non-existance

I sometimes wonder if I do indeed exist.

That is a very interesting question. I have wondered the same thing, like what if we are characters in somebody's dream or something. But if so, then what an elaborate dream it is. Or maybe we are characters in our own dream, but then we must exist, right?

I have had more issues about whether I have any right to exist. Maybe I'm taking up space that would be better used by someone else. And I've been pretty susceptible to buying into it if anyone implies that I don't have any business being there. My insurance company said that I didn't exist once, and I just concluded that they probably knew about that as well as I did, so maybe I don't exist.


<font color=green>"Loneliness does not come from having no people about one, but from being unable to communicate the things that seem important to oneself, or from holding certain views which others find inadmissible" Carl Jung</font color=green>

{{{{{{{{{{Carrie}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

That is all that I do. I hope that you are one of the people that "lives" as well.

Like Wendy said, I think I take up space that could be better used. Things go on around me, I make no major impact on anyone's life really and sometimes I just step back and watch to see if anyone notices I'm missing.........rarely do they.

I know that you DO matter, very much so. I miss you when you aren't around, as does everyone else here. I hope you feel the same way about yourself.

Mary Alice

I was thinking about friendships. You see I don't have any. It is not that people don't want to be around me. One co-worker said "who could not like carrie?" So it isn't that I am unpleasant to be around but when I am not around people don't think of me. It isn't that I haven't tried to make friends with people. I have called them on occassion and asked them to do things with me. I ask co-workers to go out for a drink after work. And we have gone. We had a good time...at least the way they talk about it afterward it sounds like they had a good time. So why is it that I am not remembered when I am not in their presence as a person who may like to hang out? Am I too calm and comforting (their discription not mine) that I leave no impression so they don't think to ask me to go do things? I don't know. Maybe I should have a major freak out at work. But that doesn't work either. I had a gal help me to the hospital and she says I am one of her only friends but we never talk, we never call one another. It is weird. Is it me? Do I put up a wall of some sort? I don't get it.

Perhaps it is because I rarely talk about myself. Most of what is me right now is this intensive work on getting better. I have been so imbroiled in mental illness that it seems to me it would get rather boring and tedius for them to have to listen too because it is the same whining about the same thing over and over again so I don't talk about it. It has nothing to do with lack of self esteem. I used to think that I was a useless lump but now I feel good about myself, proud of the things I have accomplished, proud of the kids I have raised and so forth. But I don't talk about that too much because it is a private thing. The pride I have is for me alone because only I can be affected by it in a good way. I try to share my troubles and tribulations but I never ask for advice because no ones advice can be as good as my own and perhaps my therapist's though I am beginning to think that his advice comes in second to mine. Am I too big? I mean, is my belief that I can take care of anything eventually and if I muck it up it isn't the end of the world because everything is a process, something that people just don't connect with? Perhaps they need to be needed and quite frankly I don't need them to help me with anything...not on a personal level. Perhaps that is the problem. I just don't need them to help me fix anything. I don't need them to care for me. I just need them to be around and be themselves. They don't have to prove anything to me I just sit back and watch who they are and enjoy being with them flaws and all, without expectations. And because of this they don't feel the pull to call me, they don't have the urge to invite me along because there is no need.
Carrie

Carrie,

Have I told you that you are awesome? I am just so impressed with you. The way you have developed your confidence and self-esteem and understanding of the way things are, and the way you can step back and look at a problem calmly even when it really bothers you, ...

I wonder if you are maybe afraid to talk to your friends on a more personal level because it's hard to know when to stop before it gets to be too much? I know that I've been wanting for people to understand everything about me, and at the same time I've been afraid of them knowing too much. The feeling of intimacy between friends seems to come from being able to mutually talk about some personal feelings and stuff like that, but putting it out there is taking a risk. It is hard to know how much to share, and who to share it with.

Wendy

<font color=green>"Loneliness does not come from having no people about one, but from being unable to communicate the things that seem important to oneself, or from holding certain views which others find inadmissible" Carl Jung</font color=green>

Rapunzel:
That is a major question "How much is too much." Once started how does one stop? I mean everything is so connected. If I discussed my major challenge right now which is stopping with the SI then people may want to know why I do it, which leads into a whole can of worms involving rape, abandonment and physical abuse. Yet a skimmed down answer to the question of "why?" doesn't even come close to explaining the depth of the problem. It isn't shame about what happened to me that keeps me from opening up about myself. I have gotten past that and could talk about it quite easily. The problem is that I am worried about how it will affect them. I understand the need to have a certain amount of...innocence as it were, about the reality of just how close mental illness lies to everyone. So how does one gauge how much is enough? How much honesty will cause them to back up behind their protective guaze? If I can be crazy then anyone at the store could just as easily become so. Perhaps I should just be patient and wait until this phase of my life is over. I have you all and I have my group. Perhaps the challenge is for me to start looking for a new focus so that I can more easily engage people who are not connected with the world of mental illness and the process of healing. But aren't they all healing from one thing or another?

Ozzie:
Have you ever studied the Enneagram? According that psychological tool I would be classified as an "Observer" personality. My way of interacting with people is that I take everything in until my perverbial bucket is full at which time I have to get the heck out of there so that I can go home by myself and pull each interaction out of the bucket and decide what I feel about it. I emotionally live my relationships alone in my room far away from the people I am interacting with. This is why they see me as calm and comforting and "with it". I have no emotions while I am around them. How does a person connect with someone else if there is no emotion to connect to? If I am in a situation too long and can't get out when I need to I become overwhelmed and have no idea how to deal with the emotions that are flooding my body because if I am not alone I can't take things out one at a time and isolate them so that the impact is not so...um...confused? Then my response is not always appropriate to the situation.

I am getting better at taking the emotions that I have sorted out at home and describing them to my coworkers when I am at my job. Such as "today I feel cranky because such and such happened." But they don't see me behave in a cranky manner. I am just like I always am. This must be confusing to them.

As far as humor and goofiness goes. Those who are close to me think that I am funny. But my humor is more of a dry wit that often goes over my co-workers heads (or around them). I loved this one gal who worked with us during the holiday season. She was always spot on with my jokes and could pick up the thread and carry it on. I love that. Oh I like it when they just understand but when they can carry it forward it just tickles me pink. My daughter is great at it and my son is learning. Hubby of course has always known and that is probably why we have stayed together for so long. One must never leave the person who laughs at one's jokes.
Carrie

Carrie,

I know exactly what you mean with the humor! It is because I love dry wit that I love the Brits. They're great at it. I can only make those kind of comments around my family and my fiance....it completely goes over the heads of most people. *sigh*

Hooray odd senses of humor!

some of it's magic
some of it's tragic
but i had a good life all the way......
~jimmy buffett

I would have to agree with you there. Red Dwarf, Fawlty Towers, Monty Python, and Black Adder are my favorites.
Carrie

I love Monty Python. LOVE them. I am so sad that Graham Chapman is no longer with us - he was absolutely brilliant. Let's see, what are some of my favorite MP skits....

The Importance of Not Being Seen
The Exploding Blue Danube
The Society for Putting Things On Top of Other Things
Anger and Abuse
Parrot Shop
Olympic Hide and Seek
Twit of the Year Contest
The Ministry of Silly Walks.....

CUT! That's just too silly. Get on with it!


some of it's magic
some of it's tragic
but i had a good life all the way......
~jimmy buffett

I think that the skit that has had the longest lasting affect on me is a tie between ministry of silly walks and the lumberjack song. Ha ha.

My favorite movie of theirs is Life of Bryan unfortunately I do not own it yet. We have Monty Python and the Holy Grail. My son can practically recite the whole movie. It is just too funny.
Carrie

Carrie,

SI is usually too much for most people to understand and deal with. You would probably be better to stick with talking about that here and at your support group. With people like co-workers, maybe it would be better to let them open up first and when you have a feel for the kinds of things they talk about, then share things that are similar. Sometimes it seems like talking about problems is what makes people close. I remember hearing people talk to each other about their problems (boyfriends, parents, what to wear, etc.) and wishing that I had some similar problems so that they would talk to me too. That was when I was a teenager.

Humor is great! Isn't it nice when you find people who appreciate your sense of humor. Most people don't get mine either.

Wendy

<font color=green>"Loneliness does not come from having no people about one, but from being unable to communicate the things that seem important to oneself, or from holding certain views which others find inadmissible" Carl Jung</font color=green>

I know this. And this is the problem. So much of who I am is wrapped up in this world of mental illness. All the real challenges of my life is trying to untangle from this insanity that resides in my head. All the other little annoyances are shaded by the affect of my psychological garbage. It is impossible to make a connection with someone when the essence of me must be kept a secret because it is too disturbing to them. You see I can talk to them about how upset I am about the fact that I got a disconnect notice from the light company, but it is a kind of a lie because that is not what is worrying me the most. It is my reaction to that disconnect notice that scares me and is what I need to talk about but can't talk about because it is too...unfathomable. Even my husband who has lived with this for so long and has heard all I have to say still doesn't understand and there is still a lack of connection between us because of it. We connect on other levels but I am still alone when it comes to the things that disturb me the most. Shoot, I lost the thread of where I was going with this...oh yeah I can make small talk but it is just fluff and I remain seperate because I don't care about that stuff because it doesn't matter. Menstrual cramps and pissy boyfriends are nothing when you have heard voices of people who don't exist and seen yourself dead a million times. But who am I kidding? I don't connect with anyone in group either so it is stupid of me to whine about not being able to connect to "norms" because they don't understand. Ha ha. It is just one dopey mess. I will get it cleaned up eventually.
Carrie

Carrie,

Oh wow...when I read what you wrote about friendships, it was like you were writing about me. I get along great with people, and when I'm around, people are happy to see me. But I am constantly being overlooked, just the way you said...I'm not remembered when I'm not in their presence. The perfect example is, the little group of friends that I have always does something for everyone's birthday, usually taking the person out to dinner. They do this for everyone but me...they've never once done anything for my birthday. I know they care about me, but it just never occurs to them that I might want someone to do something nice like that.

Maybe I'm remembering wrong, but I seem to recall that you talked once of being neglected or ignored a lot when you were growing up, which is just how things were for me. Sometimes I wonder, that when we don't get a certain kind of attention when we are very small, if that leaves us with a lack of expectation that we will ever get that kind of attention. And in life, it is very common that we get what we expect. I've tried to think a lot about what I do differently than other people who are not overlooked, but I really do think it's a very subtle thing...like people can sense that I'm so used to not being thought of, they think I don't care about it.

I also sometimes wonder if it comes down to that issue of non-existance. I often feel like there's no "me" in me...like an empty feeling. So, if I can't sense something inside myself, then how much of an impression could I possibly leave on other people?

Anyway, I'm not sure I will ever really learn how to change things, but it was interesting to read that someone else out there had the same experience.

*hugs*
mj