[Nosebleed]

I'm from India. I was raised in a Hindu family, but I'd call myself an Agnostic.
Hinduism talks about Karma and Re-incarnation till Nirvana. Just like Buddhism, apart from the fact that according to Hinduism, God is the dispenser of the fruits of Karma.

So according to Hinduism and Sikhism, I'm living a hard life because I was probably a very bad person in my previous life.
According to Buddhism and Jainism, I'm suffering because I'm too materialistic. I should actually be sitting in the middle of a forest in a Yoga pose. Then I'd be happy. haha

According to Christianity, I'm living a hard life because some chick called Eve started having a conversation with a snake and then ate an apple, some 6000 years ago.
Oh and I must become a Christian before I die or I'm going to burn in Hell forever.
According to Islam, this life is just a test and its God who actually makes us suffer. Sounds more like Satan to me.
And again, I must become a Muslim before I die or I will burn in Hell forever.

And then there's Atheism or Darwinism. So apparently, I evolved from an ape. And we are all just genetic robots. This world is just Physics, Chemistry and Biology. If you have the right kind of genes, you can be the next Bill Gates. If you have the wrong kind of genes, you might just find yourself raping and killing people. It's all about the genetic code baby and how much chemicals your glands produce.

Any of the above can be true. One of them has to be true. But which one is it? To me, they all sound equally stupid.

And what amazes me is that NO ONE has the answer. They all require a minimum amount of indoctrination.
So basically, if you use common sense, you're probably an Agnostic like me.

So no one knows where we came from, no one knows where we are going and it doesn't seem to bother most people. But it does bother me a lot. I need to find out! It just amazes me that most people just keep reproducing and perpetuating the Human race without even knowing what happens to us after we die.
I mean if someone can convince me that Darwinism is the truth, I wouldn't live another day. I'd kill myself. I refuse to live in a world where all of us are defined and controlled by bunch of chemical compounds.

So does anyone here have anything to share? Maybe someone here can make me think from a different angle?

[(JD)]

Hi nosebleed. I'm unsure of where you are at, really. If you are truly seeking and not being just cynical, that's a good place to be, imo. Of course there is a better place, as you know and wish to find.

I like it that you consider yourself an agnostic, personally. You are leaving it open to find truth.

I know of many that have found God without any indoctrination at all. After finding Him, their search changed from seeking Truth, to seeking more about Him what they chose afterwards (indoctrination?) was of their choosing?

Have you read Evidence that Demands a Verdict by Josh McDowell? That might be the type of information that you need to make a decision.

But... I truly believe that if you are seeking Whomever it is, that if you pray asking the Supreme Being to show Himself to you, He will. There is nothing magical but something very supernatural about it. God loves. He sent His Son as a sacrifice for the payment of our wrongdoings. All we have to do is accept that as a gift, from Him.

ttyl

[Nosebleed]

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
_Sky said:
God loves.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">
Is that why He keeps throwing 50% of the people who die into Hell?
(Since around 50% of the planet's population is non-Christian)

[(JD)]

Wow that was a quick transformation. Now that you not agnostic anymore, but believe there is a God that throws people into hell, why would you want to blame Him for people's own decision? People do have choice, a free will. You are direct proof of that People can choose to believe that God sends them to hell, or that they make that choice themselves. Keep searching, you will find Truth. TC

[SeptemberMorn]

Then you do believe in God! God didn't make us robots without a choice. Like Sky said, we have free will. We can make our own choices.

So of you believe in God = good, then there must be the opposite which is Satan = evil. Satan/evil is waging war with God/good. Has been since he got thrown out of Heaven with the angels that CHOSE to follow him. It's going to get worse!

People make their OWN CHOICE every day as to whether they will take the Straight, Narrow Road which leads to God/Christ and ultimately Heaven or they choose to take the wide, easy road that leads to Satan and ultimately Hell.

Besides, there' no one in Hell yet except Satan and his demons. God hasn't had the Final Judgement yet. HE will judge our works and whether we believed in Him and followed His commandments while on Earth. He will then cast the unfaithful into Hell along with Satan and tell those who were faithful to Him and Him only, "Wecome into my Kindom thou good and faithful servant."

God is all about Love and Goodness, not about cruelty. It's up to US TO MAKE THE CHOICE as to who we believe and who we follow.

The best to you on your quest.

[SerenitysWave]

[Nosebleed]

Christianity isn't the only religion with scriptures.
What makes the New Testament so much more credible?

[tranquility]

Nosebleed,

I'll jump in a little bit here. I was raised a catholic and rebelled when I turned 18 and could make my own decisions. I mostly questioned how the rules could change when the pope or the priest decided it was okay to change them. At this point I thought I was Atheist.

I've had friends of other faiths and I've always found it fascinating that there could be so many different religions and everyone thinks theirs is the right one. My personal feeling is that I don't believe the bible to be true - I used to joke that I would write my own bible and bury it in my backyard and see if a new religion starts in 20,000 years.

I will admit that I become quite frustrated and angry when certain religions will say that if you aren't in their faith you will be condemned to hell - fortunately I guess for me, I don't believe in hell.

My sister and I used to just think that we were put here to do the best we can and not hurt people and that we don't need a religion to fill in the rest.

I no longer consider myself Atheist; rather, I am spiritual. My own opinion is that there is an energy source that is made of all the good of people and it resides on the "other side". I believe that when we die, we will sit and reflect on our life. The only person to judge me will be me. I also believe that if I think I need to learn more lessons, I will reincarnate back onto the earth.

I guess my point in this is that no one really knows what is right or wrong because I don't think there is a right or wrong. I think that it is whatever you feel the strongest about will be the right thing for you - that's why they call it faith.

Tranquility

[SeptemberMorn]

The New Testament reveals that what was foretold in the Old Testament that a Messiah was to come. He came NOT to change the law and the prophets but to fulfill them. The Messiah, Jesus Christ, is the only one who has proclaimed to be the true Son of God and said "I am the Truth, the Way and the Life. No one comes to the Father but through Me." None of the other prophets, Christian or not, has sacrificed his body to atone for the sins of the world. No body else has fulfilled prophecy like Jesus has.

[Nosebleed]

Have you read any of the Hindu scriptures? There were thousands of prophecies that were fulfilled.

Also, the Muslims use a similar argument about Mohammed.

[SeptemberMorn]

Did Mohammed say "I am the Truth, the Way and the Life. No one comes to the Father but through Me"? Was Mohammed crusified and did he rise on the third day? Did he rise from the dead at all?

[Nosebleed]

No but he did say that he was the final prophet from God. And that Jesus was another prophet before him, not the son of God.

Who should I believe? And why?

Krishna (who is the Hindu equivalent of Jesus) said that He was God incarnate. He said many lovely things just like Jesus. He performed miracles just like Jesus. He was born to a virgin, just like Jesus. He wasn't crucified like Jesus, but how does the fact that Jesus was crucified prove that He was God?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bhagavad_Gita

[SeptemberMorn]

If all you say is indeed fact, these men still did not pay the ultimate price to redeem mankind. Jesus suffered, bled and died as the ultimate blood sacrifice of redemption so that we wouldn't have to. He conquered death just like we will in the end and he ascended into Heaven just like we will on the final day. Jesus said he was going to prepare a place for us. He also said that whoever knows him, knows the Father. He gave us the Holy Spirit to comfort us and advocate for us until he returns. He is the Triune God. We have His same aspects of body, soul and spirit.

None of the other "prophets" have done this or can claim this. Prophets are 100% mortals. Jesus is both mortal and immortal/God in the flesh.

[(JD)]

The fact that Christ fulfilled all the prophecies of the Old Manuscripts AND that he not only died but conquered death and hell and rose back to life IS proof He is God.

Prophecies and types of each book of the Bible fulfilled in Jesus Christ and His Church, a total of 1,093
92 Prophecies of the Psalms fulfilled in Jesus Christ
121 Prophecies of Isaiah fulfilled in Jesus Christ

George Heron, a French mathematician, calculated that the odds of one man fulfilling only 40 of those prophecies are 1 in 10 to the power of 157. That is a 1 followed by 157 zeros. Compare it to this; your odds on winning the state lottery are 14 followed by 6 zeros.

Another mathematician, Dr. Peter S. Ruckman, claims the odds of being fulfilled only 60 of them by the only person who claimed to be the Son of God, and who died on a "tree" on Calvary, and who rose the 3rd day are astronomical!... not just one in one trillion, but one out of ten to the 895th power. That is a one over a one followed by 895 zeros.

[Nosebleed]

^
What about all those contradictions in the Bible?

http://www.kingdavid8.com/Contradictions/Home.html

Also, why won't God heal amputees?
http://www.whywontgodhealamputees.com

[(JD)]

Nosebleed, I thank you for the wonderful reference dispelling any idea of contradictions in the Bible. I would like to add that unless someone fully understands not only the original languages, but the specific times and events of which much of it is written, you might think there are contradictions. There are none, though.

Now, what is the main issue you need support for, for truly it is not these things that you suggest?
Are you angry at God? Do you know why? You and I have no issues between us. How can I help you?

[Rapunzel]

Hi Nosebleed, and welcome to this forum. I read your post when you first posted it, but I have waited to reply when I had a little more time. It's hard to detect tone in this kind of communication, so it's hard to know if you are searching for answers to your questions, or if you are wanting to debate. Your replies so far seem more closed than open, as if you already know what you want to say and are here more to dispute others' beliefs than to find answers for yourself. I hope not, because this site is a place for spiritual support, not for debate.

That said, I would like to share what I believe. Nothing will make you think from a different angle, however, because how you think is your choice and nobody can make that choice for you.

I am Christian - a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. We are commonly called Mormons because we have an additional book of scripture that was compiled by Mormon. Mormon was a prophet who lived in America hundreds of years ago. His people came from Jerusalem around 600 B.C. You may be interested in reading The Book of Mormon as part of your quest for answers. If you would like one, please PM me, and I can arrange to get a copy to you. We also believe in the Old Testament and the New Testament.

I believe that there is truth in all religions, but there may also be distortions here and there. It is only with revelation from God that we can put all of the pieces together. We might not have all of the pieces, because God still reveals more.

I believe that we lived before we were born into this life, but not as mortals cycling through other lives (although we may have been closely involved with others and their lives, and we may have helped them along). Before this life, we lived with our Father in Heaven in the spirit world. We are eternal beings with no beginning and no end, always progressing, or striving to progress. As spirits, we progressed as far as we could in that state. In order to continue, we needed physical bodies. So the earth was formed and prepared, and we each have the opportunity to be born, and to be tested, and to prove to ourselves who we really are.

Adam and Eve, our first parents, were part of the plan, and the fall had to happen in order for us to come into the world. They did introduce transgression into the world, but it had to be. There must be opposition in the world so that we will be able to know and appreciate the good as well as the evil. You would not know what it means to be healthy if you were never sick. Suffering is part of the experience, but we are promised that we will not be tested beyond what we can bear. There was another plan proposed, wherein everyone would be saved and nobody would have to suffer, or make choices, or be responsible for anything. We would have had no agency, and would have been like the animals who can't choose and are not accountable for their actions. We are all here because we chose Jesus's plan, and trusted that he, our brother, would come down and redeem us by paying the price that none of us could pay.

I believe that God is merciful, and loves us, and does not want us to suffer. He is also just, and will hold us accountable for what we have been taught and know to be true. Those who do not have the opportunity during this life to learn of the gospel will be able to learn even after death. You will be able to make an informed choice, knowing what it is that you are choosing.

After we die, there will be work to do such as learning, and helping others. We will wait, but it won't seem like such a very long time when we regain the memory of our eternal existance. We will be resurrected and receive immortal bodies. In the final judgement, we will stand before our Father, and discuss what we did with our time, and whether we have become the beings that we could be. If we are worthy, we will enter the presence of God and continue to progress and to work towards becoming like our Heavenly Parents. Those who have made other choices and are not able to be in the presence of God will receive levels of glory that are appropriate and comfortable for them. Only those who rebel, and reject God and the gifts that he wants to give us will be cast out.

There is some truth in all of the beliefs that you mentioned. None of them, as you have stated them, are the complete truth. The answers will not come from me, or from any human source. You will find the answers when you ask God and he reveals the truth to you. What I have told you is what I believe, and you are free to do as you feel is right with it. If you don't want to know more, I will respect your choice. If you would like to know more, I would be pleased to share all that I have been given.

[TYMBERWOLV]

if im not mistaken the bible is the only religious book that has withstood all the test

it has been found credible by archological finds

[blah__x]

actually the Qur'an has been unchanged since it was first revealed. the bible has been changed many times and revised (im not talking about translations i mean when the romans would get together and literally debate on which books to include)

i have been leaning alot to islam lately, makes more sense to me than anything else..

(i dont mean to debate but..)
i for one find it IMPOSSIBLE to believe that jesus (or anyone for that matter) should die for other's sins. is that justice?

anyway im finding islam answers more of my questions about pre-life, death and everything in between.

keep searching nosebleed

[blah__x]

by the way, jesus never said that he is god, god's son, or that he is worthy of any higher status than a prophet and a messenger. the notion of his divinity was introduced afterward...

"Monotheism taught by Jesus Christ first degenerated into ditheism according to those who held that Jesus was not God the father, but a created divine son. This was also the case among the Greeks who identified Jesus as the Logos, found in the philosophies of Anaxagoras through to Aristotle. Later it further degenerated into tritheism among the Romans who officially sanctioned the trinitarian concept. Finally it degenerated into ... polytheism in the Roman Catholic Church, wherein Mary and a series of ... saints were given the powers of intercession and protection."

-The Fundamentals of Islamic Monotheism, by Dr. Abu Ameenah Bilal Philips

then it states a similar situation with Islam and the way that some sects have done similar things so its not an attack on christianity rather a discussion on religion throughout history.

interesting though i've read this elsewhere and it makes sense to me. anyone know how accurate it is??

[(JD)]

Welcome to the thread Gabriel. Yes, those statements are close to debating But hopefully we can get through this without having it become a debate, and having the thread locked on nosebleed?

Christ did certainly declare He is.

What affected me the most when I read the Q'uran is that there is no mention of a loving God. The Bible is full of the Love of God. That's a big difference to me. I need love, and I need to hear it from God.

Are you all familiar with the history of the Judaism and Islam? The roots are the same, aren't they?

Perhaps we need nosebleed to return with a post to let us know where he wishes the thread to go...

TC!

[blah__x]

really? i never came across it in the bible..do you know where i could find that? just out of curiosity i've never seen it myself.

yes hopefully it wont become a debate

i was interested in what you said about the Qur'an. im a curious person so i checked it out and i did find something (i didnt look very far im pretty tired right now, i grabbed the first thing i found)

"... cast not yourselves to perdition with your own hands, and do good (to others); surely God loves the doers of good."

i might have to double check the reference tomorrow but my eyes are telling me 2:195.. (chances are i misread that, the text is tiny) but its around there somewhere at least

ah yes the children of Abraham. Izaac apparently "lead" Judaism and Ishmail "lead" Islam.. i say "lead" because they didnt literally start them..oh u know what i mean right?

strangely enough im not a very religious person but its an area i have great interest in

and yes where has nosebleed gone? he'lll have to backtrack what everyones said.

take care i'll be off to bed soon

[blah__x]

or rather, Izaac was the father of the Jews, and Ishmail was the father of the Arabs, and later Muslims.

im not making sense am i..?

maybe the----*falls asleep on keyboard*

[Rapunzel]

I also hope that we are all able to participate in this thread without turning it into debate. Yes, there is a lot of archeological evidence for the Bible and the Qur'an. There is also archeological evidence for the Book of Mormon. However, faith does not come from archeological proof. Scientific study of the evidence doesn't necessarily lead to belief, although plenty of evidence is found to confirm plausibility.

And, yes, we have much in common. I think that one reason there has always been so much conflict in the middle east is because it is a place with so much significance to so many people, who all have roots and heritage going back to one small area. Abraham's seed are now spread throughout the entire world. We are all one big family.

[jefftele]

i do share a similar view on religion as you most off the time .i think its all a load off man made nonsense to control the masses, if it was that simple!! for me at least, it seems that all cultures have /had a belief in the supernatural so which comes first ? i'm at a stage (and i've had loads of stages) where i think that if there is a god ,religion gets in the way of my connection with whatever it is! one thing i strongly feel is with all the suffering in the world if there is a god he/she must have a warped sense of humour!!