[TeaVicar?]

Letter is here:
A letter to… my therapist, whom I fell in love with | Life and style | The Guardian

Does this ring true? My initial thoughts were that she was lucky to get out when she did, at the very beginning of the relationship... but perhaps I'm wrong, maybe she could have worked on something with him?

[DP_2017]

I personally don't like this because it implies the feelings ARE fake, and I've spent so much time trying wrestle with it myself and constantly being told feelings are feelings and they are very real.... so that was my issue with the article.

12 weeks.

????? I say as I approach the 7 year mark...

[unaluna]

The LW needs to research a little more and find unconditional positive regard, and Donald Winnicott. This t gave a hungry man a fish, but he did not teach his client how to fish.

From the letter, it does not sound to me like the client has learned nothing from the experience and left in high distress and desperation. Also, I think that the unfolding of falling in love can be very similar in everyday ordinary life, this is not specific to therapy at all. Therapy just gives it a clinical term, sets rules around it, and analyzes it.

Originally Posted by Xynesthesia

From the letter, it does not sound to me like the client has learned nothing from the experience and left in high distress and desperation. Also, I think that the unfolding of falling in love can be very similar in everyday ordinary life, this is not specific to therapy at all. Therapy just gives it a clinical term, sets rules around it, and analyzes it.

Yep that's why I was like "12 weeks"? That's no time at all for any of this..... not trying to judge just an observation...

[Ididitmyway]

This, actually, sounds like a "happy" ending to me meaning that this is as happy as a therapy where intense transference was involved can get.

Her pain seems natural. It doesn't sound like trauma caused by the clumsy handling of transference by a therapist, which is what I hear most from people. This experience sounds like a natural loss of someone you loved intensely and who was important to you..for 12 weeks.

I suspect, this was a success precisely because the therapy didn't last more than 12 weeks. It was focused and goal-oriented and when the objectives were met, it was ended. Seems perfect to me. If she tried to "work through" her transference and stayed longer, she'd end up traumatized and messed up like so many people here on PC who see their therapists for years.

What the **** ever. I'm out.

[TeaVicar?]

Originally Posted by DP_2017

I personally don't like this because it implies the feelings ARE fake, and I've spent so much time trying wrestle with it myself and constantly being told feelings are feelings and they are very real.... so that was my issue with the article.

I think that's what she decided from researching it. Her therapist told her, her feelings were real... but yes, it sort of centres on that.

[TeaVicar?]

Originally Posted by ArtieSwimsOn

12 weeks.

????? I say as I approach the 7 year mark...

That's what I was thinking!!

[TeaVicar?]

Originally Posted by Ididitmyway

This, actually, sounds like a "happy" ending to me meaning that this is as happy as a therapy where intense transference was involved can get.

Her pain seems natural. It doesn't sound like trauma caused by the clumsy handling of transference by a therapist, which is what I hear most from people. This experience sounds like a natural loss of someone you loved intensely and who was important to you..for 12 weeks.

I suspect, this was a success precisely because the therapy didn't last more than 12 weeks. It was focused and goal-oriented and when the objectives were met, it was ended. Seems perfect to me. If she tried to "work through" her transference and stayed longer, she'd end up traumatized and messed up like so many people here on PC who see their therapists for years.

I'm not sure that I agree so much. She is still idealising her T and holding him up on a pedestal... he seems like the perfect T from her letter. She also seems pretty wrapped up in her fantasy.

The therapy might not have been 'goal' orientated, might have been some short term psychodynamic on the NHS.

But yes... perhaps she was better out than in... until she falls in love with the next one

[TeaVicar?]

Originally Posted by unaluna

The LW needs to research a little more and find unconditional positive regard, and Donald Winnicott. This t gave a hungry man a fish, but he did not teach his client how to fish.

She definitely does not need to any more research! *mentally calculates how many articles, books and papers I've read on ET... and the good that it's done me*

Ahh Winnicott

I really think it is hard to accurately assess and interpret this client's experience from the short letter. No background, no context, all too short and superficial. It's interesting to observe what we all project into it though

I never inferred transference wasn't real but have heard others also say this.

Sometimes I think feelings are more 'real' in therapy than anywhere since our defenses are down (for some of us). Defenses cover up 'real' feelings.

[unaluna]

Originally Posted by Xynesthesia

I really think it is hard to accurately assess and interpret this client's experience from the short letter. No background, no context, all too short and superficial. It's interesting to observe what we all project into it though

Well, she "loves" him BECAUSE she feels that she is accepted by him. He could be the worst guy in the world IRL - throws his wet towels on the floor or something else that SHE absolutely could not accept - but she doesnt have that information available to her because of the nature of the t relationship. So her love is literally infantile, isnt it? The way an infant loves a good enough caretaker? Thats MY projection!

Eta - is it "real"? Its one sided, its limited, its immature, its needy, its not reciprocal. So it depends on what you mean by real.

[TeaVicar?]

Originally Posted by unaluna

Well, she "loves" him BECAUSE she feels that she is accepted by him. He could be the worst guy in the world IRL - throws his wet towels on the floor or something else that SHE absolutely could not accept - but she doesnt have that information available to her because of the nature of the t relationship. So her love is literally infantile, isnt it? The way an infant loves a good enough caretaker? Thats MY projection!

Eta - is it "real"? Its one sided, its limited, its immature, its needy, its not reciprocal. So it depends on what you mean by real.

That's like the beginning of most relationships though. We're always blind-sided when it comes to love (and it's usually always about ourselves) - that's why it can be such a disappointment when the rose tinted glasses finally fall off. The therapy set up probably inflates the fantasy though.

[Ididitmyway]

Originally Posted by TeaVicar?

I'm not sure that I agree so much. She is still idealising her T and holding him up on a pedestal... he seems like the perfect T from her letter. She also seems pretty wrapped up in her fantasy.

Don't see anything wrong with idealizing someone you are no longer seeing. Idealization is a problem only if we continue to see the one we idealize because that feeds the desire to be in a different type of relationship with them, which could become tormenting. When we don't see them anymore, we accepted that they will be with us only as a positive mental image of someone who provided us with something essential - unconditional acceptance. I think, this could be very healing to keep such idealized characters in our mind. They could be a source of comfort and strengths at difficult times.

I have such characters in my mind. I have seen them also very briefly, I had no time or opportunity to get to know them as real people nor did I want to. I often recalled their support and guidance when I felt vulnerable. What they did for me was crucial. They gave me the initial sense of my own value I didn't know before. That was something I could build upon in the future, which I sure did. If no one ever pointed out to me that I deserve love and respect just by virtue of my existence as a human being, I'd be still having very little sense of self-worth. So, those people appeared in my life very briefly, at the times when I needed them to appear. They served a certain function for me and, as soon as they served it, they disappeared. I never had the need to see them again, but I sure love keeping them in my mind as my idealized heroes. That doesn't mean I don't understand that they might be totally ****ed up in reality. I just don't care about it since I never had the need to continue relationships with them.

Originally Posted by TeaVicar?

The therapy might not have been 'goal' orientated, might have been some short term psychodynamic on the NHS.

We don't have NHS in the US.

But short-term psychodynamic therapy is also goal oriented. "Psychodynamic" and "goal-oriented" are not necessarily mutually exclusive. I can't see how any short-term therapy, whatever modality is, can be other then goal-oriented. When both therapist and client know in advance that they have limited time, that immediately makes therapy focused on specific goals no matter what methods are used. I've been in psychodymanic short-term therapy so I speak from experience.

Originally Posted by TeaVicar?

But yes... perhaps she was better out than in... until she falls in love with the next one

And, again, this won't be a problem, if she ends therapy when some specific objectives are met and doesn't stay in therapy to "work though" transference. When you don't see the object of your love and you accept this, love dissipates overtime leaving a trace in the form of the idealized positive image of someone who helped you in some fundamental, essential way, which I find healing.

[lucozader]

Originally Posted by Ididitmyway

We don't have NHS in he US

The article is from the Guardian, which is a UK publication. Not everything is American y'know.

It's common for organisations (charities) to offer twelve weeks of counselling here. It's often person-centred, not goal oriented at all, aside from any goals that the client chooses to set themselves.

It's weird, I read it and thought 'woah, she felt that way in twelve weeks?' too, and then I realised that my extremely intense ET for my previous therapist came along at the ten session mark, so I've been there myself.

Also I was creeped out by the kiss on the head. That's not normal. It makes me wonder what else was going on in that relationship.

[Ididitmyway]

Originally Posted by lucozader

The article is from the Guardian, which is a UK publication. Not everything is American y'know.

I know. I am not an American originally

Originally Posted by lucozader

It's common for organisations (charities) to offer twelve weeks of counselling here. It's often person-centred, not goal oriented at all, aside from any goals that the client chooses to set themselves.

I don't see person-centered and goal-oriented as separate "modalities". Any therapy is "person-centered" IMO because the person in therapy is at the center or therapy . Short-term therapy tends to get much more focused because of the time constraints, that's what I meant. All these terms like "psychodynamic", "person-centered", "goal-oriented", "CBT" is just a psychobabble that, in and of itself, has no meaning. At the end of the day, therapist operates much more from their own personal biases than from any terminology.

Originally Posted by lucozader

It's weird, I read it and thought 'woah, she felt that way in twelve weeks?' too, and then I realised that my extremely intense ET for my previous therapist came along at the ten session mark, so I've been there myself.

Some people feel that way after the first meeting. Just like super neglected kids will instantly cling to any adult who shows kindness to them. Abused and neglected animals show the same behavior. Adult humans are no different. Some people carry such enormous hunger for human connection that anyone who acts kindly toward them would instantly become the object of their intense love.

Originally Posted by lucozader

Also I was creeped out by the kiss on the head. That's not normal. It makes me wonder what else was going on in that relationship.

That's a good point. I can't think of any circumstance that would compel me to kiss a client in any way, no matter how innocently it may seem. The kiss is not necessarily an indication that something was going on in the relationship, but it's an indication that the therapist got more involved emotionally than he should've.

Originally Posted by unaluna

Well, she "loves" him BECAUSE she feels that she is accepted by him. He could be the worst guy in the world IRL - throws his wet towels on the floor or something else that SHE absolutely could not accept - but she doesnt have that information available to her because of the nature of the t relationship. So her love is literally infantile, isnt it? The way an infant loves a good enough caretaker? Thats MY projection!

Eta - is it "real"? Its one sided, its limited, its immature, its needy, its not reciprocal. So it depends on what you mean by real.

It is immature and needy, but can be very real. They first emerged after years and years of being un-needy and self-sufficient, so they did seem foreign (rather unreal) at first....

These are feelings from my past experienced in the present. I think that's what's referred to as the "as if" transference?

Originally Posted by lucozader View Post
It's weird, I read it and thought 'woah, she felt that way in twelve weeks?' too, and then I realised that my extremely intense ET for my previous therapist came along at the ten session mark, so I've been there myself.

Originally Posted by Ididitmyway

Some people feel that way after the first meeting. Just like super neglected kids will instantly cling to any adult who shows kindness to them. Abused and neglected animals show the same behavior. Adult humans are no different. Some people carry such enormous hunger for human connection that anyone who acts kindly toward them would instantly become the object of their intense love.

Very interesting.

Originally Posted by Ididitmyway

Some people feel that way after the first meeting. Just like super neglected kids will instantly cling to any adult who shows kindness to them. Abused and neglected animals show the same behavior. Adult humans are no different. Some people carry such enormous hunger for human connection that anyone who acts kindly toward them would instantly become the object of their intense love.

I experienced this with some of the people I was mentoring and yes, some developed super fast, like infatuation. It took me a while until I understood what it was all about and I only understood after reading relevant psych literature, so I guess that's an equivalent of some psych training. I am not a T but I completely understand why it is challenging to deal with these feelings and behaviors (call it erotic or parental transference or whatever) in a professional setting, even one that does not aspire to "work" with these things at all but has entirely different goals for collaboration. In my experiences, it usually arose and dissipated relatively fast (weeks to a few months) if it was not reinforced/reciprocated/discussed and I kept solid boundaries no matter what the other person tried to do. The kiss sounded weird to me as well although, intellectually, I can imagine situations where it might be appropriate/beneficial and not harmful at all, depending on the interaction specific to the unique situation.

[lucozader]

Originally Posted by Ididitmyway

I know. I am not an American originally

So why were you saying that the NHS doesn't exist in the US? What did that have to do with anything, when the person in question (the author of the piece we are discussing) is in the UK?

I don't see person-centered and goal-oriented as separate "modalities". Any therapy is "person-centered" IMO because the person in therapy is at the center or therapy . Short-term therapy tends to get much more focused because of the time constraints, that's what I meant. All these terms like "psychodynamic", "person-centered", "goal-oriented", "CBT" is just a psychobabble that, in and of itself, has no meaning. At the end of the day, therapist operates much more from their own personal biases than from any terminology.

Call it or don't call it whatever you like. What I am telling you is that in the UK many charities offer short-term counselling that is not 'more focused' or remotely goal-oriented. I know because I work for such a charity.

[Ididitmyway]

Originally Posted by lucozader

So why were you saying that the NHS doesn't exist in the US? What did that have to do with anything, when the person in question (the author of the piece we are discussing) is in the UK?

Is it possible that I was not implying anything but that I just missed the fact that this was taking place in the UK? I am quite an absent minded person, I should admit, and I often miss some relevant information in books and articles because my mind mostly looks for major themes and overlooks details. It's a big shortcoming, I know, because the details may be important, but it is what it is. So, there was no sinister intention on my part to imply that I know how things operate in the UK or that everything should be "American" or to imply whatever you imagined I was implying. I simply missed a piece of information, that's all. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar, y'know

Originally Posted by lucozader

Call it or don't call it whatever you like. What I am teling you is that in the UK many charities offer short-term counselling that is not 'more focused' or remotely goal-oriented. I know because I work for such a charity.

Again, I never implied that I know how things work in the UK. What I was saying is that I personally see this type of counseling differently from how it is described by your charities or whoever else offers it. If you call it one name and I call it a different name, that doesn't mean and that doesn't imply that one of us is "right" and the other one is "wrong". All it means is that we see things differently, that's all.

[TeaVicar?]

Originally Posted by lucozader

Also I was creeped out by the kiss on the head. That's not normal. It makes me wonder what else was going on in that relationship.

It sounds a little fanciful or dream like. I can't imagine a therapist doing this, especially under those particular circumstances. I wonder if it was dreamed up for the sake of the letter and/or her own fantasy?