Jewish Publication Society Tanakh (1917)

excellent contribution SE : ) thank you... of course, my inner mirror is shouting : YOU ONLY AGREE BECAUSE IT SUPPORTS YOUR OWN OPINION, NOWHERETORUN...

that is true... i am anti violence.... but i will defend if need be....

<blockquote>
NW: of course, my inner mirror is shouting : YOU ONLY AGREE BECAUSE IT SUPPORTS YOUR OWN OPINION...

lol! Self-examination is never easy but it is good to question ourselves.

Anyway, I don't think it's likely to happen anytime soon but if we all took care of our inner demons, the world would probably be a much nicer place for everyone. As it is, we have to deal with our own demons and the behavior of others who haven't dealt with theirs. We've also just talked ourselves all the way back around to the shadow.

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nowheretorun said:
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SeptemberMorn said:
You're so desperately looking hither and yon while the truth is staring you in the face.

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this statement speaks for itself imho .. no comment..

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Darrel, I wasn't "making fun" nor "ridiculing you". I'm sorry if that's the way you took my comment.

From my perspective, it just seems that you take this road or that in your quest for the truth. Of course, being grounded in my faith and what *I* believe to be the truth, I can't understand why, when you're looking right at it, you don't recognize it. Of course, you're not looking at it with my eyes, you're looking at it through yours and that makes all the difference. It just gets frustrating for me. (I'm not sure if that made sense to you. )

Regardless of what you think of me or what you think I think of you, I really do care. That's why sometimes it's damn near impossible to keep my mouth shut. ... sigh ... I'm sorry.

perhaps, September, just perhaps, some of us may come here to SHARE in their belief and arent neccessarily looking for negative opinionation or judgments...

you may say your statement was offered in kindness and hopeful generosity, however, i am familiar with your methods of 'teaching', which, imho, are far below any education standard i can imagine...

so, if you wouldn't mind terribly, either support, or ignore... as i also have learned to do...

that imo, would be very helpful to many of us here at PC...

and, yes... i am still examining your statement.....

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it's damn near impossible to keep my mouth shut. ... sigh ... I'm sorry.

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please do not swear in my thread September...

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sanityseeker said:
We needn't nor should we be colour blind.... we need to appreciate all colours of the rainbow and all stars of the universe as equal. We need to embrace difference rather than oppress to claim dominance. We need to merge interests and learn from one another.

There is so much to be learned about diversity. We need not homoginize and blend.... the greyness in the world is part of what has people so depressed. Our distinctions are fading.

Transcendance.... is always an option for the individual who is prepared to do the work..... walking in spirit while bound by flesh. In spirit we can always transcend and see the world through sacred eyes. Transfering that transcendant knowledge is the harder work because we once again required the will of the people to give up some power. Power is more attractive to some than transcendant peace and universal love.

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sorry i am slow sanity seeker... i see your point... celebrating ones own individual roots... the contributions of ones own culture towards global peace and happines... a spiritual diversity that not competes, but instead compliments all...

good thoughts... thank you... : ) transcendent....

..... and even more than celebrting one's own roots but remaining grounded and identified to them. We were all created equal but different for a reason one would presume. I believe it is to teach us about balance and harmony on the journey to knowing and connecting with devine, supernatural love. Supernatural because it seems to take supernatural, devine intervention to open people's heart to the idea that we are equal to our neighbour no matter how unattractive or contrary they may be to our way of seeing and being in the world.

I'm glad you and spiritual emergency liked the words that were given to me to share. I claim no ownership in them. I too am blessed to write them when they flow from my heart to yours. Inspired by your musings to touch with mine and blossom in new ways to edify.... one always hopes.....

Be well....

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sanityseeker said:
..... and even more than celebrting one's own roots but remaining grounded and identified to them. We were all created equal but different for a reason one would presume. I believe it is to teach us about balance and harmony on the journey to knowing and connecting with devine, supernatural love. Supernatural because it seems to take supernatural, devine intervention to open people's heart to the idea that we are equal to our neighbour no matter how unattractive or contrary they may be to our way of seeing and being in the world.

I'm glad you and spiritual emergency liked the words that were given to me to share. I claim no ownership in them. I too am blessed to write them when they flow from my heart to yours. Inspired by your musings to touch with mine and blossom in new ways to edify.... one always hopes.....

Be well....

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I totally agree with you
could not have said it better

Nowheretorun said
"sorry i am slow sanity seeker... i see your point... celebrating ones own individual roots... the contributions of ones own culture towards global peace and happines... a spiritual diversity that not competes, but instead compliments all...

good thoughts... thank you... : ) transcendent.... "

very well said
global peace and happiness

very good thoughts

the sheep

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A sharesies...

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The whole cosmos, including you and me, our minds and hearts: an infinite series of curves closing in on themselves. This is the shape of the universe. It is the reality we find as we discover we are not contained by our skins. This is the rarified air, the vision of distant peaks. It is the deep intimation of our sacred knowing. Here is an amazing truth we’ve hidden from ourselves, but can know.

At such a moment we find the yet larger realities of our lives. From these moments of the dark we all experience, we can turn again, finding, knowing we are fully part of the cosmos, birthed out, precious and unique, children of the universe itself. We are all connected, we all have the same family name. Here, in this larger discovery found only from our knowing the abyss, is the perspective that gives us moral choice. Here beyond the celestial spheres and our own skulls, we find ourselves, and what we can be when knowing both in part and from the whole.

...

This is what we can find in these darkest moments when we see we are just things in a field of things. Here, in fact, lies our salvation. We climb that mountain; we see it in part, and quickly we forget as we pass around the edge. But, we come back, and again we glimpse it. And even though we will forget again, we have been forever gifted by that dark knowing; and will continue to be gifted with that vision until we the most transient of all, will by our constant witnessing, simply our witnessing, reveal the saving knowing that is our heritage from before the creation of the heavens themselves.

And it is simply this: We have the eyes of God. We can know ourselves in our transience, and we can know the whole that informs each part. We, the most transient things of all, can see the holy, can see the holy in all the things of the world.

May we all come out of these dark times, to see with those eyes. The peace of the world, the salvation of the cosmos, lies in the balance. So, don’t stop. Keep on the path, continue ahead, up that mountain, until it and you each disappears, and in that rarified air find your true self, the one that is our heritage, our birthright, the one that is the hope of the world.

Source: The Abyss: Melancholy &amp; Spirituality


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See also: The Beauty in the Darkness

how i love discussing the shadow SE.... how i once didnt seem to have a shadow side.. then it began growing, and growing, and growing.... til i barely had enuf sanity to function....

but function i did.. i worked on the shadow soul til it yielded its secrets... i learned how the shadow self is me.... and i am the shadow self... at this point in my life i do not think of myself as a shadow reflection.. but i am fully aware of its existence within me.... it always will be i think...

i learned how to make friends of the shadow... how to reverse its role in my life.. where it formerly was my master, now it is my tool... for use at will and as needed...

i identified the source of the shadow after some time and work... i recognize its originating place... i understand the shadow is not the enemy.. but that which created it is....

for me.. it is the pain and suffering of billions of people that feeds my shadow.... there seems to be no quick end in sight, save a blast from a meteor or some such...

until then.. the lighter, happier side of my inner self calls to me... provides me with duty and moral obligation and i find by heeding those calls and demands, that my soul lives a more natural feeling life....

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SeptemberMorn said:
You're so desperately looking hither and yon while the truth is staring you in the face.

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still fascinated by this statement... it could be the head slapping figure, or the blue face shaking its head... it could be the statement 'the truth is staring YOU in the face' ...

it might be the 'desperately looking' statement... i dont feel desperate... i feel time is short however and thus should be used wisely...

it could be the 'hither and yon' part of the statement that so grasps me... hither and yon.. i had to repeat it to myself to make sure its pure essence floated no my dream stated mind....

yes... i do believe wandering and wondering have been some of the most enjoyable days of my life... very painful at times to be sure in the past... and now.... pure beauty wherever i go....

i wish i could share it with all of you... i'm saddened to think that some may read these words and feel as if i am attempting self-elevation in front of your eyes....

nothing could be further than the truth... in these pages i have grown... i love to grow... dont you all?

i travel my own path, ive enjoyed the journey thoroughly.. and its not over.... God tells me each day there is more to see more to know... it is this reward that validates my personal journey.. this feeling of love and kindness Gods' good lessons have shown me...

i may not always be a perfect man... but can you blame me for trying? all i wanted was a little more peace and happiness...

what i have learned in my path is available to anyone and everyone.. and everyone can transcend in my view... no one of us is better... we are all only at different levels of growth....

I think it's very important to remember that when quoting Scripture, whether from Tanakh Talmud or OT/NT, that you cannot take what you read "out of context." When you read secular writings it's very easy to pick them apart to try and find out what the author meant and was suggesting etc. Religious texts do not lend themselves that way for when you are trying to find out the true meaning.

There is only one (1) interpretation: this is when it was written (the times then), to whom it was written, and why it was written.

There are countless other ways to use Scripture, there are (2) applications and (3) implications, but if you are seeking the truth about what it is saying, you need to stick with the interpretation.

May I share the background (more than I did before) of the Book of Jeremiah?

Jeremiah is the second book of the Latter Prophets. It includes both his biography and prophecies. He lived during the 7th and 6th centuries B.C.E. ( Before the Common Era.) He had a scribe named Baruch and since he was so fortunate, we have alot of information about him. Mainly his oracles are well noted because he incurred the wrath of the king.

When he gave King Jehoiakim (pronounced Ja hoe' a kim ) the scroll of his oracles denouncing the king for his trangressions, the king destroyed the scroll. Jeremiah dictated it again, and added more to it.

Jeremiah lived most of his life in Jerusalem, prophesying over 4 decades. His political message to the Jews was also a moral one: submit to Babylonian rule and learn from your captivity. It wasn't a popular message. His religious message was not accepted well either, because it said that the people, their leaders, (including their spiritual leaders) were wicked, and that all (even the other prophets) were guilty of lying and hypocrisy. He lived long enough to see most of the people of Judah exiled to Babylonia (by God due to their wickedness.) (Ezekiel was one of those taken in captivity, and continued as a prophet continuing to denounce Judah and Jerusalem for their wickedness.)

It was because the people had strayed from the worship of God, that HE (God) put them into captivity.

I think some of the comments made have strayed from the real meaning of the text. And for those seeking, it does declare the same truth today, an application, it's said simply: worship God or find condemnation (and captivity) for your wickedness.



(Some comments resulted from "Essential Judaism" by G Robinson.)

Wow.... spiritual emergency.... I love how you share information that stretching my understanding and expands my knowledge in all sorts of interesting and helpful ways. I don't always have time to study what you post but when I do I am always blessed.

I really appreciate the time you give to sharing with us the gems of your own understandings and knowledge. May you be equally blessed for your kindness to us. You and Nowhere make a wonderful team of co-teachers and co-travellers. You guys make it all so much fun and interesting to explore different ways of looking at the same mysteries of the universe we all seek to personally, intimately know and understand.

I am pretty well versed in Biblical scripture. I was trained and served as a Christian missionary in Eastern Europe and the Middle East among other places. There is never a shortage of places for me to go to discuss scripture and theology and I really value the communion and service with other mainstream Christians. What I value about you and Nowhere and others who come here to share other perspectives is how the discussions always enhance my existing knowledge and understanding. Always stretch me to want to know what you know. Learn what you've learned. I don't face any conflicts but rather just a hunger to learn and experience as much about spirit and Creator and the ways of spirit as is my previlege to learn. All in my quest for balance and harmony.... to me the greatest gifts of all on the journey to devine love.

Up till now my studies and experiences have come from the Big 3 --Christianity, Judaism and Islam. And of course my own culture's spiritual ways. I've had little exposure to eastern religions or to the world of psychology. Much of what you and nowhere have been sharing these past weeks is very new to me. It's been a steep learning curve for the most part but most enjoyable. Its been wonderful to make the links to and expand what the Big 3 teach me.

You and Nowhere have helping me open up to see more and more, again and again.... the common threads that bind us. No matter which direction one looks the same 'truth' is revealed. Walk in Love, Walk in Beauty. Be a witness and a vessel of devine love. Be of spirit and of flesh but always be a messanger of peace and salvation. Be one with the universe.

Thank you Nowhere for continue to press on amid the distractions to share your spiritual journey with us. To allow us to walk with you and grow with you. You are a great blessing to the world. May your enthusiasm never wane.

Thank you too Muffy for your kind words about what I had to contribute to the discussion. I have seen how generously you reach out to people and how lovingly you give your support to everyone. You are a wonderful example of beauty.

I thought this was worth repeating....

May we all come out of these dark times, to see with those eyes. The peace of the world, the salvation of the cosmos, lies in the balance. So, don’t stop. Keep on the path, continue ahead, up that mountain, until it and you each disappears, and in that rarified air find your true self, the one that is our heritage, our birthright, the one that is the hope of the world.

Reminds me that the journey never ends until it is time to return to spirit form beyond this world and beyond time and space. Reminds me too that we are all different and that as our 'true self' we can fullfill our journey but without having found our true, authentic self we live but a fraction of our potential... get only a glimpse of the devine hope available to each of us and for all of us. Individually and collectively in unity of spirit.

May not be the message the writer intended but that's the beauty of pure truth.... it speaks through many verses to reach the heart and mind of each person who is seeking pure understanding and peace. I also believe that I walk with devine protection from any harm if messages come to me that are ill-intended. It allows me to walk freely into areas that are foreign to me. Always clocked in devine love. The purity of the message met me where I was at and I was blessed.

Many thanks to all......... for allowing me to ramble some here.

Appreciate the freedom to share and dialogue with other open and adventurous seekers.

<blockquote>
Sky: I think it's very important to remember that when quoting Scripture, whether from Tanakh Talmud or OT/NT, that you cannot take what you read "out of context." When you read secular writings it's very easy to pick them apart to try and find out what the author meant and was suggesting etc. Religious texts do not lend themselves that way for when you are trying to find out the true meaning.

There is only one (1) interpretation: this is when it was written (the times then), to whom it was written, and why it was written.

You said something the other day Sky that caught my eye. At the time, I thought you might be referring to the Bible but now I'm not so sure. What you'd said was: This is why studying history is so important. But not the history of the current school books, unfortunately, because they have been rewritten and have "changed" history.

Few books have been more heavily edited than the bible; it's part and parcel of one of the reasons I appreciate recovered texts such as those found in the Nag Hammadi library, i.e., The Sophia of Jesus Christ. The Gnostics offer a somewhat different interpretation of biblical stories. Their belief is that there were two gods: an egocentric bully who believed he was the be-all-end-all creator of the universe, and the true God. According to Gnostic belief, the snake that appeared in the Garden of Eden and encouraged Eve to eat the apple from the Tree of Knowledge was not Satan -- it was God. By eating the apple, Adam and Eve discovered the knowledge that there was a lesser god and a greater God. I like that interpretation because it corresponds with Jungian lines of there being a lesser ego (which often thinks it is the be-all-end-all of the universe) and the Self.

And not too long ago I came across a reference that The Book of Revelations was, in fact, John's account of his kundalini awakening. I liked that one too because it corresponds with my own understanding of The Inner Apocalypse.

Of course, I come at all this from a somewhat different approach... the first is my awareness that many people have religious / spiritual experiences and many of them have written their own stories down -- their own personal bibles, so to speak. I'm also aware that ego contamination is a common component of such experiences, which mostly can't be shared anyway because most people don't speak the non-linearity of that language... although I've run across a few "schizophrenics" who speak it remarkably well.

Clearly, interpretation can drastically change the intent of the message. Still, it certainly is a difficult challenge. Who can we trust, who can we listen to, which interpretation is the correct one? Some people seek out priests to give them their answers; in the East, one might seek out a guru. It would seem that many of us feel we do not have the answers, but we certainly have the questions. In the end, we each have to find our own answers in our own way.

<blockquote>
sanityseeker: Wow.... spiritual emergency.... I love how you share information that stretching my understanding and expands my knowledge in all sorts of interesting and helpful ways. I don't always have time to study what you post but when I do I am always blessed.

And thank you too, sanity seeker. As noted above, I certainly am seeking my own answers. Sometimes I find it helpful to converse with others in these matters, sometimes I prefer to go into Silence to digest and ponder. I'm happy to share what I've found with others although I recognize it won't appeal to everyone. For those who find the info useful, they can pick it up and take it with them. And if they don't, they can leave it where they found it.

Up till now my studies and experiences have come from the Big 3 --Christianity, Judaism and Islam. And of course my own culture's spiritual ways. I've had little exposure to eastern religions or to the world of psychology. Much of what you and nowhere have been sharing these past weeks is very new to me. It's been a steep learning curve for the most part but most enjoyable. Its been wonderful to make the links to and expand what the Big 3 teach me.

And I've been learning where I can from Hinduism, Buddhism, Gnosticism, Sufism, Shamanism, Mysticism and a few other isms. But as you earlier noted, also trying to stay grounded. For me, that groundedness comes in the reality of everyday living. Also, like you, I enjoy the opportunity to delve into these kind of conversations when I run across the occasional kindred spirit.

~ Namaste

PS: Here's a link you'll likely enjoy sanityseeker: Broken Heart &amp; Transcendence

Music of the Hour: Awakening by the Gate of Sorrow

Well, in this respect, the writings are well documented historically as to what the actual events were, and the true interpretation.

I'm sorry you have questions still.

<blockquote>
Sky: in this respect, the writings are well documented historically as to what the actual events were...

Yes, as is the evidence that those writings were extensively edited.

I'm sorry you have questions still.

A bit of a funny story for you...

My own experience was given two labels by those who witnessed it. The first was enlightened; the second was schizophrenic. Because I didn't know how I was supposed to Be either of those things, I went searching for some answers. The internet was my primary tool and what I was looking for were people who self-identified as being either "enlightened" or "schizophrenic".

It's now several years later and what I've discovered is I prefer the company of "schizophrenics" over "the enlightened ones". Here's why: The enlightened ones think they have it all figured out and this has closed them down so that they're no longer open to learning anything. They're often rigid, dogmatic, arrogant, and in spite of their claims to the contrary, full of ego inflation and grandiosity. The schizophrenics on the other hand (or at least the ones I like to hang with), know that they're broken, they know that they're lacking, they know they don't have all the answers, so they're actively seeking. And if you catch them at the right time, they really don't have any egos because whatever sense of identity they did have has been absolutely shattered by Life (or God, depending on preference).

I like that too. That I've learned more from schizophrenics about the bigger questions than I have from those who insist that they have the answers. It's my path and I'm going to keep on walking it.

~ Namaste

See also: How to Produce an Acute Schizophrenic Break

<center>Contrary to popular misunderstanding the term "schizophrenia" does not refer to multiple personality syndrome.
The Greek etymology of the word actually means "broken soul" or "broken heart".

-- Michael O'Callaghan

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Ode XI
My heart was cloven and there appeared a flower,
and grace sprang up
and fruit from the Lord,

for the highest one split me with his holy spirit,
exposed my love for him
and filled me with his love.

His splitting of my heart was my salvation
and I followed the way of his peace,
the way of truth.

From the beginning to the end
I received his knowledge.

and sat on the rock of truth
where he placed me.

Speaking waters came near my lip
from the vast fountain of the Lord,

and I drank and was drunk
with the living water that never dies,
and my drunkeness gave me knowledge.

I threw off vanity,
turned to my God
and his bounty made me rich.

I threw off the madness of the earth,
I stripped it from me and cast it away,

and the Lord renewed me in his raiment
and held me in his light.

From above he gave me uncorrupt ease
and I was like land deep and happy in its orchards,
and the Lord was sun on the face of the land.

My eyes were clear,
dew was on my face.

and my nostrils enjoyed
the aroma of the Lord.

He took me to Paradise
where I knew Joy
and worshipped his glory.

Blessed are they
planted in your land,
in Paradise,
who grow in the growth of your trees
and change from gloom to light.

Your Servants are lovely.
They do good,
they abjure evil and turn to your pleasantness.

They are free of the bitterness of trees
ancient in their land.

You are everywhere,
always before your servants.

There is much space in Paradise
but no wasteland,
All is fruit.

The Odes of Soloman</center>

Music of the Hour: Flatlands</center>

i had intended to add more to the thread... the funniest thing happened on the way to the forums...

thanks to each of you for the contributions.. Sanity Seeker, Spiritual Emergency, Ibme.... much appreciated... well formulated and heart be true replies.... can never say how much you are appreciated...

Sky, SeptemberMorn... we learn from the least expected sources sometimes... thank you....

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NW: we learn from the least expected sources sometimes...

I enjoyed the thread too, NW. I like the way it meanders. Meantime, I've been actively learning for a few years now. One of the rules of thumb I've developed in that time is: Be open to learning from everyone, follow no-one. That lesson came as a direct result of encountering a number of people who self-identified as "enlightened" -- there was the "Master" who expounded at length about his experiences in the far East but would shame any of his followers into silence if they attempted to speak of their own growth-producing experiences; the "Guru" whose name became associated with pedophilia; the "Genius" who preached that women could never reach such a state and men could only do so if they stripped every vestige of that which could be deemed "feminine" from their lives. Of course every religion, every path, has such people -- there is no religion that can claim to be exempt. Every light will cast a shadow.

Overall, what those experiences taught me was that everyone is a human being first and human beings are not perfect -- we only like to think we are. The second was that any time we think we've got all the answers... we should check ourselves. I expect that I'll still be asking questions on my deathbed and may not find my answers until I've passed out of this world.

Meantime, another favorite rule I've picked up along the way is...

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There are no enlightened people, there is only enlightened activity.

Source: The Guru's Trap


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forever i will be grateful for your wisdoms SE... i didnt wish to comment regarding your comments... i could never say what each of you has said so eloquently... one of my favorite parts of the thread is Ode XI...

muffy said:

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global peace and happiness

very good thoughts

the sheep

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NW: one of my favorite parts of the thread is Ode XI...

The music is always my favorite part.

hmmm... I used to be married to a schizophrenic... your description sure doesn't fit him!

Maybe he was "broken" but he enjoyed "breaking" others all too well. Evil and twisted if you ask me.

<blockquote>
September Morn: hmmm... I used to be married to a schizophrenic... your description sure doesn't fit him!

Maybe he was "broken" but he enjoyed "breaking" others all too well. Evil and twisted if you ask me.

Well, September Morn. Thank you for your supportive comment. I know you're compelled to state it because you "care" so very, very much and it's not about you. It's not about you, at all.

As for me, some of the most beautiful people I've ever met were schizophrenics. Perhaps I simply got lucky but I remain grateful that they came into my life.

To each their own.

~ Namaste.

See also: Dedication