[KazzaX]

Hiya,

I would just love to acquire some self esteem. I have never had any, so I would like to get a bit for a change, lol. However, to get self esteem, you have to have something about yourself that you find is a good thing. Whether it be something you are good at, how you look, or maybe its your creativity, or talent at something. You have to have at least 1 thing about yourself that you are proud of, and therefore it gives you self esteem.

However, I cannot even dress myself, or wash my clothes, or wash myself, etc (you get the general idea) let alone have anything to be PROUD about. I look horrible (because of the above), so looks are out. All my skills are gone since I had the nervous breakdown, so talents are out. I have had severe anhedonia for 19 years so hobbies, interests and creativity are out. I have not socialised in 10 years (not interested) so social abilities are out. I hate people, so "caring for others" is definitely not on my radar.

So what is left? Am I supposed to be proud of the fact that I wake up each afternoon, stay in my pj's all day, sit in front of this computer and cry all day long, then retire to bed and sleep 12 hours (due to meds) and then do it all again, not having washed in weeks?

People keep telling me the key to recovery is to get self esteem, but it makes me think the people telling me this do not even have a clue as to what self esteem really is. You cannot love someone who disgusts you, and that includes yourself. You click on any links about self esteem and it tells you all the same textbook stuff.

So what about us who do not function whatsoever, and are just basically biding their time until they get old and die? I even asked my therapist this question and she was stumped, lol.

They say "think about one thing you like about yourself". The only one I could come up with was "I can brush my teeth once a week", but that just doesn't cut it in the self esteem department.

Any ideas?

[unaluna]

At least you wear pajamas... but then I floss a few times a week, so maybe those balance each other out. Anhedonia is such a beautiful word.
I would be curious to know if you find comfort in not washing because that was how you were raised? That is true for me. It is hard to create a new comfort level for oneself.

[kitten16]

KazzaX, you must be in incredible pain. Your posting about this makes me think you're looking for a way out, which is huge - and I see it as a sign that your instincts for self-preservation are not completely kaput. There's a spark there.

You're verbal, self-aware and articulate. Maybe start with those things? It's interesting to me that you're also apparently comfortable with violating social norms, and talking about these things without embarassment (some people wouldn't be able to admit these things even on an anonymous form). Could that be a sign of your courage - another possible launch point for your self-esteem?

As strange and sad as your mental state seems to be right now, it also (for me at least) contains seeds of humor. Some of the funniest comics I can think of are massively ill-adjusted. It's the received wisdom among comics, that they tend to come from extremely f*cked up backgrounds. Yet they're honest and courageous about it, as you are - and they can make me laugh so hard I'm crying (Mark Maron is one off the top of my head).

I agree with you that the conventional self-esteem wisdom sounds like a crock of $hit. At some point somebody decided that lack of self-esteem was my main problem in life, and I never heard the end of it. Like you, I found myself wondering what on earth you're supposed to base this stuff on. I was masively depressed, had dropped out of school and alienated everyone, my parents hated me, I hated myself, my therapists let me down, I couldn't get a job. What the hell was I supposed to suddenly start feeling good about?

My internal world was what saved me. I read a lot. I created an inner life for myself that sustained me. My parents knew little about it. It was like I was feeding a secret baby tiger. Things got better, but not because I suddenly acquired self-esteem. I didn't, and I still don't really understand what it is. I don't love the term, but it may be the best short-cut term for something that has to do with radical self-acceptance, and the constant effort it requires for some of us to preserve the will to live. That's what it is for me, anyway.

I've always been suspicious of any advice to acquire skills or talents as a basis of self-esteem. What if you're a concert pianist, for instance, and you're the cat's pajamas - until you lose a hand in a car accident? What if you think you're hot because you're 20 and great looking? Can you sustain that kind of self-esteem into your 80's?

In order for self-esteem to mean anything, it HAS to be baseless. You have to want to live for the sake of life itself. It doesn't really have anything to do with feeling like you're special, popular, rich, not a loser. Those things come and go, and it's all subjective anyway.

Maybe try to live from the inside out. I know how hard it is!

[kaliope]

Youre honest, you write well, youre not afraid to reach out for help.....

[KazzaX]

Thanks guys. I was going to not come back here because my writing usually sounds sarcastic and offensive and people usually take offense to it. The only reason I'm so blunt about my dirtiness, etc is because I am anonymous and that is a good safety barrier. I have never told anyone in real life! hehe

You all have good points there that I did not think of before. Bingo! That is the stuff I was looking for right there. Many heads are better than one, so to speak.

Kitten16, I had also wondered about the pianist that loses his hand phenomenon. It made me think that self esteem is quite flimsy and based on superficial things. For example, a serial killer may be a champion swimmer and great at athletic things, but he is still a serial killer at heart. That is an extreme example ofcourse but you get the general idea.

When you say you "created an inner life that sustained me", what specifically did you mean? I don't mean really specific as in invading your privacy, but I just mean could you elaborate a bit please? I haven't got one of those so I would like to give it a try. I know I am good at things but that does not translate to self esteem, so maybe the inner life thing could be good. I haven't thought of that before.

Thanks

[Sunna]

Hello Kazzax.
In my view self-esteem needs no base. The esteem from others does. I have just been reflecting what a Leo I am, and how no matter how deep I slid, and how unappealing, uninteresting, repulsive, useless, stupid, worthless, invisible, etc, and so on, people may think of me, it was not really affecting my self esteem. This kind of self-esteem gave me nothing to stand on with other people. I had to pretend I am something attractive or interesting, and was aware that I wasn't doing a good job of it, and it was heartbreaking, but there was some inner core, that was untouchable. As child I dreamt that I became a pariah, a shadowy figure, covered in filthy torn rags and a hood, so no one would see my face. I was diseased and stinking (interestingly I first found a guru, who was that and he guided me on the path). I slept in cemetaries, and scrurried out of people's way. One may think being in such a state would distress me, but that dream had no sense of distress, instead a feeling of freedom, mixed in with a little sadness, for I lost the few friends I had, and knew I will never have any. But that aside, I was fine. One of those dreams that stuck with me, without me trying to remember it. I tried to decipher what it meant, and just got it kinda now.

I also think, that possibly, every human has that core sense, it's just usually not easy to know it under all the b.s. that our minds pile upon us. I tend to wax mystical, so I fancy that it could be the Awareness, that which is part if All That Is and knows it. A point of light, like tiniest grain of sand, that is also a mighty galaxy.

Please tell me, if you don't mind, when you cry, why do you cry, who do your cry for? Is it yourself? I ask not because I am callous, though I suspect I am, but I think crying comes from the heart, and in order to cry for anyone, or anything, one has to love. And, yes, you may disgust yourself, but is it possible that you also love yourself? Not approve, be proud of or any of that, just pure love, love despite everything and everyone.