God, Archtypes, and Jungian Psychology

Thanks for sharing this with us. I could look at crop cirlces and mandalas all day and get something new from them everytime.

I like that suggestion that Creator is making them and getting better and more intrecate each time. The concept of the ancestors sharing messages. I like that.

What is most interesting to me is how cirlces touch people in different ways. Some get really into the mathmatics of it all while others are drawn by the balance of the design and others by the detail of the shapes and others by the combined impressions.

The importance of perspective in communication. From inside the circle is one view, above the cirlce another, with some distance from the circle still another view.

All a reflection of a life lessons that can inspire, instruct and inform us on our everyday journey as flesh and as spirit both in perfect harmony and collective beauty with creation and the Creator.

thanks chocolatelover... just a little more info here...

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
SACRED GEOMETRY -- WHAT IS IT?
The term "sacred geometry" is used by archaeologists, anthropologists, and geometricians to encompass the religious, philosohical, and spiritual beliefs that have sprung up around geometry in various cultures during the course of human history. It is a catch-all term covering Pythagorean geometry and neo-Platonic gometry, as well as the perceived relationships between organic curves and logarithmic curves.

Here are a few examples of how the "sacred" has entered into geometry in different eras and cultures:

1) The ancient Greeks assigned various attributes to the Platonic solids and to certain geometrically-derived ratios, investing them with "meaning." For example, the cube symbolized kingship and earthly foundations, while the Golden Section was seen as a dynamic principle embodying philosphy and wisdom. Thus a building dedicated to a god-king might bear traces of cubic geometry, while one dedicated to a heavenly god might have been constructed using Golden Section proportions.

2) When Hindus (ancient and modern) plan to erect any ediface for religious purposes, from a small wayside shrine to an elaborate temple, they first perform a simple geometric construction on the ground, establishing due East and West and constructing a square therefrom. (It's a simple, elegant piece of work, at about the level of high school geometry). Upon this dioagram they lay out the entire building. The making of this geometric construction is accomanied by prayers and other religious observances.

3) The Christian religion uses the cross as its major religious emblem, and in geometric terms this was elaborated during the Medieval period to the form of an unfolded cube (reminiscent of example #1 above, where the cube was equated with kingship). Many Gothic cathedrals were built using proportions derived from the geometry inherent in the cube and double-cube; this tradition continues in modern Christian churches to the present time.

4) The ancient Egyptians discovered that regular polygons can be increased while still maintaining the ratio of their sides by the addition of a strictly constructed area (which was later named the "gnomon" by the Greeks); the Egyptians assigned the concept of the ratio-retaining expansion of a rectangular area to the god Osiris, who was, therefore, often shown in ancient Egyptian frescoes seated on a square throne (square= kingship again) in which the original square and its L-shaped gnomon are clearly delineated, but the geometrical construction used to create the gnomon is not shown. It is, in fact, the absense of the attendent arcs and extension lines used in the creation of geometric forms that has led art historians and iconographers such a merry chase through history. It often takes the eye of a geomterician to spot the tell-tale signs of construction.

5) One of the best-known pieces of detective work in this regard was the discovery by Jay Hambidge, an art historian at Yale University during the 1920s, that the spirals on the Ionic column capitals of ancient Greek temples were laid out by the so-called "whirling rectangle" method for creation of a logarithmic spiral. He realized this by examining numerous Ionic capitals in art museums until he located some in which the holes made by the placement of compass points had not been obliterated over time. (One of these capitals was an unfinished, broken piece, dug up from a rubbish heap near a temple -- it had apparently been damaged during manufacture and was discarded; its burial preserved it from the elements, and the marks of the geometeric layout were remarkably clear upon it.)

No "sacred meaning" for the log spiral form of the Ionic column capital has been determined from Greek writings, but the use of other log spirals in Greek temple architecture (for instance in floor-block proportions and their placement in relation to overall floor area) indicates that Greek architects, unlike the Romans who came after them, deliberately constructed their temples according to "whirling rectangle" geometeric ratios.

I could multiply examples almost endlessly.

Not everyone who catalogues and writes about sacred geometry considers geometry itself to be inherently spiritual; for some of us, sacred geometry is an adjunct to the study of archaeology, architecture, art history, comparative religion, anthropology, archaeoastronomy, or geometry itself.

Sadly, many books on the subject of sacred geometry are chock full of extraneous blather about UFOs and perpetual motion and Atlantean Science (whatever that is). Even worse, unexpected encounters with such drivel tends to discourage research into the subject by steely-eyed geometricians -- who are, of course, those most qualified to undertake the work.

Over the years i have come up with a theory that encompasses three interlocked reasons for the unfortunate state of affairs by which the once-honoured field of sacred geometry is now often perceived as something akin to pyramidology or spirit-channelling.

1) There was an actual loss of general geometric knowledge during the Dark Ages -- the old Egyptian and Greek geometry was no longer passed along as it had been; instead it became the secret of such trade guilds as made use of it. Thus geometry became "mysterious."

2) Although interest in geometry revived during the Renaissance, the adoption of the Arabic numbering system had already led many Europeans onto a different way of thinking when it came to numbers. Specificly, because the irrational numbers that are so common in geometrical proofs are difficult to handle arithmetically, they became the domain of academic mathematicians. Thus sacred geometry -- which allows one to rattle off irrational number formulae like ".618... : 1 :: 1 : 1.618..." before having one's morning coffee -- seemed rather hard to master. And, the joke of it all is that "1.618..." is but a rude approximation, anyway -- just something for folks with rulers to measure after the geometricians have put down their compasses.

3) During the 19th century the sizes of construction materials became quite standardized for the first time. A common brick was 2 x 4 x 8 inches; lumber came in 12 foot lengths that were 1 or 2 or 4 or 8 or 12 inches wide and a similar choice of numbers deep. Construction therefore took on a more arithmetic aspect than it had when geometric ratio was the prime mover behind design. In a wooden frame house of typical Victorian style, a vernacular builder could lay out the work using simple arithmetic.

An "architect-designed" house of an earlier period might have included a spiral staircase -- a test of geometric knowledge -- but by the late 19th century tables of angles printed on steel framing squares obviated the need for carpenrters to study even the small amount of geometry used in figuring out the area of a roof gable.

I believe that the combination of these three factors led many 19th century scholars (especially those who were culturally bound up in colonialist feelings of superiority toward conquered races) to decide that it was inconceivable that ancient cultures could have known enough "math" to have used "irrational numbers" to construct architectural monuments. One thing these writers failed to consider was that a culture that relied on compass-and-straight-edge geometry rather than arithmetic to design structures would not give a fig that some of the lengths turned out to be irrational numbers. The numbers (or rather, the lengths they represented) would simply appear during the course of construction and that would be that.

Jay Hambidge pioneered the technique of searching for certain typically "sacred" geometric ratios among the arithmetic measurements of ancient articfacts. Like all sacred geometry detectives, he had to work backwards -- he took arithmetic measurements of Greek vases and temples and derived from them their geometric construction. This is not as simple as it sounds, because many times an arithmetical construction will duplicate the results of a geometric construction -- in fact, in order to derive even the faintest proof that geometric contruction underlay Greek arhcitecture, he had to perform calculations on dozens of items of differing size, establishing beyond doubt that it was RATIO, not measurement, that determined the relative lengths of crucial dimensions.

The hardest battle Hambidge fought was convincing academics of his day that the ancient Greeks were "sophisticated" enough to have used geometry to lay out their temples. For someone to double check his figures meant the work of years, and few wanted to devote the time to it. (Only recently, with the lightning-quick calculations offered to us by computers, has it become possible to "deconstruct" an ancient temple into its geometric basis with anything approaching efficient speed or to determine the intended astro-calendrical orientation of a temple constructed thousands of years in the past.)

Hambidge did fine work -- and one would think that he and his students would have proved the case for the legitimacy of sacred geometry beyond reasonable doubt -- but he wrote at a peculiar time in history. It was then, during the inter-War period -- when Hambidge's 1925 book "The Parthenon and Other Greek Temples: Their Dynamic Symmetry" was in print, when King Tut's tomb had been discovered, when Theosophy and Rosicruciansism were at the height of their popularity -- that the "mystery" of sacred geometry became bound up with the writings of people whose interests lay far afield from the use of the compass and the straight-edge.

It's hard to say where the art deco theories of Hambidge's students Edward B. Edwards (author of "Dynamarhythmic Design") and Walter Dorwin Teague (author of "Design This Day" and designer of Texaco Gas Stations) leave off and the metaphysical theories of fellow Hambidge student -- and Theosophist -- Claude Bragdon (author of "The Beautiful Necessity" and designer of railroad terminals) begin. Bragdon seems so...normal...as he writes about the Golden Mean and creates a new design style based on projective geometry, that it comes as quite a shock to find him edging into the theory that Man is a Cube, crucified in Time. Still, to his credit, Bragdon, despite dedicating one of his volumes to "The Delphic Sisterhood," was a practicing architect.

Beyond Bragdon, however, a line is crossed -- and one finds onself confounded by writers of that period such as Manley P. Hall, who lumps sacred geometry together with belief in Lemuria, spirit chanelling, Enochian magic, and Rosicrucianism. And he wasn't the worst, by far. The 1960s hippie interest in the occult and the 1990s New Age interest in spirituality have both given library shelf space to authors intent on inventing or perpetuatiing imputed connections between saced geometry, metaphysics, fringe archaeology, magic, and eccentric religions.

In maintaining the Sacred Landscape Bibliography, i list many books that present mystical and even other-worldly claims, but they have been clearly labelled as such. To ignore spiritually oriented or even scientifically lunatic texts would be to ignore a vast part of the writing on the subject of sacred geometry and sacred architecture. So drink deep, but do not swallow every draught uncritically, for to do so would be to drink from a polluted pool.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

link: http://healing.about.com/gi/dynamic/...eddefined.html

sometimes i think the circles were put there for us because
every circle in life means something different to each person
In times in life you have to keep going in the same circle before you figure out where you are going

i think circles is a repetitive theme in life... circles and cycling seem to go hand in hand..

in some traditions, the cycle of life, is represented by a circle... mandalas can be one example, the yin/yan symbol, and the Wheel of Life (including numerous reincarnations) are a few examples...

for me, a cycle is equivalent to a trap...

i wonder if the reason ancient 'sacred' architecture included a spiral staircase is symbolic of the transcendence one must aspire to so that the 'circle' (cycle) may be broken...

if i'm not mistaken, the Wheel of Life teachings include an 'escape' from the wheel...

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
The Lamas of Tibet say that Buddha himself originated the Wheel of Life, forming it on the Earth with grains of rice from a "rice-field school room." According to the old story, while tarrying for a while at the Squirrels' Feeding Ground in the Venuvana forest near Rajagriha, Buddha instructed his disciple Ananda, to make a Wheel, for the sake of illustrating what another disciple had seen when he visited other spheres. This Wheel was to have five spokes, between which were to be shown the several hells, animals, ghosts, gods and men. In the middle a dove, a serpent, and a hog were to symbolise lust, hatred, and ignorance. Around the outer rim was to wind "the twelve-fold circle of causation," in regular and inverse order. Beings were to be shown "as being born in a supernatural way as by the machinery of a water-wheel falling from one state and being produced in another." Buddha himself, as an "Enlightened One," liberated from the fate of recurrence on the Wheel, was to be outside of it--one who had escaped.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

link: http://www.sacred-texts.com/earth/boe/boe18.htm

tomorrow is when America celebrates Martin Luther King, Jr.

In His Honor:

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
The Answer to a Perplexing Question"
(On overcoming a bad habit)

"What, then, is the way out? Not by our own efforts, and not by a purely external help from God. One cannot remove an evil habit by my resolution; nor can it be done by simply calling on God to do the job. It can be done only when a man lifts himself up until he can put his will into the hands of God's will as an instrument."

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

link: http://www.beliefnet.com/story/97/story_9766_1.html

wahh!! what happened to all the other quotes? Just came back to read some more of them and they were gone.

Interesting you left the one quote that I pondered the most....

Nice tribute to a great man.

here's the rest of the quotes chocolate... in a different thread... Yes, MLK, Jr. .....

link: http://forums.psychcentral.com/showf...5&o=93&fpart=1

lol..... my mistake.... lol

well chocolate, all... guess thats about it, if its not in here, i dont know what it is...

thanks, you kept your promise and stayed with me til the end...

Blessings

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
nowheretorun said:
Kathy, Muffy, Perna, Chocolate, and All...

i was really hoping to refer to something besides the Bible and Jesus..

being raised in America, its nearly impossible to live without bubmping into those topics again and again and for me, its like a brick wall... unless i accept Jesus in my heart as my personal savior, according to "them" i can expect to go to Hell... i dont care for this type thinking...

imo, God is an entity separate from the teachings of any man or woman... i really felt a breakthrough at realizing that God can be seen, heard, felt... but to try and mentally diagnose becomes a puzzle with parts from many cultures and faiths...

i, myself, would prefer to see the Spirit as undistilled and as pure as possible.. personally, i find the Bible and its system o be an entrapment of sorts... conditions are placed upon my own Spirit in order to find and experience that whoch is free in its entirety.. how does one feel this free truth by boxing oneself into dogma?

It is the conditionalm acceptance that traditional Christianity places on my soul that i am uneasy with..

imo, God is aware of my human limitations and i am forgiven for that reason alone... i need not qualify for acceptance in Gods' arms... i was made by God for a purpose.. i agree with Jung that i have Moral obligation to uphold that purpose.. i do not believe in God as a damning judge...

i believe in God as a life affirming and supportive friend, one who loves me unconditionally despite my imperfections...

when an attempt is made to manipulate Gods' image for mans' gain, i believe this is the definaition of blasphemy...

to use the image of God to manipulate Gods' children is an act worth damining imo, but it is not Hell (after death) that one will experience, but Hell on Earth.. in the formm of war, social unrest, domestic violence, insanity, etc...

to use a path of salvation as an instrument to incite fear and intolerance and death is, imo, one of the greatest sins mankind can commit.. and if there is a Hell after death, i believe those guilty of creating Hell on Earth are destined for it...

God, imo, has no desire to see or participate in the slaughter of man...

this is why, imo, i am turned from the faiths which use and manipulate words to conscribe to evil...

i believe history repeats itself in many cases because of reliance upon ideaolgies that have gained large followings, led by those who maintain political connections and in turn young men and women find themselves on bloody foriegn soil... this is not what God is about imo...

any book or text which supports same, is not sacred and is not God, but the minds of wealthy, powerful and manipulative men and women... alive now, and working on their own goals, in this day and age, in the present...

then horrors of religious manipulation continue still... how long will we be the pawns in this game?

when will we break free?

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

I have been reading this thread most of the day......This part just struck me as being so well said.........
The sheeps 2 cents

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
muffy said:
</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
nowheretorun said:

God, imo, has no desire to see or participate in the slaughter of man...


</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

Imo, This is a very good point

something to ponder on .....how man manipulates the word, in the name of the spirit, imo

but he did destroy the world in a flood some would say

in the Eastern traditions, destruction is part of the ritual of the mandala...

for there to be new growth, that which has served the cycle is released... one of the Bibles ways of talking about destruction was the flood story...

the steps in the Mandala ritual follow a cycling tanscendent pattern, in this order, listed here:

Purification
Centering
Orientation
Construction
Absorbtion
Destruction
Reintegration
Actualization

each step of the process is performed while the artists concentrate on each granule of sand placed in the mandala pattern... in a team of four the mandala is created side by side, in synchronistic unison...

each level, color, position, relationship to all other elements are carefully accounted for...

the process is painstakingly endured, without pain or endurance...

the ritual is about connection... the layers represent realms of consciousness... mandalas may be used for different healing purposes, custom designed for the individual it is created for, the concept or prayer associated, and each mandala is unique as the people who create them

and then they are destroyed.....

Hi NW.... where would one go to learn how or experience the making of a mandala.... sounds like an amazing experience.

I've witnessed Navaho sandpainted but that's the closest I've come.

there are courses available in some communities across the US ... not sure in your area? ... i have a copy of 'Mandala' by Jose' and Miriam Arguilles .. prob avail at amazon....

some universities offer courses that i know about.... one can research it online and learn there as well..... the internet has helped a lot to make this information available to everyone

i could tell more if anyone is interested... the instrucions are short , simple, clear.... the questions can be many...

Thanks NW... I'll do a google search and see what I can find.

Where and when did you first learn to do them? What benefit do you get?

I know you've told me this before so I hope you don't mind indulging my short memory again.

I'ld like to hear the instruction... what do you mean by 'the questions can be many'... the questions asked when making the mandala? is that what you mean?

http://www.brown.edu/Research/Buddhi...betanArt9.html

Here is a link to the meanings behind the rituals. When used this way, you are invoking magik?

Christians use circles and mandalas, and such as labrynth's yes, but as an example, the Cross is the symbol for power and such, as the mandala is used by those who empower it.

yes _Sky.. spot on

To Him Who is the Lord of the Center
To the Diamond Weaver
The Invisible Father of the Sun
Who is seated on the Throne of the Archetypes
Teller of the Fables in the Celestial Night
Dreamer of the Visions of All Men
Teacher of the Twelve-fold Rites of the Sun
Keeper of the Book of Days
Seed of the Names of All Things
Seer of All Entrances and Partings
He Who sets in motion the Elements and Seasons
And Who places the Rainbow Border on all Creation....

You, O Nameless One, we invoke:
Enter our hearts and speak through us
Lend to us the Vision of Unity
Teach us the Science of the Whole
Make known to us once again the Rite of the Mandala

Hear us, O Lord of the Center
Keeper of the Radiant Law
On our silence may Your voice ring clear

We are as Seeds:
Only You Who walk the Sky
Can show to us the Path
Our feet must follow in this Earth
Only You can heal and make us whole
Only through our submission to You
May we heal ourselves and become whole ~

In this way may we be led once again on the Path of Beauty

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
chocolatelover said:
Thanks NW... I'll do a google search and see what I can find.

Where and when did you first learn to do them? What benefit do you get?

I know you've told me this before so I hope you don't mind indulging my short memory again.

I'ld like to hear the instruction... what do you mean by 'the questions can be many'... the questions asked when making the mandala? is that what you mean?

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

chocolate, thanks for taking interest.... questions... well, they will come... i'm posting the instructions over the next several days.... i'd prefer that questions were held til after i have posted regarding Actualization, simply to not impede progress, or complicate and confuse... thanks for understanding

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
nowheretorun said:
</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
chocolatelover said:
Thanks NW... I'll do a google search and see what I can find.

Where and when did you first learn to do them? What benefit do you get?

I know you've told me this before so I hope you don't mind indulging my short memory again.

I'ld like to hear the instruction... what do you mean by 'the questions can be many'... the questions asked when making the mandala? is that what you mean?

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

chocolate, thanks for taking interest.... questions... well, they will come... i'm posting the instructions over the next several days.... i'd prefer that questions were held til after i have posted regarding Actualization, simply to not impede progress, or complicate and confuse... thanks for understanding

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">



bump

Do not imagine, think, analyze, meditate, act; Keep the mind in its natural state.

Tilopa

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tilopa

Subdue oneself and recover the ritual disposition.

Confucius

Purification

Purification may take many forms and has many degrees of intensity Of primary concern is the realization of its' necessity. If the human organism is compared to a highly refined tuning and receiving set, purification may be regarded as a cleaning of the basic parts so that there is no static between internal organs blocking reception from afar.

This often means a complete cleansing and purging of the body: at the very least, no intake of toxic elements, in some cases not even of solid food, or even liquids for a given period of time.

Purifactory fasting initially gives an awareness of the body and what we assume to be its demands; and secondly, because the consciousness is not clogged with the body's demands, it affords an opportunity to come to a more direct contact with the spiritual forces.

It is the tradition of the North American Indians, for instance, to fast for three or four days prior to an important event---- including the creation of a sandpainting. As the Indians are aware, fasting of any prolonged form is extrememly conducive to visions, and often accompanied by prayer.

This is why purification is such a necessary aspect of the vision quest of the Native Americans. Purification has the further effect of stimulating the senses so that they will be more receptive during the ritual process.

source: Mandala, Jose and Miriam Arguelles, Shambala Publications, Inc., Boulder Colorado

Be still, O my heart, be still and know God

Before enlightenment,
chopping wood and carrying water;

After enlightenment,
chopping wood and carrying water
Zen Proverb

God I am one in Nature .... Nature I am one in God

Om Mani Padme Hum Hri

Centering

Closely related to the function of purifying the mind and body is centering or meditation. It is a con-centration -- making con-centric -- of the organism's outflowing energies by turning them inward and focusing them through a central point.

In this way the biophysic energies are literally recycled. Any activity which achieves this effect is a form of centering -- this is often true of handicrafts: ceramics, carving, beadwork, weaving, and painting. The weavers fingers and the potter's hands are moved by a vision emanating from the still point within, and the final craft is but a manifested form of the energies radiating from that still point to the mind, the eyes, and the fingers of the craftsman.

Often a seated position -- either on a chair or in a variant of the lotus posture of the Yogis, is considered a necessary prerequisite for centering. It should be done in a quiet room or in a natural setting. The process of centering involves a slow dropping away of cares and concerns by trying to focus and hold the consciousness steady. Concentration devices are often introduced to help in the process. Such devices may include a silently repeated mantram: Om Mani Hum Hri.

Visual Concentrative images may be a simple sun or flower depicted in the minds' eye, or a more complex linear construct such as a yantra.



Another aid is the labyrinth, effectively drawing the mind to its central source.

These techniques may take the mind directly into a trance-like state of great fluidity and receptivity; this is the essence of the center: flowing, non-identified, serene, and blissfull.

The basic task of centering is to realize the mind in its natural, "uncreated" state -- without form or identification -- and actualize it beyond the so-called meditational period.

source: Mandala, Jose and Miriam Arguelles, Shambala Publishing, Inc., Boulder Colorado

Orientation

Centering naturally creates a coherent and organized field-pattern. The process of creating and and realizing this field-pattern is called "orientation." Orientation requires a central position. To witness the rising sun necessitates a point of consciousness which defines itself by the rising sun. From this point the other cardinal points are then defined -- East, South, West, and North. This act consecrates.

To consecrate is to make sacred, to set apart in the sense of devoting something. The territory of the actual Mandala -- whether on the ground, on paper or canvas -- is the space on, in and through which the offering and devotion take place.

In many rituals of the American Indians, the ground on which any conscious act is to occur is consecrated by raising the Sacred Pipe to the six directions (in addition North, South, East, West, above, and below), and invoking the spirits of these directions:

O our Father, the Sky, hear us and make us strong
O our Mother, the Earth, hear us and give us support
O Spirit of the East, send us your Wisdom
O Spirit of the South, may we tread your Path of Life
O Spirit of the West, may we be always ready for the Long Journey
O Spirit of the North, purify us with your Cleansing Winds

Orientation may be enacted by dancing as well. In the Tibetan Yoga of Non-Ego, a Dance and Chant of the Five Directions accomplishes the orientation ceremony.

source: Mandala, Jose and Miriam Arguelles, Shambala Publications, Inc. Boulder, Colorado