Why are men threatened by sexually empowered women?

I often noticed that as of late, men feel like they are playing second banana, so to speak, to women and female sexuality. This can also be construed as feminism. However, I often wonder why men feel so completely threatened when the playing field is equalized more, and they are no longer the ones calling all the shots.

Is it because men are so used to being in control that they fear losing it and thus, losing what identity they've come to relate to? Is it because society as a whole has been male dominated for so many centuries that progressing it to that where men and woman are equal that the very idea of change scares them? Don't you think that after millennia of their being men in charge, that it should be a woman's turn? Why are men so not willing to share with women in the "power department"?

The world has for a long time, been a man's world. In the past, a husband would have sex with their wives when they wanted to, and the woman was expected to comply, whether they wanted to or not. They were expected to "obey" their husbands. Before they were married, they were expected to "obey" their father, and do what he wanted them to do, regardless of whether or not they wanted to do it. Even marriage was out of the woman's control. If the father disapproved of it, it would not commence. Only a man the father approved of would be permitted to marry his daughter. The woman would have absolutely no say in the matter, or very little.

What we are seeing now, especially with the "me too" movement, is women becoming in charge of their lives, and more importantly, their own bodies. All too often, and not to say it's with every man in the world because all men all different, but every too often you see older, dominant men thinking that all women are there to please them, and if they (for example) wear clothing that is considered 'revealing' they are asking for sexually suggestive favors.

Which brings up another thing, why do women have to cover themselves up when it's in fact, the men who have trouble controlling their own sexual impulses? Alas, that may be a discussion in and of itself, and for another thread. It warrants a discussion too. Shaming the female form, and lack of control on the part of some men.

However, I am discussing why men feel so completely threatened, so I shall refocus myself. Why is it that some men look upon this movement, or even the word "feminist/feminism" with such disdain and repugnance?

Is it that they feel their very masculinity is threatened? Men are very competitive and as a result of their testosterone, always wanting to assert their dominance. It's in the very fabric of male genetics. In any species, the main goal of the male is to out do other males, prove their genetic superiority and pass these superior genes down to the next generation. It's the very essence of evolutionary existence. Perpetuating the species with the best genes available so that it goes on strong and for a long, long time.

However, humanity claims to have evolved beyond the mere need to pass on superior genetic material. Yet, has it? If antifeministic men are any indication, it hasn't. These sorts of men are probably content on banging their chests and proving they can holler the loudest. An assumption on my part, sure, but is it really that far from the truth?

I feel we as a society shouldn't worry about which gender has the most power in a relationship. I'm not talking about BDSM and DOM/sub relationships here, that is another discussion entirely. I'm talking about sexual liberation here. Women shouldn't feel ashamed about their bodies, shouldn't feel like they are dirty or slutty just because they are showing a small amount of cleavage or skin. They should feel that they are in charge of their own bodies, and determine for themselves what is the appropriate level of skin to show. They should be in control of their own vagina, and have rights over it.

Not to bring up another hot button issue, but some other things in our society have more rights than a woman has over her own vagina. Why can't a woman have complete and utter control over it? Over what goes into it, and what comes out of it? Yet, there are some that see fit to have a say over another person's own body, some men who see fit to control a woman's rights to her own vagina, and when the females start wanting that control back, the men feel utterly threatened and fear that society is "loosing it's morals and tearing apart as we know it".

Okay, I'm ranting at this point, so I'll leave you with the very question I started this thread off with..

"Why are some men so threatened by female empowerment/feminism?"

I'm genuinely curious about this. Why are men so completely threatened by a woman who is dominate in both the work place, and with her own sexuality?

Still curious...

It's because generally those groups of people who have historically been glorified over others, in command, socialized that they are superior just for having been born the way they were, feel very threatened and weakened by those privileges(including the very subtle stuff that we don't realize have an effect on the psyche) being taken away, by no longer being in a position where they were one step ahead and above other categories of people from birth.

This isn't just something pertaining to men vs women either, but also to white people in multicultural societies for ex.

Sexism and patriarchy still prevails, albeit on very subtle levels in some parts, so most boys in western countries grow up in societies that instill and condition that expectation of their own innate superiority over at least one category, women. But since in many ways these societies have made progress and are striving towards riding themselves of these beliefs, these boys then have that conditioning tested in the real world and they ofc don't realize they've just been conditioned, it's just the way things are, people don't often question, deeply question, why and how they perceive themselves to be, their place in the world, etc.

So you have men who have been conditioned to a bigger or smaller degree that being a man means you are somehow better than women and that in an interaction with a woman, more so if it's a competition(for a job, a place in university, even a game) you're already in advantage because you're better equipped from the start and if you lose then that means you were impotent not that the woman was just better.

It's kinda like some rich kid who grows up super privileged and is conditioned to see himself as better and having more value than others just cause he has money and stuff. He expects preferential treatment because of that and when he doesn't get it or he ends up without all that money or fails despite having the money he feels like he lost the source of his superiority, that advantage that was there no matter what he did.

Same with men. When they are put in a situation where even that one upper hand they subconsciously thought they had over someone just for being a man, is gone, then it makes them feel threatened to the very core of their identity, like an inner crisis of who they thought they were.

Men often, subconsciously or consciously, don't perceive women as true competition so when a woman challenges that by being obviously smarter, more successful, stronger, etc, they feel threatened to their core or they feel he's being discriminated against cause a women can't be a real challenge to them unless they are artificially given an upper hand.

There was a study that concluded men want intelligent women and are even turned on by the idea of a woman as intelligent/successful or more so than himself, but only when they're not actually faced with her. Ofc not all men fall into this, plenty of men don't feel threatened by women like that, but on average the overwhelming majority do, to some extent or another. So when it came to actually choosing to date someone more intelligent than them, they usually didn't feel as attracted.

These tendencies are particularly high amongst men who have lower incomes and who generally come from environments and social standings more likely to be faced with economical and social harships, who feel trapped and powerless and isolated already, etc. That along with less education and lack of access to a broader knowledge and sense of the world they live in, makes men cling harder to that superiority of their manhood or white ethnicity for ex, because it is literally the only thing they have, they are so disenfrenchised and feel so powerless, living their lives in a world that is narrow and empty. If that subconscious feeling of worth and control they get from perceiving themselves as better than women and ethnic minorities no matter how powerless and incapable and at the bottom of society they are otherwise, is taken away, they're left with nothing.

It's not just lack of education that makes rural, poorer areas more sexist and racist on average. It's this too, this conditioned sense of superiority that is weaved into the narrow definition of this one gender and "confirmed" by centuries of oppression of the other genders, the other races, other religions, etc.

So ofc men feel threatened and, again, the ones who have that superiority, the ones in power, they never want to give that up, they'll always resist doing it, they'll always try and find a way to give a false sense of equality and agency and privilege that actually keeps them in power. In this case of course it's not something that happens consciously but it's not easy to give up that sense of superiority, one you might not even realize you have.

I will give an example. Nowadays I think in western societies there's two major ways in which women are still kept subtly in place. One would be beauty standards and the other being a brand of feminism that promotes itself as being radical and inclusive but is actually not. This radical feminism is the type that comes up with ideas like celebrating a woman using her body to get what she wants from a man. That's not feminism and men rarely if ever do that. Or the one that glorifies using the insane beauty standards and objectification of women to get ahead and get comfortable. Again, no, those are at the core sexist born things. Then, these beauty standards and expectations take up a lot of women's time, money, energy and thinking power and automatically makes them prioritize they looks and put more value in it than in other things. That keeps them objectified and used to it and also takes up valuable time cause imagine if more women weren't burdened by every physical imperfection and every extra pound and having to look all fresh and well dressed and cute at every step.

People talk a lot about the oppression of women through clothing in muslim countries but fashion everywhere is made for the male gaze, for male pleasure. In some cases they are hidden through clothes for male comfort and in others they're encouraged to wear as little and as tight clothing as possible and make themselves look perfect also for male gaze.

Women's sexuality is much more free right now but it's still policed subtly and shamed through all these other stuff. Now you're supposed to be sexy and sexual but only for a select few because no one wants an over used object and if you teach women it's truly fine to be as sexual as they want, they might not want you, they might speak out more when they don't really like how the man is during sex, they might leave men faster and they might actually go pursue the men they want instead more often instead of waiting to be approached. That last part would be incredibly empowering.

I agree with just about everything Entity said. Good post!

I find this so interesting, although I completely disagree.

I don’t see how being angry at men who aren’t sexist, is going to help woman get over the internal fears/notions/rhetoric that influences their decisions. Ultimately, leading to finger pointing at an entire gender.

I don’t really have an answer for you Artchic. I do think my vagina is under my own control. I laugh at those who think different. But then I’ve pretty much always marched to my own drum.

This issue is frustrating to many and there are no easy answers. It’s also been going on for thousands of years. It’s true I think, some men feel threatened, but being that there are billions of men on the planet it’s not a good idea to plop them all in one basket. I don’t think the women who demonize men and claim they are unnecessary or redundant are helping our cause. My feelings are generally that men and women are different but equal, and that no one has the right to tell anyone what to do about their genitalia or any other aspect of their lives, regardless of gender.

Thanks Shaz.... for perfectly articulating my mixed up thoughts. If only the population possessed your sense pragmatism and foresight.

All men and women are "touched" by sexism(towards women) to some extent, the world is at the core and at the surface filled with sexist messages, just that some are so subtle and ingrained in the fabric of society that they are almost not noticeable, unquestioned.

In the same way all white people are touched by racism. The idea is to analyze everything, the meaning and origin of everything we're conditioned to believe about one another and about ourselves from the perspective of gender, sexuality or ethnicity and better ourselves, cure ourselves of these harmful perceptions, catching and correcting ourselves when we have a knee jerk reaction to judge someone in any way based on something like their gender or color.

No one is blaming all men and of course there's a lot of men who are absolutely feminist and reject toxic masculinity and so on. The idea is that we are all sadly starting off by being socialized and conditioned to have some sexist perceptions, because those are the messages we're bombarded by from a young age when we absorb without being able to choose.

It's not pointing fingers, it's drawing attention to what is inside of us all. After all, some of the most sexist people in the world are women. We all receive the same messages about who is strong and who is weak, as a general example.

Besides, the first step to changing something is to identify all the problems, accept they're there and need changing and then do something about it.

I think one very interesting and telling perspective is that of trans people who transition and "pass". There are such subtle differences sometimes in how people treat you based on assumed gender, that you can only be made fully aware when you experience both. I've read more than a few accounts from transwomen who knew people are sexist but still had a shock and there's transmen who talked about how much safer they felt just because they're perceived as men, nothing more, how much more respected they felt everywhere or that they felt under less scrutiny at work, treated more fairly, etc and often this feeling came from super small things.

Artchic wrote:
and

The most popular academic in North America is a psychology professor named Jordan Peterson. He is white collar, academic version of Trump. He believes birth control has ruined western civilization because it allowed women freedom to have sex more freely and not be forced into becoming a mother. That Marriage and the basis of a family is the back bone of society. He also believes that women shouldn't wear lipstick in the work place on video. Because the redness reflects the rush of blood going to the lips when having sex.

Jordan Peterson got popular when in a youtube video he told his students that he would not call a person by their chosen pronoun, he would either label them male or female based on their sex at birth. He believes that these gender norms of male masculinity and old fashion feminine were built to protect society and families. Young men then went in droves to his youtube videos and follow this man closely. He gets $50k a month just by Patreon, where followers donate money to see his exclusive material.

All of this is Jordan Peterson rationalizing his extreme misogyny. He is an example of toxic masculinity and droves of young men are going to hi,m because he's the only one seeing that there is an identity problem with young, white men, and no one else is stepping in. It crushes my heart because he is such a terrible role model.

Entity makes a lot of sense, but i think we should take a step back and ask how the metaquestion of how we got here. Because of globalization the unskilled factory jobs aren't here anymore. Because the minimum wage is rarely raised setting it at not even $8 they aren't finding good jobs. Previous decades had pay checks that were worth more, and the middle class was thriving becauser of these factory jobs. The middle class has been thinning for decades and even government workers with a college degree are being forced out of it now because of the trickle down economic theory that promised "If you lighten the tax burden of the rich, then they will give it to their workers." This has proven not to work, and the rich just keep the money. At no point in history have the top 1 percent held this much, and the youth are displaced now, they can't buy homes and they feel they are missing out and white males males feel like they cant provide like they once were. So young, white males are making less and are growing up in a more and more multi cultural society, and the rich, who have bought the government, point to the poor people on welfare, and blame the poor (who probably just make minumum wage thanks to the government setting the bar so low) for the place that young, white males are in now. And this is the back bone of the rust belt vote for Trump.

Like Entity says, "Theyve been conditioned", in a world where it was once better economically, and now you see this antimulticultural movement by Trump, his anti immigration policies, his slurring of peoples' religion. Social programs when FDR introduced them were HUGELY accepted, but now young white males see people of color on them and scream and shout about them now that we live in a more multicultural situation, even though white people use them more than any other skin tone.

Young, white males feel they built this country because of this beleif of "whiteness as a powerstruccture" due to their ancestry, which is a terrible idea. And now because they've had a taste of what globalism is forcing them into economically, they are pushing back. That's why they feel threatened in general. With the internet came the TODAL DEMOCRITATION OF KNOWLEDGE, it was the second coming of the book With this great power light has been shed on how bad our societal norms are, and this makes them feel uncomfortable too.

Often in history there is an a movement with an idea, then a countermovement, and finally a synthesis that brings it all back together. There is reason in history. The patriarchy has been around since ancient greece started Olympianism, which toppled the older, more feminine, cthonic religion they had. If you want an example of the old religion just look at Euripides' Medea as the older more cthonic religion, and how Ancient Greece saw it as dangerous and dark. But as women have been given the vote, as women been given birth control to control their reproduction, as women go to colleges in droves to shape the future, and inspire and start to push back, that patriarchy is being checked for once. THIS IS A HISTORICAL MOMENT. Men now have to take responisbility, right now men are falling left and right, but i believe men should just admit all they've done and ask for forigveness just as Al Franken did. I find it tragic that he was not forgiven after pictures of him touching a womans chest who was wearing a kevlar vest in a comedic pose, and he was labeled under the category of Weinstein and Cosby.

[QUOTE=Day Tripper;6103720]Artchic wrote:

and

The most popular academic in North America is a psychology professor named Jordan Peterson. He is white collar, academic version of Trump. He believes birth control has ruined western civilization because it allowed women freedom to have sex more freely and not be forced into becoming a mother. That Marriage and the basis of a family is the back bone of society. He also believes that women shouldn't wear lipstick in the work place on video. Because the redness reflects the rush of blood going to the lips when having sex.

Jordan Peterson got popular when in a youtube video he told his students that he would not call a person by their chosen pronoun, he would either label them male or female based on their sex at birth. He believes that these gender norms of male masculinity and old fashion feminine were built to protect society and families. Young men then went in droves to his youtube videos and follow this man closely. He gets $50k a month just by Patreon, where followers donate money to see his exclusive material.

All of this is Jordan Peterson rationalizing his extreme misogyny. He is an example of toxic masculinity and droves of young men are going to hi,m because he's the only one seeing that there is an identity problem with young, white men, and no one else is stepping in. It crushes my heart because he is such a terrible role model.

Entity makes a lot of sense, but i think we should take a step back and ask how the metaquestion of how we got here. Because of globalization the unskilled factory jobs aren't here anymore. Because the minimum wage is rarely raised setting it at not even $8 they aren't finding good jobs. Previous decades had pay checks that were worth more, and the middle class was thriving becauser of these factory jobs. The middle class has been thinning for decades and even government workers with a college degree are being forced out of it now because of the trickle down economic theory that promised "If you lighten the tax burden of the rich, then they will give it to their workers." This has proven not to work, and the rich just keep the money. At no point in history have the top 1 percent held this much, and the youth are displaced now, they can't buy homes and they feel they are missing out and white males males feel like they cant provide like they once were. So young, white males are making less and are growing up in a more and more multi cultural society, and the rich, who have bought the government, point to the poor people on welfare, and blame the poor (who probably just make minumum wage thanks to the government setting the bar so low) for the place that young, white males are in now. And this is the back bone of the rust belt vote for Trump.

Like Entity says, "Theyve been conditioned", in a world where it was once better economically, and now you see this antimulticultural movement by Trump, his anti immigration policies, his slurring of peoples' religion. Social programs when FDR introduced them were HUGELY accepted, but now young white males see people of color on them and scream and shout about them now that we live in a more multicultural situation, even though white people use them more than any other skin tone.

Young, white males feel they built this country because of this beleif of "whiteness as a powerstruccture" due to their ancestry, which is a terrible idea. And now because they've had a taste of what globalism is forcing them into economically, they are pushing back. That's why they feel threatened in general. With the internet came the TODAL DEMOCRITATION OF KNOWLEDGE, it was the second coming of the book With this great power light has been shed on how bad our societal norms are, and this makes them feel uncomfortable too.

Often in history there is an a movement with an idea, then a countermovement, and finally a synthesis that brings it all back together. There is reason in history. The patriarchy has been around since ancient greece started Olympianism, which toppled the older, more feminine, cthonic religion they had. If you want an example of the old religion just look at Euripides' Medea as the older more cthonic religion, and how Ancient Greece saw it as dangerous and dark. But as women have been given the vote, as women been given birth control to control their reproduction, as women go to colleges in droves to shape the future, and inspire and start to push back, that patriarchy is being checked for once. THIS IS A HISTORICAL MOMENT. Men now have to take responisbility, right now men are falling left and right, but i believe men should just admit all they've done and ask for forigveness just as Al Franken did. I find it tragic that he was not forgiven after pictures of him touching a womans chest who was wearing a kevlar vest in a comedic pose, and he was labeled under the category of

Yeah I’m gonna pass on this whole threa|d before i really piss y’all off.

Interesting that the topic of this thread has you enraged. I'm genuinely curious as to why some men feel this way though, and thought such this a healthy discussion that could satiate my curiosity.

I'm sorry if you find the topic triggering, but that is what drives my curiosity.

Is it really that angering to you that I want to be payed the same amount as a man for doing the same thing for the same duration of time and not be taken advantage of? If so, I'm just thoroughly confused here. Where does this anger come from?

It discomforted me at first, but that's because I, As a young, white male, have been conditioned in such a way to respond. The language can seem offensive at first, all this talk about privilidge and what not at first blush is meant to harm, but in actuality, there are priviliges of being of such birth, and that's not exactly cool...

#notallmen

Personally I love sexually empowered women and the sooner patriarchy becomes history the better

Question: are you talking about all men in the world here or are you talking about your current one?

I once heard a woman in a talk show talking about sex and she said something like that a man breaking through the door with his erection wanting to just throw you on the floor and nail you like a rabbit from behind (excuse the wording) is very repelling to her. And that rather the lust on both people should build up mutually time after time. Well, I can certainly relate to this. And while I find it generally very attractive when a woman gives me a very clear message that she wants me, right now, right here, there can also be a "too much" on this one. At least for me. I once made the experience for example that I had barely woken up in the morning and she stomped naked into the bed room and immediately straddled on my face, pressing her already very wet vagina very hard on my face yelling "F... ME! F... ME!". This was just a bit "too much" of it for me and at this moment it was rather repelling to me than arousing. I guess men are generally simpler on that one and are easier and quicker aroused, but even there are some limits to it. At least for some.

I think there is a difference between sexually empowered and sexually aggressive, I would have the same problem as you with that (and have had similar experiences) but then I suspect the same would be true of most women if that was their boyfriend. Aggression is not the same as empowerment (or assertiveness).

Good grief if someone shoved their genitals in my face before I had coffee there would be hell to pay!

I agree. Then, where is the line? What is considered to be ok and what not?
It didn't become clear to me, about what concrete behavior the OP is talking about.

I have to admit that until not that long ago I abused sex as a kind of pain killer, just like alcohol, nicotine and the like. Means, often I didn't want sex because I was in the mood for it, but because I just wanted to get carried away. That's something that probably doesn't go unnoticed by the partner.

Just like when someone (99% men) is desperately looking for a one night stand and it could be almost anybody who just isn't grossly ugly or disgusting. Like a piece of meat that is just barely doable. This rarely goes unnoticed.

The opposite to this (been there) is when the woman (in most cases it is the woman) just doesn't like sex and considers it only as chore to keep him around and/or uses it to educate and discipline. "You've been a good boy all day. You did the groceries, painted the fence and fixed the computer. Good dog, here's your treat - you may now use my vagina for 10 minutes. Wouldn't mind though if you could make it only 5". Very frustrating. A woman who likes sex and doesn't mind to say it beats that any time to me.

But anyway, the question is what exactly is supposed to threaten men?

Empowerment (like assertiveness) still respects and recognises another person's boundaries and consent, aggression doesn't. So you are able to articulate and express your own needs and wishes but not at the expense of others.

Thing is that economical and social improvement is not the only solution because we're not just talking about America here or about people still alive. Patriarchy and male entitlement(and racist, white supremacy) are things that have existed for thousands of years and especially once certain religions, Christianity being a great example, became powerful enough to exert political and legislative power while also being the one deciding what is good and bad, who is better, who is an outcast, etc.

The disenfranchisement of the lower middle class and of skilled workers, of people in rural communities and of those without higher education is not a new thing, it existed always and only rarely were they more empowered, in certain unique circumstances or periods of particular prosperity.

Aggressive capitalism and right wing ideologies(by this I don't mean extremist right wing, just "regular" right wing ideologies that favor the upper middle class and the rich, the "intellectuals" over the skilled workers, that don't favor a social state that tries to help and even things with things like social healthcare systems the likes you find in ALL of western Europe - aka the best healthcare systems, not perfect but the best there is -, that promotes a sort of selfishness on the part of those more fortunate, etc) are generally harmful to everyone who isn't already well off or an intellectual elite. That is not a gender thing, it affects both men and women just as much only women are not socialized and conditioned to have an aggressive(mentally or physically) reaction to it the way men are. For women, who have already been suffering from oppression and who have always been treated as lesser human beings in on way or another, it's just another step down into the "mud" let's say. For men though...they fall off a pedestal.

Thing is we are not talking here about the US in particular, I'm not even American so although I know way too much about American politics, this is not a US centric debate.

And I do completely agree with what you said in this post and another reply, men just have to recognize their privilege, check their privilege and try to relinquish it. No one wants to do that but equality is actually good for both men and women.

Men could benefit tremendously from true equality because that eliminates toxic masculinity and gives more freedom to men to feel their feelings, admit their needs of being supported and comforted and it also would take some pressure away because by not being thought of as inherently superior and more able, it would be truly ok(not just legally or whatever but with no social stigma and conditioning to affect self esteem and self worth) to not be the one earning more money, being the "strong" one (which just means denying yourself the need for comfort and help).

Yes, men would have to pitch in equally with house chores and the nasty bits of having a child and would not be able to randomly objectify and sexualize women at every step or feel innately superior over this one category, but that isn't right away and that privilege and comfort comes with the oppression and dehumanization of women. Having these privileges is not a privilege at all actually.

There's a lot of freedom is being allowed to be imperfect, because no is perfect, no one is inherently stronger or weaker and feelings or the need to be helped, having bad days, being sad, feeling loss, needing love, crying...those things are good to have freely because we all have them and when men are sort of pushed into repressing them or just not dealing with them, that ends up keeping a lot of men from experiencing full intimacy, connection, happiness, intimate and fulfilling friendships, a helping hand, etc.

As someone who is clearly a 'staunch" feminist, I want full equality and that doesn't only mean not being objectified, having equal rights legally and also in the actual world where just because it's law doesn't mean it happens, not being socially pressured to wear make up and look a certain way to an extent men aren't pressured to do it, not having my worth stand first and foremost in how I look, truly having equal opportunities in life.

No, I want all those things but I also want the responsibilities. For ex, I don't want men to pay for me just because I'm the woman, I want to split the bill or, in a relationship for ex, I want to pay sometimes and then he can pay some other time too ofc like it happens with friends too. I don't want a man to be "my rock" ,I want us to be a team with equal rights and responsibilities, who support each other in equal measure to the best of our abilities. I don't want a "tough" or "stoic" man, I want sensitive men and yes that means I am ready to be there for them as well emotionally. A lot of women want that, to provide in equal measure, to be allowed to, but that does come with society as a whole rejecting gender norms and stereotyping that it has inherited in various forms from past generations.

It's like when you say religion is inherently pretty bad and violent. That's not to say everyone who believes in God is bad or violent at all or that everything about religion is that way, but as a whole it tends to be.

I don't expect men to apologize to me just as I don't think, for ex, every German needs to apologize for nazism. Men have to do what Germans did post war basically, admit that they were part of a society that gave the world nazism and ended up killing a lot of people, even if many individuals weren't guilty of anything, take a broad responsibility for it as a group and work towards eliminating the parts of their culture and mentality that made Hitler and genocide possible. Accountability is the first step.

Yes I so want this, I agree the benefits for all sexes/genders are much greater than the perceived threats.

I never said anything about the gender pay gap? Nor did I indicate any anger or that I was enraged.

While it has bred quite an intelligent discussion and some incredibly well-written and supported posts; the title and original posts felt more like baiting than an attempt at rational discussion.

It wasn't my intention to "bait" anyone. I was just curious about it is all.

Yeah I’m sorry. It’s an intense topic.

To me what is going on now(with the US news, and enflamed alt groups) reminds me of the beginning of the Stanford/zimbardo prision experiments.

Artchic, have you ever read the book “A Room of One’s Own” by Virginia Wolfe? She addresses why women struggle to succeed and offers a very interesting theory that some men fall into to the trap of thinking women are “less than” because they need someone to feel superior to in order to boost their own self esteem.