[Zenobia]

As I was plucking dandelions out of my lawn I got to thinking about my replies to a couple of posts that were of a more religious flavor. I am in a space right now that is filled with spiritual longing and exploration. This got me to thinking about others who have used their spiritual ideas to help in their healing. And it reminded me of times on the forum when people who used their religion as a sheild and offended other people. Religion is a hot topic. It has caused war throughout the world and right here on this forum from time to time. It is also a source of great healing and wellness.

My questions are:
1. How important is religion/spirituality to your healing process?
2. How can we bring these topics up in our responses and threads without offending other people...how can we maintain respect for one anothers ideas?
3. How can we tap into the healing aspect of spirituality while at the same time avoid the warring nature of religious difference?
4. Is it possible to do in a environment such as this?
5. Is it desireable to even try?

I know this probably should be posted on the general forum but...I guess I feel safe here. This is a smaller group and I have found understanding on a different level here. Anyway...just wanted your ideas on this.
Carrie

<font color=green>But the implicit and usually unconscious bargain we make with ourselves is that, yes, we want to be healed, we want to be made whole, we're willing to go some distance, but we're not willing to question the fundamental assumptions upon which our way of life has been built, both personally and societally.--Bill Plotkin, Soulcraft

[Rapunzel]

Thanks Carrie,

I wanted to talk about this too, and didnt quite feel safe on the general board. I guess some people keep up mainly with the higher volume boards, but I get overwhelmed and fall back to my particular niches, this one being my main niche. For one thing, there are not so many of us here to keep track of, and for another, we are all dealing with some of the same issues. Nothing wrong with the other boards and the rest of the members of this site, but when I'm frazzled or otherwise not able to keep up with everything, this is where you will find me.

The world these days seems to would like to pretend that religion does not exist, sweep it under the carpet, hide it, and ostracize people for whom spirituality is central to their lives. It didn't used to be that way. Yes, religion has been a factor in war and violence throughout the history of the earth, and that's not what we want, but the whole reason behind that is that it means so much to people, and not always in the same way. Spirituality is still important, and pretending that it does not exist is not the answer. We all need to recognize that our beliefs are not universally held by all, even though we may be very sure that the way we believe is right. That doesn't mean that everyone else is wrong. I believe that there is truth in all religions, maybe to a greater or lesser degree, but they all have something that I can learn from and I would rather look for that than jump all over the differences.

Religion and spirituality are also part of psychology and of healing. For more information on how these topics fit together, here is a page where you can find some links: <A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.tulsa.oklahoma.net/~jnichols/religion.html>http://www.tulsa.oklahoma.net/~jnichols/religion.html</A> In my Health Psychology class this semester it was taught that there are 3 (4) domains of health, which are: biological, mental/emotional/psychological, social, (and spiritual). That is how it is presented, with the fourth domain being optional. Yet it is there and should be there as it does make a difference even if some people are not comfortable with it. Is everyone always comfortable about the other domains of health either? Religion also came up in Personality Theory, as quite a few of the best known personality theorists had a lot to say about religion (see the links on that page above), and also in my Interviewing and Counseling class. One aspect of counseling is finding value, or meaning in life. For a lot of people that means religion or spirituality. Without value or meaning, what's the point of living?

To get to your questions:
<font color=green>1. How important is religion/spirituality to your healing process?</font color=green> Crucial! As I just said, without value or meaning (which to me does include spirituality), life is pointless. Why even bother to keep trying if there is no point?

<font color=green>2. How can we bring these topics up in our responses and threads without offending other people...how can we maintain respect for one anothers ideas?</font color=green> I tend to avoid bringing up these topics because I know that they can lead to tension and conflict. Also, since I'm LDS, and Mormons are known for being pushy about religion, I work that much harder not to look like I am trying to impose my beliefs on anyone, but I still would like to be open about my beliefs and would love to discuss them if any of you want to. Sometimes it is just easier to take that kind of discussion away from the public forums and keep it rather in PM's and chat, which tend to be a more intimate setting. When we share our beliefs on a public forum that can be read by anyone who has internet access, maybe we are opening ourselves up to potential attack, since there are people out there who just look for conflict. Casting your pearls before swine isn't your best move. Not that the members here are swine, but you never know who might be reading the forums. So we need to choose the appropriate setting and timing, and before sharing precious beliefs, be sure that we are able to withstand the potential of an attack. Another thing would be to present beliefs as just that - not proven facts that are necessarily universal. Say, "this is something that helps me," or "I believe that...", etc. Don't assume that everyone reading your belief shares it or will become convinced. Whenever you make a statement that may conflict with the other person's views, it will tend to be received best if you state it tentatively, making it clear that you are offering the idea but not trying to cram it down their throat.

<font color=green>3. How can we tap into the healing aspect of spirituality while at the same time avoid the warring nature of religious difference? </font color=green> We all need to respect each other's beliefs. We need to remember that someone isn't wrong just because our beliefs may not match up. If you find that you disagree with someone's position, if you feel that you need to say anything, again state your beliefs tentatively, making it clear that they are your beliefs. Recognize the difference between facts and opinions. If I say, "the sky is blue" most people won't argue because they can look out the window and see that the sky appears to be blue. But if we are talking about beliefs, we need to say "I believe that ..." or something along those lines, because people might not accept the belief, but they can't really argue with the fact that it is what you believe. Sometimes we have to agree to disagree.

<font color=green>4. Is it possible to do in a environment such as this?</font color=green> I think so.

<font color=green>5. Is it desireable to even try?</font color=green> My feeling is that this is an essential part of the healing process and cutting it out leaves a great big huge gap. But it can be overdone too, and we need to use caution not to overemphasize these topics or make them seem mundane or make people uncomfortable too often. Spirituality is powerful, and in this environment probably needs to be used sparingly and with caution and sensitivity.

Wendy



<font color=orange>There is an easy answer to your problem that is neat, plausible, and wrong.

</font color=orange>

[Peanut61]

Hi Carrie: I think your post is very compelling, so here are some of the thoughts I came up with...

My [Carrie's] questions are:
1. How important is religion/spirituality to your healing process?

Very important.

2. How can we bring these topics up in our responses and threads without offending other people...how can we maintain respect for one anothers ideas?

I usually talk about sending folks 'positive energy' and the like, unless I know that I won't offend them by saying 'prayer'...
When referring to God, I sometimes say the 'Cosmos', again, if I don't know a person's religious beliefs, etc..

3. How can we tap into the healing aspect of spirituality while at the same time avoid the warring nature of religious difference?

I think we just have to focus on our own spiritual journey, and let what others do be their choice, i.e., not feel like we have to 'defend' our beliefs...'to each his own' kind of thing...

4. Is it possible to do in a environment such as this?

Yes I do; I'm so glad that you raised these issues for discussion, ((((Carrie))))!

5. Is it desireable to even try?

Absolutely.

Most fondly, Peanut


<font color=blue>HI FROM PEANUT</font color=blue>

[Chippie]

I'm not really religious at all but religions do interest me a lot so personally I don't mind. I'd have to say maybe small mentions of religious type things, I can't really think of one, but like god bless you or something small and not drawn out may be overlooked by someone who may be offended or just replace what you would have said with something of similar meaning. Again I really dont know but i do know that there has to be some way to work this out and it is definantly worth trying. I do know many people find spirituality is a wonderful help in their healing so it definantly shoud not be excluded completly and never mentioned. Just making sure you respect for others beliefs should be ok i would think
Chippie

[Zenobia]

Thanks Wendy, Peanut and Chippie for your replies. What amazes me about religious difference is the fact that all religions are so darn simular. The construct of god/goddess/gods is basically the same--they are all unknowable (to the human psyche) forces that support us in our daily lives. Pagan spells are merely prayers with hoopla. The desire is to find inner and outer peace. The list goes on but I will stop there because I have had a long day but the point is with all the simularities is seems so strange that we--as in the human race--focus on the differences.

Personally I think that spirituality is absolutely vital in recovery. I have been trying to think back to times when I was not hurting myself for extended periods of time and I find that those times link up to times when I was working on some sort of religious rite. Planning for a celebration usually takes me an entire month which is spent in contemplation of the divine and my connection to it. During the planning time I will feel content and well. There are mild fluctuations of mood but they will stabilize quickly. Then the celebration happens and all the planning comes to its culmination and the ritual has been completed and I will drop into a deep depression because I have to move back into the normal world. The question is why, being pagan, don't I go ahead with all the marvelous celebrations and be connected all the time--what with full moon and new moon and 8 sabbats and yada yada yada. I could be planning something all year round. The aswer is, I am scared. My T said right out that I shouldn't delve into the mystical because I am mentally ill and prone to delusion. This statement connects nicely with my old programing of no self worlth. A celebration brings an ecstatic feeling that I don't deserve. Add to that the fear of delusion and hospitalization and it makes for a monster of a problem.

I watch the commercials on tv advertising those christian music cd's where the people in the audiance have their hands raised and are feeling the energy. That is no different then what I feel, the peaceful surrender to something greater then myself but in my case is it delusional? I have no childhood religious training, how do I know it is real? So much of what makes a religious experience special could easily be labled psychotic or delusional. I didn't dare mention to my T that I did a spiritual cleansing excercise and felt my spiritual body sink into the earth then circle up through the sky and flow back into my mundane structure transformed and beautiful. But I have seen the same thing happen in my husband's church to other people when they pray and their souls reach out to the divine.

I know that I have have gone way off the intent of the thread. I guess what I am trying to express is how important it is to be able to acknowlege to others that there is this part of us that needs nurishing but the current medical society has labled this important element of health as psychological pathology. I am squirming under the lable and trying to reconcile it in my mind but it just doesn't seem right. And because of the hotness of the topic it is hard to discuss it with other people.

Sorry this is so rambling. My dog bit someone else's dog today when it came into our yard and now I feel bad because their dog is hurt and I feel mad because if they would just tie the beast up so it didn't wander the neighborhood it wouldn't have gotten bit in the first place. This angst is amplifying my need in talking about my spiritual angst and so...I should just stop rambling and sign my name.
Carrie

<font color=green>But the implicit and usually unconscious bargain we make with ourselves is that, yes, we want to be healed, we want to be made whole, we're willing to go some distance, but we're not willing to question the fundamental assumptions upon which our way of life has been built, both personally and societally.--Bill Plotkin, Soulcraft

[PlanningtoLive]

{{{{{{{{Carrie}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

I, like Wendy, can usually be tracked down here but hidden mostly lately. I gave your post a great deal of thought and decided to answer it as honestly as I could.

1.How important is religion/spirituality to your healing process? Once upon a time, it would have gotten me thru most anything. In the last few years my dedication has waned, although my beliefs have not.

2. How can we bring these topics up in our responses and threads without offending other people...how can we maintain respect for one anothers ideas? Like everyone stated, mostly just realizing that one person's ideas are NOT going to be identical or sometimes even close to theirs. By saying "I think" or "I feel" will help also. You shouldn't fault someone for their feelings.

3. How can we tap into the healing aspect of spirituality while at the same time avoid the warring nature of religious difference? Hmmmm, honestly, it depends on who is reading and responding to the posts I guess and trying to keep waters smooth. There should be a new icon - possibly a cross - that would designate this topic, and then people would know to avoid them if they may be offended.

4. Is it possible to do in a environment such as this? I believe it can be.

5. Is it desireable to even try? Yes, if only to maybe help just one person get their lives back on track, to make someone think before acting.........yes, I'm jumping up and down for this one.

Mary Alice

[LadyDragus]

1.To me my sprituality has been very helpfull in my healing...
I think God has helped me out a lot over the last few months

2.Bringing these topics up in our responses are very hard to do, because some will be offended by them, and some may not even want us to mentioning them.
.
I for one can maintian respect and others ideas about what they have in relgion, and how they veiw it for each person has a view and a idea..

3. The way I think we can tap into the healing aspect of this is to ask others just the way you have Zenobia, in a list just like this, no perssure, just a list of questions on how someone else would view a fourm, or how someone would view an outlet to possible be able to talk about this sort of stuff.
I know I would enjoy being able to do that from time to time, and just relax and listen to what books someone has read, other than the bible on this topic, and what there view point could lead us all to reading about..
3a.. waht other religions we could learn about.. that is another possibiblty, also.. To me that could lead to even more intense dicssusions, but, it could aslo lead us all down a path of enlightenment of finding a new way to look at life, and a new way to belive in the way the world works around us, and seeing how others belive may let us all see that we are not all in this alone..

4. Yes it is possible in an enviroment like this, To me I think it is a very good place to put up a fourm like this, for all to enjoy and read.. We would put a disclamier RELIGION ON THE FOURM !!!!!! and if it triggers do not PROCEED !!!!!!
no need to do anything else in my opion.. but alas this is all up to Doc John..

5. Very desireable to try, I for one have Pm'd doc and asked to be a mod in this forum, for I think it woudl be a wonderful Idea, to have a fourm like this and I would enjoy being a large part of it..

Love to all ..
God Bless
</a

<font color=purple>
The light is around me now
I see it so clearly now
I feel him in my heart
Lord God has set me free.
Let me rejoice in you
Let me be free
I love the lord God.
I have been Saved by your Grace and love today...04/11/04