[Rojola]

In case anyone is thinking about going to HR with a grievance against your manager think twice.

HR is not your friend.

HR exists to protect the company and therefore are anti-employee by Nature. They pretend to be on both sides but are really only on the side that's paying them.

Most likely what you'll find if you go to HR is a person who will sit and listen to what you have to say as if they care.

You will most likely hear this statement: " thank you for coming to HR and informing us of this matter. HR will investigate this claim and get back to you shortly".

So you go back to you daily work thinking that you have an advocate on your side. Think again.

Sometime later you're called to HR to a meeting room. When you open the door there you find your HR Rep, your boss's boss and your boss with a slight smirk with the file folder.

At that point you realize you've been conned. Fear and depression overtake. You feel like your heart is in your throat beating a mile a minute. You're having a panic attack.

You sit down and HR begins to explain that they reviewed your case and what they really want to discuss is your performance at work.

Your boss begins to explain how you've missed the mark on several occasions and disappointed with your performance. Your manager openes up the file folder looks at his notes and begins to berate you with specific instances that are spinned and twisted and exaggerated to make you look incompetent.

At that point your manager with support of HR writes you up with a final warning. If your performance doesn't improve within 12 months you will be terminated. They hand you a pen to sign the corrective action form and your little meeting is adjourned.

You make your way back to your desk defeated, depressed, angry, afraid. You want to quit that day but your financial obligations prevent you from doing so. For the meantime you're stuck working in hell.

This is not uncommon example of what could happen if you go to HR with a grievance against your manager.

The only way you have any chance of winning is if you have clear proof via video or photos or audio recording that your boss made sexual advances or assaulted you physically or verbally. It has to be something discriminatory or egregious with proof.

Complaining that your boss is mean or unfair or yells or falls short of responsibilities or duties as a leader and coach will get you nowhere.

If your boss is a misanthropic, insufferable jackass it's best to just get a job elsewhere.

Remember ... HR is not your friend.

This happened to me. I told them that since ALL of my MANY years of performance reviews did not indicate the problem with my performance that what they were doing was effectively blaming the whistle blower and there are laws against that. I asked them how they felt about their chances with 10 years of nothing but good reviews to fall back on. They retraced their steps and started taking me more seriously. People have more power than they sometimes realize and sometimes they have less. Figuring out what position you stand in is often the hardest part.

I'm so sorry that happened to you. (((Hugs)))

I'm sorry that you got ganked.

[Travelinglady]

You're right. I'm sorry that happened to you.

[seesaw]

I would remember that you have more power than you think you do as EslaMars has said. I had a similar problem arise, and when something like that started to go down, I pointed to how I was outperforming everyone in the company bringing in revenue.

Also, when you walk into a meeting like that, you have absolutely the power to say, "I want to adjourn this meeting until I can have a representative available to accompany me." Then you find a lawyer or a disability advocate or just a really level headed friend who you introduce as your counsel come with you so they can defend you against the accusations level-headedly.

I think you always have to be really careful about how you go about things with HR, because, yes, they are there to protect the company. You have to be extra careful about documenting and keeping copies of everything.

I had a boss who tried to fire me because I requested information about our company's long term disability policy and how it worked. And he put it in an email. He stupidly put a lot of things that were illegal to say and do in email and I, not only printed them and sent copies to myself and my private email address, but I showed them to HR and our board of directors and said "your CEO is a huge liability and he's illegally trying to fire me for having a disability." I ended up going on long-term disability and leaving the organization, and they never did anything to him. But I did consider suing for discrimination. In the end I was just too tired to deal with it.

I hate to say it, but when you go to HR, you have to be on the defensive, have researched and know your rights, have plenty of documentation, and know how to fight back before a fight ensues.

Start looking for another job.

Seesaw

[eyesclosed]

Employment law is for the employer they have to do something really bad and your fellow employees don't want to get involved. Some company's have spotters they like to know whats going on in all areas.

[Vossie42]

Yikes! I could have written the exact same thing! I had a meeting with my boss to negotiate a higher salary. Instead I got ambushed by HR and my boss's boss. They made mountains out of molehills and put me on probation. I had no idea that I was doing so badly. I'm really flummoxed. But you're absolutely right. HR is not your friend. At best they'll pretend they care and then forget about you. But usually they'll find a way to turn your words against you.

Their real mission--create a paper trail (CYA) showing the company is complying with government regulations so that the company has a way to defend themselves in the courts and against the government.

[Strive4health]

Seesaw is correct. You have to be the person to assert control in that situation, and redirect the focus of your grievance.

I've filed multiple grievances (2 different companies) and neither of them went the way I'd like them to have gone, but they didn't backfire on me terribly. It did however, allow me to establish a paper train on them even though one company tried to counter me by saying I was always tardy (coworkers were able to refute this, but no one listened to them). The other company was more serious. I filed a complaint citing harassing and sexist behavior from my supervisor and it was actually a scary thing to do. Those are not allegations anyone ever wants to make lightly, but the company itself had a paper trail of this supervisor's behavior-- and they did nothing! He still got to work there, and later on I was the one whose position was eliminated from a restructuring.

You have to be the one to know what your rights are and to be very specific about your complaints. I would like to say if there's an issue, the first thing to do is to request a meeting with your supervisor, document it, and take it from there. It is imperative we all take the steps to document our efforts and protect ourselves. If it gets really bad, it is time to find a new job. A lot of workplaces are toxic environments.

[Misssy2]

Originally Posted by Rojola

In case anyone is thinking about going to HR with a grievance against your manager think twice.

HR is not your friend.

HR exists to protect the company and therefore are anti-employee by Nature. They pretend to be on both sides but are really only on the side that's paying them.

Most likely what you'll find if you go to HR is a person who will sit and listen to what you have to say as if they care.

You will most likely hear this statement: " thank you for coming to HR and informing us of this matter. HR will investigate this claim and get back to you shortly".

So you go back to you daily work thinking that you have an advocate on your side. Think again.

Sometime later you're called to HR to a meeting room. When you open the door there you find your HR Rep, your boss's boss and your boss with a slight smirk with the file folder.

At that point you realize you've been conned. Fear and depression overtake. You feel like your heart is in your throat beating a mile a minute. You're having a panic attack.

You sit down and HR begins to explain that they reviewed your case and what they really want to discuss is your performance at work.

Your boss begins to explain how you've missed the mark on several occasions and disappointed with your performance. Your manager openes up the file folder looks at his notes and begins to berate you with specific instances that are spinned and twisted and exaggerated to make you look incompetent.

At that point your manager with support of HR writes you up with a final warning. If your performance doesn't improve within 12 months you will be terminated. They hand you a pen to sign the corrective action form and your little meeting is adjourned.

You make your way back to your desk defeated, depressed, angry, afraid. You want to quit that day but your financial obligations prevent you from doing so. For the meantime you're stuck working in hell.

This is not uncommon example of what could happen if you go to HR with a grievance against your manager.

The only way you have any chance of winning is if you have clear proof via video or photos or audio recording that your boss made sexual advances or assaulted you physically or verbally. It has to be something discriminatory or egregious with proof.

Complaining that your boss is mean or unfair or yells or falls short of responsibilities or duties as a leader and coach will get you nowhere.

If your boss is a misanthropic, insufferable jackass it's best to just get a job elsewhere.

Remember ... HR is not your friend.

However, if you have a sense you are on the way out the door REGARDLESS of if you went to HR or not (writing is on the wall that you are a target)...than GO TO HR.

I say this because it is important if down the line you want a future lawsuit for discrimination, abuse..whichever. I noticed some things about my situation like I was being singled out for errors that everyone was making.

I was approached and told to wear no makeup in an area where it was standard procedure to wear no makeup and I never did (obvious to me another individual in my dept was jealous of me and started to report little things..and must have said she thought I was wearing makeup). There was not a reason for my boss to make that comment to me.

Also, if you ever feel like your boss is having a conversation with you that you feel like is non professional...but not specific...like So and so said that you spend a lot of time on email during your shift. I would ask point blank at that time IS THIS some kind of repramand? Because I don't feel there is reason for it and if it is I would like in writting that my email use is in question!

All these things happened to me and had I reported them to HR...I would have had proof "documentation" that some harassment was going on because I did save specific emails where certain individuals could have been considered as harrassing me. If I brought all my concerns to HR and all my emails and HR knew I had proof? They would know I had a potential lawsuit.

I was not fired from my job but did get a 12 month warning. I like how you describe the feelings because I always felt so alone. I would be the first one to say I deserved the warning if I did deserve it.

I left due to the stress. Once you have a written warning...its time to move on regardless if they drop it or not..because it will always be on your mind..make you make more errors...etc.

It took me about 1.5 years to figure out I could have had a lawsuit against them and when I read about lawsuits..the most important thing someone like me SHOULD have done..was gone to HR to get my side documented!

[leejosepho]

So true, Rojola! I had a supervisor being verbally abusive, and I went to HR to ask what I should do the next time he did that. A day or two later the three of us were there together and the HR guy said something about our being there to review my job description...and I immediately interrupted him and said "No, that is not why I am here!" He then asked about that and I repeated what I had said to him at the very beginning: "I want to know what to do the next time my supervisor verbally abuses me." Within a few minutes I actually did get an admission of error from my supervisor and a promise that he would be more careful in the future, but I have no idea what was written in the report for that meeting.

[misterdonut]

So true. And the entire hiring process is mostly used to "weed out" undesirable applicants. Unfortunately, you can't show any weakness, basically you have to lie and pretend that you're perfect to get hired. I have a hard time with this because I'm modest, honest, I know I have faults and I'm not afraid to talk about them, but this is a kiss of death, so you have to learn to work with the system unfortunately.

[Rojola]

Okay everybody listen up! What I have to say is VERY important!

What everyone must start doing immediately is create a secret file and start documenting your bosses behavior. Every blunder, fumble, ball dropped, missed responsibility, harsh words, emails that can show incompetent, etc. I don't care how small or trivial, document, document, document. Write down the date time and nature of the incident, print and save emails, record and/or video conversations if you can. START A FILE TODAY.

It doesn't matter how much you LOVE working for your boss. Someday he/she may turn on you. Especially if turning on you means saving their job or betterment for him/her.

This file will be crucial if one day you find yourself in a room with HR and your boss with a big smerk on his/her face.

You will have ammunition, proof to counter their arguments.

Start documenting TODAY.

[seesaw]

Originally Posted by Rojola

Okay everybody listen up! What I have to say is VERY important!

What everyone must start doing immediately is create a secret file and start documenting your bosses behavior. Every blunder, fumble, ball dropped, missed responsibility, harsh words, emails that can show incompetent, etc. I don't care how small or trivial, document, document, document. Write down the date time and nature of the incident, print and save emails, record and/or video conversations if you can. START A FILE TODAY.

It doesn't matter how much you LOVE working for your boss. Someday he/she may turn on you. Especially if turning on you means saving their job or betterment for him/her.

This file will be crucial if one day you find yourself in a room with HR and your boss with a big smerk on his/her face.

You will have ammunition, proof to counter their arguments.

Start documenting TODAY.

Sad but true advice. I document everything myself. Fortunatley haven't had anything to document thus far in this job. But in my last one? I had files and files of paperwork.

[leejosepho]

Just let us be certain everyone clearly understands what is to be documented:

Originally Posted by Rojola

...clear proof via video or photos or audio recording that your boss made sexual advances or assaulted you physically or verbally. It has to be something discriminatory or egregious with proof.

Complaining that your boss is mean or unfair or yells or falls short of responsibilities or duties as a leader and coach will get you nowhere.