[ShadowsinTheDay]

If people with DID would answer to possible.

Hey, I got this from the post, "inner Child." I didn't think I should reck there thread, so Im making a new one with questions on it.

This website that the post pasted, "http://www.aest.org.uk/innerchild/How_can_i_%20find%20_my_inner_child.html"

Brought up alot of questions for me. Like.
How is a non surivier soppost to have an Inner Child?

Are Inner Children like Little Alters of DID Systems?

Can there be more then one, like DID?

Is the Inner Child aware as much as I've read up on the Little Alters of a DID System? Like do they know they are in a now, adalt body? Do they speak to you in words, like a Little Alter, can they see what they are doing? What differances are there from a Little Alter, and an Inner Child?

What about body changes, and hand writting and all that? Why can/ can't an Inner Child do that, but a DID Little Alter can?

Mostly last, why didn't the person became DID insted of just having an Inner Child?

ShadowsinThe Day (Thanks for enduring my questions.

[kimmydawn]

This is all my perspective and POV...possibly differing from professional views as well as other members' views...

An inner child is NOT a child alter. There a clear distinctions between the two.

Everyone dissociates to a degree, it can be necessary and healthy. Everyone is parted to a degree...having the part that works, the part that talks with a professional or minister, the part the "hangs with the gals/guys", the part that is their parents child, the part the hurts with harsh words, the part the goes to the amusement park...everyone is parted. An inner child is a part of a cohesive (or even more parted than average) mind. The average parts are available most all the time, and interact together for the best result and reasoning for a person.

The DID'er can have parts like above. Then there are the more separate parts.

With DID, there are one, but usually more than one, child part(s). They're as above but separate and walled off as needed by a child suffering horrific fears and/or abuse. There aren't usually the connections between parts to work as a whole as the average person. As abuse and need continues, the parts become full-fledged alters or "others" becoming more defined and separate as time goes on. The "out part" can't hold all the ugly and function as needed in school, with other children, complying to demands that go against natural reactions, etc. As they become more separate, they can develop different characteristics, gifts, capabilities, styles, thinking, etc. The child part is the part that is still a child because it's holding for the rest that which it holds. In doing so, he/she remains a child...learning as they go but maintaining that which they hold and are. It's necessary to maintain...always...to survive.

An inner child is the part of a mind who does hold the special in those precious childlike ways with those childlike feelings. They might be a bit more separate than the average part, but not nearly as separate as an alter/other. They may be separate enough to hold that which the adult can't/don't want to and therefore the adult doesn't have access all the time. However, they wouldn't have a *separate* "personality" from the adult, or hold that which the adult generally can't access at all, that acts separately from the "whole" on its own, and keeping activities and actions completely separate and away from the whole, etc. A child alter is very specific in what they hold, what they can tolerate, what their specific function/role is, but mainly is viewed as a different, separate and individual self, etc but also functioning separately, and sometimes without the knowledge of the main part.

For me it boils down to functioning and separateness, in combination with the diagnostic criteria. To me, like normal dissociation in comparison to disordered dissociation, there's a clear difference because I live/lived it.

Again, this is the understanding that I've come to for myself and might not apply to what others feel for themselves or what they've learned.

I have NO clue if anything I said will make ANY sense to anyone else...lol.

KD

[ShadowsinTheDay]

Thanks KD. I hope I get info from others too, and I hope what you (people?) have said has some place in what the others say. .

ShadowsinTheDay

[kimmydawn]

Only one "people" here. LOL

Well, I would never answer for another with DID as I believe it's as beautifully unique as the body's DNA.

I doubt you'll find a "completely agreeing" response on anything but love and hug posts.

Your interest is intriguing I must say...

KD

hey. there is a research group in holland who write about EP and ANP. they talk about the neurophysiology... but basically they regard the following to be on a continuum:

PTSD - split between EP and ANP
Complex PTSD - split between different EP's and ANP
DID - split between different EP's (with some elaboration) and different ANP's (with some elaboration)

An EP is an 'emotional personality'. Inner children count as EP's. EP's have defensive functions. An ANP is an 'apparently normal personality'. The host / personality who bears the actual name is typically the ANP. ANP's have day to day functions like work, looking after children etc.

Different handwriting and so on are meant to be elaborations as the person spends a lot of time in the EP state.

So... Continuum.

Here is an article if you are interested:

http://www.trauma-pages.com/a/nijenhuis-2004.php

[ShadowsinTheDay]

KD:

Ok, thanks for the info.

Thanks. I have a reason for asking these questions. .

ShadowsinTheDay

[Rapunzel]

Shadows, is it okay if I answer too even though I don't have DID?

My understanding is a lot like KD's. I've read a lot about this and also have my own experience with dissociation and ego fragments. I understand that dissociation is a normal ability that everyone has. There are different degrees and types of dissociation, and it is not a disorder as long as it doesn't cause problems or discomfort for you. People who are lost in a book or movie to the point that for the moment they are not aware of what is going around them IRL are dissociating at a normal level. If they don't come back when something IRL needs their attention, then it starts to be a problem.

Normal people also have parts or aspects of their personalities. The difference between normal and DID is the degree of connection or dissociation between the parts. KD already talked about that. In normal people the parts are connected as part of a whole personality and they all work together as one identity. In DID, the parts are separated from each other and some don't have awareness of being part of a whole with the other parts, or don't know that the other parts exist, have separate memories and abilities, etc. Maybe it would help to understand what that is like for someone who is in between, like me. I have parts, and although my parts are connected and share the same memories and all have access to the same resources (pretty much), my parts may not share resources very well. There is a part that handles academic and professional stuff, one that does emotions, one that tries to cope and pull it all together, etc. My parts hate each other and often wish that they could destroy each other. I can switch from one part to another - for me that means that I act from one part, but the others are still more or less present and aware of what I am doing - they may be dragging their feet and complaining though. It takes effort for me to figure out which part is acting, and there probably is more collaborative effort than any of the parts would like to admit. One of the goals for my therapy is integration.

I am also aware of an inner child, and to me that seems different from the parts I described above. Those parts don't have their own names (when T asked me what I wanted to call them, I tried to assign them numbers - T didn't go for that so we settled for descriptions). My inner child is Heidi. I don't feel very connected to her, but I think the more emotional part of me has more connection. Somehow it seems that other people can recognize Heidi, as a lot of people have accidentally called me by that name even though I have never mentioned that name to them.

Right now I'm not sure what exactly the inner child is either to me or to most people. It does seem to have to do with memories, and a lot to do with emotion. Some people deny their inner child and don't know that it is there (I have only noticed mine in the last couple of years). Inner children are held very deep and protected from the outside world. I think that it is actually our true selves and what is real about us, as opposed to the outer self that is developed to interact with the world and others and to be what we think others expect us to be. I think that in healthy people, the inner child and the outer self are more congruent, so the outer self is more real and alive because it fits who the person really is inside.

I am not sure how that works for people with DID. My best idea is that you have an inner child too (or more than one), and that it is not like a child alter, although maybe one or more child alters may be more in touch with your inner child, and the child alters protect the inner child fiercely. I think that the inner child is who we really are, deep inside and underneath all of the layers. DID may actually make it harder to reach and understand your inner child. What do you think?

Regarding trauma, I think that trauma causes the inner child to retreat deeper inside and be harder to reach. A person who is less traumatised (everyone experiences trauma to a greater or lesser degree) may be less aware of a difference between the inner child and the real self. A trauma survivor who is closer to healing and recovery (or completely healed) is more in tune with the inner child.

Alexandra's information is interesting too. I'll have to look at that research.

Shadows, thanks for asking those questions. Thinking about it has helped my understanding already.

Rap

[ShadowsinTheDay]

Alexandra:

Thanks.

What do you mean by this? " PTSD - split between EP and ANP
Complex PTSD - split between different EP's and ANP
DID - split between different EP's (with some elaboration) and different ANP's (with some elaboration)"

What do you mean by, elaborations? To what extent, and what are some of them? Whats the differants between an Emotonal personality, and an Apparntly normal personality? You said that an ANP was the host of the DID peron, but you also but that for PTSD. Sorry. Am I asking to hard questions?

O, and thanks for that website. I'll go over it when I can. It's long. LOL!

ShadowsinTheDay

[Rapunzel]

Shadows, it might also make sense that PTSD is also a dissociative disorder. So is borderline personality disorder. Although the types and degrees of dissociation may be different, there are many symptoms in common.

[ShadowsinTheDay]

Rapunziel:

Ya, you can answer, even if you don't have DID. .

Thanks. I think what you said helped alot. .

As for what I think, I'm not sure. I'm just new to the inner child stuff, and REALLY asking questions about it, because O haven't thought about it very much, if hardly ever.

ShadowsinTheDay

[kimmydawn]

Yep, I agree with alot that's been said here where others expanded on what I was trying to put into words (thanks).

To me, broken down, this same thing (inner child/average parting all the way up to DID) is based on "degree"...degree of alot of things, but applies to almost anything as well.

For instance, most disorders are only disorders and dx'ed as such because they're things that anyone, anytime can do at some point in their lives, or even frequently. What makes a disorder just that is the degree and effect on daily function in life. It applies here in this convo as well.

An average person can have headaches. They medicate, meditate, work past them, etc. However, they don't interfere with their regular functioning normally. Then we have those issue where headaches are actually dx'ed as something by the dr. because the severity and surrounding symptoms are greater than average. They could be dx'ed with having migraines, cluster headaches, even severe illnesses. A person can have excessive thoughts and are compulsed to do things to ease them when under high anxiety or depression. However, they're not always dx'ed with OCD. What would make it OCD are other contributing factors, as well as the degree and how it interferes with a person's daily functioning. I could go on and on about this with anything from parts/DID to use/abuse with determining addiction.

So, it depends on contributing factors, degree and interference with functioning that leads to a dx on just about anything including part of this discussion.

This is just my personal understanding as I've grown, learned and applied...

Thanks!

KD

PS - Yes, Rap, I think you're right that the DID'er has the typical inner child as well as alter/other children...or at least they can.

KD

> Am I asking to hard questions?

no, you are asking questions that would take me a while to explain, though. it would take me a while and i'm not surer i could be much clearer than the article i gave you already.

i'm not sure i agree with the article a great deal... on the way the EP's split and stuff but it is an interesting notion... i'm also not sure that trauma is required but whatever, whatever ;-)

i know its long... i guess its a matter of how much you really want to know ;-)

(i'd just kind of skim the sections that aren't so relevant)

sorry... okay, i'll try...

> What do you mean by this? " PTSD - split between EP and ANP
Complex PTSD - split between different EP's and ANP
DID - split between different EP's (with some elaboration) and different ANP's (with some elaboration)"

so the idea is that there is a continuum from PTSD to complex PTSD / borderline personality / DDNOS to DID. what determines where you end up is a mixture of innate disposition and available coping strategies and environmental supports and triggering stimulations and the intensity and frequency of intensely distressing dysregulated affect.

> What do you mean by, elaborations?

i mean the longer you spend in a state the more the state builds up skills of things it is able to do and memories of things it has done. may also build up a narrative of how old it is and what gender it is and stuff like that. EP's are supposed to be... emotional memories, really. have you ever been in an intensely distressing emotional state? welcome to your EP. thats an EP that holds your pain, you see? every time you are in that intensely distressing emotional state there is your EP again. you don't have to remember your EP in fact it would be hard for you to function in your daily life if you really remembered your pain so your EP takes it and is kind of frozen in time in that distressing state. and it can be intrusive sometimes in the form of flashbacks and the like. different people differ with respect to the degree of elaboration. 'personality fragments' can be fairly much just an intense experience of one particular emotional state. you could get a little bit of elaboration from that... a little bit of elaboration... up into a more well rounded personality that is in control a lot more of the time. taking care of work and being a different gender and learning spanish or whatever.

> Whats the differants between an Emotonal personality, and an Apparntly normal personality?

an EP is... emotional.
an ANP is... apparently normal in the sense of being able to do daily day to day stuff to keep things ticking along.

> You said that an ANP was the host of the DID peron, but you also but that for PTSD.

sure. thats because DID is thought to be a more severe version of PTSD (in DID the ANP is thought to have split as well as the EP's.)

[ShadowsinTheDay]

Thanks everyone. . This has helped alot. .

Alexandra: Thanks for the info. .

ShadowsinTheDay