[ThingWithFeathers]

I am a survivor of childhood sexual abuse, physical abuse, emotional abuse and neglect. I know clearly that what happened to me during my childhood and adolescence was abuse. What I am not sure about is something my mother used to do to me when I was really little and I'm trying to figure out why she did what she did an d whether it's considered abusive. I'm just not sure, so thought I'd take the risk and ask on here what other people make of it It's embarrassing, but here goes...

Possible trigger
She used to wake me up in the middle of the night and take me to the bathroom and put me on the toilet. I often didn't need to 'go' she would just take me there. If I didn't start urinating straight away, she would tickle me in my private parts. I would tell her 'don't, I don't like it' and try to push her hands away. She would just laugh and giggle and keep doing it. I'm confused by what happened. If she was a male, I would have more concern around what happened. But she was my mum and I can't bring myself to think of what she did as abusive.

I guess I'm wondering what others make of it. I can't really talk about it with people, so thought this might be a good place to start. Any opinion would be greatly appreciated. Thanks x

[kaliope]

well it was certainly inappropriate but i think her purpose was to get you to go the bathroom and it wasnt meant to be sexual in nature. it definitely could be considered traumatizing as it made you uncomfortable and you asked her to stop and she wouldnt so you were being victimized and being touched inappropriately against your will. if this sort of thing was reported, i dont think it would be considered abuse, but they would tell her to stop doing it,.

[Dog on a Tree]

Something doesn't add up though. If you didn't need to go then it's just plain wrong what she did. I don't know if it's abuse because I don't know the actual definition of abuse
I know that I would be very upset by this though.

this doesn't sound right.

was your mother abused?

[ThingWithFeathers]

I've been wondering that myself, 8888. My father was a violent man, my brothers were violent (to my mum - as well as me, my sister and each other) and the oldest one sexually abused me for a number of years starting when I was 8-9 years old. My whole immediate family was completely dysfunctional, neglectful and abusive. My sister told me that my oldest brother had claimed my mother had done something to him as a child, but I don't speak to my brothers so I don't know if this is just second hand information. I told my t for the first time about what ny mum did and she talked about lack of bodily integrity and a 'trauma' response. It's not clear cut to me why she did it or whether it was abusive or 'wrong'. And yes, I mostly didn't need to go, she didn't care and would take me anyway. I've never been able to ask others what they honestly think, because I think it's such an unclear case. I maintain though that if this were a male I would be more convinced of the nature and intent of what was happening.

I value your opinions, would it make a difference to you if it was a male?

[Dog on a Tree]

It shouldn't matter if your father (male) or mother (female) did that to you, it's still the same. So that shouldn't matter. Your brave for speaking about it, so well done to you

I don't have hardly any knowledge of abuse in general, so I'm interested to see what the others forum members say about this.

[Bill3]

Well to me it was clearly a wrong thing to do and it was harmful to you. I think that is true whether or not we call it abuse. In my mind, avoiding that specific label would not change the fact that what she did was wrong and harmful to you.

What would be the effect on you if you knew for sure that it was, or was not, abuse?

[ThingWithFeathers]

Originally Posted by Bill3

Well to me it was clearly a wrong thing to do and it was harmful to you. I think that is true whether or not we call it abuse. In my mind, avoiding that specific label would not change the fact that what she did was wrong and harmful to you.

What would be the effect on you if you knew for sure that it was, or was not, abuse?

I'm not sure what the effect would be ? Hmm ... I guess I've kept it to myself for so long and never looked at and analysed it clearly before, so I'm trying to make sense of it. I guess I'd know what to call it and how to examine it. Until I posted I wasn't even sure any other person would see it as inappropriate or wrong or abusive - I just uncomfortably sat with what I knew happened without any context or framework for it.

I guess I'm interested in what others make if it to help me make sense of it.

[Kalnus]

As a father of a four year old, there are nights that I would wake him around one or two in the morning to take him to use the toilet to prevent him from wetting the bed. Usually one of three would happen:
1 - He would go right away.
2 - He would say he doesn't have to go but ends up going anyway.
3 - He would say he doesn't have to go and I'd leave him in bed depending on what he drank throughout the day.
I can't say if this was your mom's intention with you or not, since you did not provide an age range for when this happened. As for touching you, you did tell her not to and gave an excellent reason why and she ignored that reason. I would consider this to be a form of sexual abuse. Overall, I am very sorry you experienced this.

Originally Posted by ThingWithFeathers

she would tickle me in my private parts. I would tell her 'don't, I don't like it' and try to push her hands away. She would just laugh and giggle and keep doing it.

this bit worries me the most.

[Apathy123]

Originally Posted by Annaflower

this bit worries me the most.

I agree with you Annaflower.

[Babymonster]

Definitely abuse. She shouldn't have touched you like that ever (there is no reason to tickle your childs privates EVER) and you asked her to stop and she didn't.

That is completely inappropriate and I dont give a **** what her intentions were. Ugggh.

And it doesn't matter one iota if she we're a male or female, it was 100% abuse

[ThingWithFeathers]

Thank you everyone for your honest opinions The feedback here has helped me to start putting things into perspective - as difficult as it may be when it actually sinks in. I'm still looking at it intellectually and it hasn't really dawned on me properly yet. I guess I've got more there to talk about and flesh out with my t.

[RainbowG]

My answer is a big fat YES! I can definitely see, though, why there would be confusion. This was covert sexual abuse, in my opinion.

First, I don't agree with people who say that sexual abuse only happens when there are sexual intentions. Often covert sexual abusers are completely unaware of their intentions. My mother would be appalled if she knew I identified myself as a sexual abuse survivor and her as my main abuser. She just thought she was being affectionate.

Second, laughing at your discomfort and ignoring your pleas for her to stop are horrifying. Kudos to Annaflower and Apathy123 for drawing attention to this. My mother did this too. I can't describe the feeling of pain and helplessness when you ask someone not to touch you and they laugh at you and keep doing it. You feel like a complete THING.

I'm so glad you had the courage to post this. Please take it seriously.