[EJ711]

Does God love us as much when He leads us through bad, sad, hard times, as when he allows us to enjoy successful times with money to enjoy the finer things in life?

I believe He loves us just the same, but because we are so fleshly, it is so much easier to believe He loves us more in the good times.

What does everybody else think?

EJ

[bebop]

I think He loves us the same all the time

[ally88]

I am going through a really tough time right now and its so easy to be mad at God right now even though I know i shouldnt be. I am mad...whether or not its right. But in answer to your question, even as mad as I get sometimes at life and God, its times like that, that I begin to remember that God gives us times like these to make us stronger and maybe...just maybe, they wont last forever and even if they do...the thing you have to remember is that when we suffer, we suffer for christ and we are following in his footsteps and he knows how we feel and understands when nobody else can.

[Direction]

I found this when I was in high school and it gave me much comfort...You may have seen in before...just though it was good reminder...

Footprints

One night a man had a dream. He dreamed
he was walking along the beach with the LORD.

Across the sky flashed scenes from his life.
For each scene he noticed two sets of
footprints in the sand: one belonging
to him, and the other to the LORD.

When the last scene of his life flashed before him,
he looked back at the footprints in the sand.

He noticed that many times along the path of
his life there was only one set of footprints.

He also noticed that it happened at the very
lowest and saddest times in his life.

This really bothered him and he
questioned the LORD about it:

"LORD, you said that once I decided to follow
you, you'd walk with me all the way.
But I have noticed that during the most
troublesome times in my life,
there is only one set of footprints.
I don't understand why when
I needed you most you would leave me."

The LORD replied:

"My son, my precious child,
I love you and I would never leave you.
During your times of trial and suffering,
when you see only one set of footprints,
it was then that I carried you."

...When I first read this I weeped and again after reading it...

[bebop]

my favorite poem!

[Rapunzel]

If I had more time I would look up the parables about the lost sheep and the lost piece of silver. Yes, he loves us just as much. And he also loves us just as much when we're on the right path. I think sometimes we can feel overlooked when we are just going along and doing as we should. I know a song about that too, and I'll try to post it later this weekend.

[EJ711]

Hi Ally,

I was raised Catholic, but later converted to Protestantism.

As a Catholic, I was afraid to be mad at God. However, one of my protestant friends said, "He's a big guy. He can take it if you are mad at time." She said, "You can even pound on His chest!"

I have been pretty mad at Him too lately. It is so silly not to talk to Him about it, b/c He knows what we are thinking. So I finally told Him a few weeks back how mad I was, and things seemed to start to shift and change some.

Suffering passes through God's hands before we experience it, and He does intend it for good.

Please PM me if you want.

Hugs,

EJ

[EJ711]

Hi Direction,

The Footprints poem is so insightful and true.

Thanks for posting it so we can all be reminded that He is always with us, especially when we don't feel His presence.

Hugs,

EJ

[bebop]

I love the poem and it has great meaning to me but you know I am so tired of God having to carry me. I want so much to walk beside Him.

[EJ711]

Bebop,

I can use all the carrying I can get right now, with my broken ankle.

Hugs,

EJ

[EJ711]

Rapunzel,

What beautiful hair you have!

I know the parables you are referencing about the lost sheet and the coin.

I'll be watching for the hymn you mentioned.

Hugs,

EJ

[bebop]

hahahaha EJ

[sabby]

I believe that God loves us even more when we are angry at him and going through very difficult times. How else would we get through them if he wasn't there supporting us and giving us lessons to learn?

Hugssssssss
Jean

[Rapunzel]

I promised I would come back to this thread. The parables of the lost sheep, the piece of silver, and the prodigal son, are in Luke 15.
</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
What man of you, having an hundred sheep, if he lose one of them, doth not leave the ninety and nine in the wilderness, and go after that which is lost, until he find it?

And when he hath found it, he layeth it on his shoulders, rejoicing.

And when he cometh home, he calleth together his friends and neighbours, saying unto them, Rejoice with me; for I have found my sheep which was lost.

I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

That seems to say that the one that strays is valued above the ones that are where they should be, doing all the right things. Sometimes I've felt like maybe I should rebel a little, just to get someone to care about me.

There is a song (in the book/album that I posted about a while ago) that is comforting if you're one of the 99, and wondering if God cares about you too.

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>

I am one of the ninety and nine.
I'm not perfect, but basically I'm doing fine.
I have not lost my way, I have not gone astray.
I'm just one of the ninety and nine.
And I'm here in the heart of the fold.
I'm not mindless, but I try to do as I'm told.
I'm not tempted to run and become a lost one.
I'm just here at the heart of the fold.

So why is my shepherd coming this way toward me?
He's holding his arms out and calling my name.
He's calling my name, but how can this be?
I'm just one of the ninety and nine.
I have stumbled and fallen, but I've kept in line.
I'm not one He must seek; I'm not all that unique.
I'm just one of the ninety and nine.

So why is my shepherd treating me like His lost lamb?
He's searching to find ... me ... and He's holding me now,
He's holding me now, and teaching me who I am.
And why am I feeling like I'm the only one here?
It's like ... it's like I'm his favorite ...
And He takes me aside and He sweetly confides
These remarkable words in my ear. He says:

"You're one of the ninety and nine.
Have you any idea how brightly you shine?
You are safe in this fold
And it's time you were told that I know where you've been,
So I know where you'll be,
Because all of your life you've been following me.
You are more than just one of the sands of the sea
Or just one of the ninety and nine:
You are mine ... you are mine ... you are mine ... you are mine."
Guess I'm one of the ninety and nine.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

[SeptemberMorn]

Wendy, the words of that song are so special! Thanks for sharing it.

[sabby]

All I can say is...

Beautiful!

Hugssssss
Jean

people don't often like to talk about Job. But God loved Job. Job was meant to be one of the dudes who loved and followed God most devotedly. Then along came Satan and he mocked God and said something along the lines of 'your followers only follow you 'cause of all the blessings you bestow on them if they fell to hard times they would split, you know'. God kinda puffed out his chest in a 'i can %#@&#! further than you' kinda way and said that he would allow Satan to plague Job with misfortune in order to test his faith.

(See - God doesn't test our faith - he stands aside in order for Satan to test it).

And so all kindsa %#@&#! happened to Job. He lost his wealth he lost his family etc etc etc.

Oh how God loved Job...

[SeptemberMorn]

What you forgot to include in the story was how richly God blessed Job for his faithfulness to God. He gave him back everything he lost and then some!

God and Job did have a love thing going!

EDIT: Job 42:10-17

10 After Job had prayed for his friends, the LORD made him prosperous again and gave him twice as much as he had before. 11 All his brothers and sisters and everyone who had known him before came and ate with him in his house. They comforted and consoled him over all the trouble the LORD had brought upon him, and each one gave him a piece of silver [a] and a gold ring.

12 The LORD blessed the latter part of Job's life more than the first. He had fourteen thousand sheep, six thousand camels, a thousand yoke of oxen and a thousand donkeys. 13 And he also had seven sons and three daughters. 14 The first daughter he named Jemimah, the second Keziah and the third Keren-Happuch. 15 Nowhere in all the land were there found women as beautiful as Job's daughters, and their father granted them an inheritance along with their brothers.

16 After this, Job lived a hundred and forty years; he saw his children and their children to the fourth generation. 17 And so he died, old and full of years.

[bebop]

amen tomi!

[SeptemberMorn]

I might add, too, that God allowed Satan to test Job because God knew how much Job could stand. He knew Job's strength.

Job got angry at God, yes. But he never moved away from God.

[(JD)]

I think of two scriptures first, when thinking about being angry (at) God... He says, Come now and let us reason together. and... He says, Trust me, try me, prove me says the Lord God of Hosts and see if I will not pour out a blessing upon you...

God knows us better than we know ourselves, and when he says let us REASON together, LOL he understands our lack of it, and how we just don't understand HIS reasoning most of the time.

God loves us, and "upbraideth not" for our ignorance as long as we come to Him with our issues.

> I might add, too, that God allowed Satan to test Job because God knew how much Job could stand. He knew Job's strength.

wow. i guess that makes it okay then ;-)

[SeptemberMorn]

Yes, it does. You see, Job didn't only suffer through everything that Satan threw at him, in the end, he came out a stronger man with an unshakable faith in his God.

If Job had spent all of his life before Satan's attack doing good for people, being kind, helping in every way he could, Job then had a greater understanding of suffering after Satan's attack and he no doubt continued helping, proping up, encouraging, giving financial aid and whatever else he did for people, with a keener understanding of what he was doing... and probably with a lot more love.

What you fail to see, Alexandra, is that God is the perfect parent. He isn't a codler. He gives us challenges to help us grow as healthy as we can... all according to where in our growth we are. Job was well along on his faith path with God. He never once lost his faith in God. He got angry, just like any of us did when our parents let us suffer through our own problems, but he knew that God had never once abandoned him. That's why he continually prayed to God. He ranted, he begged for mercy, but he knew God was with him. That is FAITH! And he was blessed RICHLY for it, too.

[Rapunzel]

Some of us believe that it is the purpose of this life to be tested. Making it through something that you didn't know you could handle makes you stronger. God allows us to be tested because it improves us, and helps us to become more like Him. This life wasn't meant to be a cake walk all the time. Where faith comes in is in trusting that God will not allow us to be tested beyond what we can handle, and that He knows our limits. So you can make it through your challenges because you won't be given more than what you can do.

i guess that the children in third world countries who are born with HIV and who die of starvation and / or infected drinking water before their first birthday must have such strong faith (as opposed to original sin) in order for God to allow them to be tested so.

especially since they have never even heard of 'Christ' or 'Jesus' or 'God' and lack the cognitive capacity to commit to follow any of the above or to confess / repent from their sins.

or perhaps they are being punished for the sins of their ancestors.

God loves us to much that he made the world such that... people needed to suffer in order to have greater faith... why couldn't he have made it such that suffering wasn't required for faith to increase? oh, but God can do anything so I guess the question becomes: 'why did God choose to make it such that we needed to suffer in order to have greater faith?'

Was the holocaust to increase the faith of the Jewish peoples do people think?

Personally...

I think it is a cop out. It is a way of attempting to explain why bad things happen to good people. I don't think it does explain why bad things happen to good people, however. It just shuffles the problem back one step to 'why did God make it such that one had to suffer the bad in order to increase our faith'?

Another thing that it does is shift (or absolve) us from responsibility. Instead of intervening (to help those in the third world, to help those like Job) one can simply proclaim 'it is God's will! God will help him when he is ready to be helped!'

Sometimes things suck IMHO. It would be great if we took steps to doing something about it. But... They will reap their rewards or if they don't seem to be reaping their rewards then God will surely give them their just desserts in the afterlife. So... Doesn't matter really. One just needs to be apathetic and have faith in God!

What does it matter that the holocaust happened when the people will reap eternal reward in heaven?

I do struggle with this... Considerably...