate that I'm so broken. I hate that I'm so irrational. I hate that my life is s**t and it's all my fault.

I don't think you're broken at all.

Feilecan, I'm sorry if I come across as an arsehole. I did appreciate your offering your point of view, and a different idea of how I might proceed.

But the assumption that I SHOULD pay twice as much a week for therapy as part of my training was very offensive to me. It is an extremely privileged thing to say. You are very lucky that you can afford therapy four times a week. That is more than most people in the world could possibly ever afford. Please remain aware of that.

I am, Argo

Well, I still like you. You're one of the best.

Sorry. That was a stupid response. I'm in such a state tonight. Argh.

Thank you for saying that.

That's okay. I'll take your crappy feelings and make something nice - ornamental candle sticks, maybe?

Yes, please.

Thank you lovely lovely lovely Argo.

I'm going to go to sleep now and then wake up tomorrow and wish I hadn't posted any of these posts probably.

I won't tell anyone. G'night

Hey Luc- Does T know how painful this is for you? Have you discussed with him whether he has a clear "course of treatment" so to speak for your transference? I'm not saying your T is abusive and unethical as mine was, but having experienced the level of suffering that you're going through, I have very little patience for any therapist not taking a situation like this very seriously and with extreme care and precision.

Also wondering--do you have any contact with him between sessions via email or phone?

So TRULY sorry you're going through this. I wouldn't wish it on anyone.

Sorry! When I said that this should be part of the education cost then I didn't address it particularly to you. I just think it would be a good thing in general if the therapy programs would state something like that the student is required to have their own therapy with the frequency of at least 2xweek for at least 250 hours or whatever. Then it would be known in advance and anyone who wants to participate in the program can consider how they can go along with these requirements. One may argue that this might make training infeasible to people who can't pay for it but considering that the therapist himself is his most important working tool then the personal therapy is in some sense the most important part of the training. There are so many stories even in this forum where people struggle so much because their therapists just aren't skilful enough, meaning that they don't know themselves enough, don't know their emotions enough, don't tolerate their own and their clients emotional states enough, are afraid of their clients intense feelings because they are actually afraid of their own feelings etc etc. These so-called therapists might have never got the licence to practice if they would have been required to work through their own stuff to a sufficient level and failed to do that. Right now they can go and harm people how much they please.

In terms of you, I just thought that it would make things so much easier for you, considering how much you struggle. If you can't afford it then of course there's nothing to do. But perhaps you could still discuss this with your T? Wouldn't he agree that you might need more frequent sessions at this point and perhaps he can offer you a lower fee so you could afford it? Even if he cannot offer you anything, talking about this option doesn't still hurt.

I'm not sure whether he understands how painful this is for me. I find it very difficult to talk about it with him, but I have tried, on various occasions, to explain how serious it is. I don't think I've really got the message across. I'm scared to truly express it...

Last session he asked me what it was like when I left my previous therapist, and I told him that it wasn't a big deal. I'd seen him for a year, and I said I'd take a break over the summer, and that I might well not go back. We discussed ending over a few sessions, I cried a bit after the final one, and that was it.

He asked me, given that it's summer now, if I'd been thinking about leaving him - I guess looking for a pattern in my approach to such relationships. That alone suggested to me that he doesn't understand how attached to him I am. As if I was just casually thinking about leaving him! Finding someone else! Hah.

So I brought up this thread. I said - it's funny you should mention that, because people are telling me I should leave you. He asked why, and I told him it was because I'd talked about how much I was hurting. I think that soaked in - I think it made an impact. I think he heard it.

He asked why I'd posted about how much I was hurting. I think he thought I wanted people to tell me to leave him. I told him I wanted to hear from people who understood how much pain I was in. He seemed to understand.

My impression is that he was interested to hear about the erotic transference at first, almost excited by the idea (from a professional perspective)... but that he's starting to realise what a challenge it is to work with it. Realise that we're not really making any progress. Started to panic a bit.

I really don't know how accurate my impressions of him are though. My perception is so clouded by all my s**t. I'm prone to paranoia. I think perhaps I project a lot onto him. I don't know. It's so hard to tell, sometimes, isn't it, when it's just the two of you? There's no impartial third person in the room to tell me what's actually going on.

I don't generally have contact with him outside of sessions. I did send him a couple of emails when I had to miss sessions with him earlier this year, after he specifically agreed that was okay. I've never discussed whether it's okay for me to email him in general - I'm too scared of the possible rejection. Why do you ask?

I'm glad it's started to sink in for him, because this **** is no joke. I asked about whether you email him because I emailed mine quite frequently between sessions and then would live in agony waiting for a response, which sometimes never came.

I can't tell you what to do, but I think that therapists have to be pretty frigging brilliantly skilled to handle erotic transference in a way that's helpful to the client, and it doesn't sounds like he's doing a brilliant job.

You said it seemed like it was sinking in for him how much pain you were in. I was wondering if he suggested anything to ease your suffering at all between sessions?

As a kid I was entirely indifferent towards my parents. They were a something I had to endure because society said so.

I will never understand needing anyone to this extent and every time I see these threads I am eternally grateful.
To the OP..
As always Luc my thoughts are with you.
My honest impression of your T is that whilst he is doing all the right things to maintain a professional relationship, at the moment. He seems entirely clueless to the depth of your feelings.
Until he is truly aware you won't know if he is capable of helping you through it.
My instinct suggests not, he does not have the experience, and was it his tutors that expressed much negativity towards the process of transference?
( I may have your T confused with someone else's., if So I apologize )
In which case who is going to walk him through it?

What I do know from reading these threads is clients sit on their feelings for months and months until they are losing the plot,then they breakdown on their T and the T panics and starts back peddling.

I would suggest being as forthright as you dare before this begins to escalate...Because from what I have seen here it nearly always does.
If he is out of his depth...you need to know. Then you need to get out, possibly with the help of a third party, if he has a mentor or supervisor, who is at least experienced , although if they don't believe in transference I cannot see how this us ever going to turn out ok.

All the best. Please take care.

P.s I don't know who recommended MORE sessions but...No...No.non.Niet,nix,nien.
Unless it was with a different T, one who is actually has a good tenure under their belt.

By the way if I have got your T mixed up with someone else's just disregard all the bleugh that makes no sense.

I agree with many points in the last two posts by Ramona and Erebos here. That a therapist must be extraordinarily self aware and skilled to really work on a client's ET in a beneficial and relatively safe way, and even then I have hard time seeing what such "working through" in therapy would look like when it is a persistent, very intense state such as yours. There are all these stories here, but I don't recall one where the client described clearly how this process went and what were the clear lessons and benefits doing this in therapy. I usually post that I learned a lot from my experiences in my youth, but none of those were with therapists, they were much more causal and most of the lessons for me came from what a T might call "acting out" with various people, until a point where I did it so many times and in so many formats that there was just nothing much more to be experienced and learned from it anymore. This is why I am interested how people do this in therapy, but I have not really seen a clearly conclusive, complete report of it yet.

Of course it is not hard to see why this is one the the most challenging experiences: trying to dive into one of the most powerful drives (sexual instinct) in a relationship construct that is so uneven an unnatural... just by talking about it. Of course acting on it with a T is even worse, as a few examples on this forum show. I am not even surprised that the Ts are so often clueless and, while many get excited about trying, it often goes wrong and leads to distress and pain and no real solution.

I think my views on all this are changing with seeing so many stories here unfold, from the original perception that this can provide profound and constructive lessons to clients if it is approached in the right way. Because, what would that "right way" look like? Can this ever be truly effective therapy material? I don't know, these are just some of my most recent thoughts about it. I really would love to read a clear story where someone had a successful, constructive experience with intense ET in therapy and how it went.