[Turtle_Rider]

Here a backstory: 4 months ago, I was hired by a small start up company. I was under 3 months probation contract, which pay me under minimum standard, even lower than cleaning service paid in my area. My boss said if I doing good, after 3 months my payment would be raised.

Near the end of the probation, I already asked about my fate in this company. They keep postpone to talk about it. They still want me to work even under the probation over and yeah I still come thinking I am permanently hire. First they promise to talk about the matter in the middle of September, then into the end September, then, on first week on October (now). And yet, still no moves from them.

I really mad when turned out my last payment (which supposed for 4th month) is still same, underpaid.

At this point I really don't know what to do. My question is like this:

1. Am I being impatient/greedy or my rights truly violated?
2. Should I stay or just gone?

I still come and work, but slacking off most of time to prepare my cv and portfolio and googling for job. In the other hand, I still unsure. My pride say to just quit, but I try my best to believe that I'm being impatient simply because I hate job searching.

[rechu]

Wow, your story sounds a lot like my last job. It was also a start-up. I accepted a low salary at first because supposedly after 3 months I'd get a raise.

When the three months were up, I asked him about a raise and he said that things hadn't gone as well as hoped, so I'd have to be patient. A few more months passed and I asked again, he said once we signed another partner company he'd give me a raise, although less than originally promised. He also promised a bonus for completing a specific task. I did the task and he refused to pay the bonus, he said I had misunderstood (he was always gaslighting people). Again when I asked about the raise when another company joined, he told me to be patient. In the meantime he constantly tried to assign me new tasks (for the same money) and would go into a rage when I set boundaries and said no. He wasted a lot of money on worthless things while pleading poverty. He also paid us later and later in the month.

I was there for about a year and a half and finally quit. Besides the money, his anger management issues, verbal abuse and gaslighting got to be too much. Honestly, I think I stayed too long. It was not worth the little money I was making to put up with all that. He seemed to think I wouldn't ask for my last month's payment. I had to fight to get it. I am sure he only paid because he knows my husband is a lawyer.

The last I heard, he has asked people to take pay cuts. A friend bills him for consulting on journalism-related tasks through her company. He used to pay the invoices in 30 days, then it was 60 and now he wants to pay in 90. The last I knew he owed another co-worker a lot of money.

So, to me the way you are being treated is a red flag. It is unlikely to get better, especially with a start-up since most do not make it. My ex-company lost its two biggest member companies and apparently the owner is taking money out of his savings to keep it afloat.

it sounds like you've already started looking for a new job, which is good. I guess whether or not you stay while job hunting depends on how much you need the little money that they are paying you.

As far as my situation, after quitting I was unemployed for about 6 months before I took a freelance job that turned into a permanent job with benefits (ex boss kept everyone as independent contractors to avoid paying benefits). I am making a lot more money and my boss is much more reasonable to deal with. It hasn't been perfect, but it is SO much better, and I no longer am having panic attacks my ex boss used to provoke.

Take care and good luck!

[Turtle_Rider]

Thanks. Sorry that you have same situation too.

I've seen my boss gaslighting and badmouthing too. Only so far there's no anger management and verbal abuse.

I still need money even through it's very little. Furthermore, everytime I come to work, I really unmotivated and resent it.

I guess, I wait this week for their reaction. I would not get new job too fast either.

[seesaw]

Originally Posted by Turtle_Rider

Thanks. Sorry that you have same situation too.

I've seen my boss gaslighting and badmouthing too. Only so far there's no anger management and verbal abuse.

I still need money even through it's very little. Furthermore, everytime I come to work, I really unmotivated and resent it.

I guess, I wait this week for their reaction. I would not get new job too fast either.

I agree with rechu, that it's a serious red flag. I would only stay for the money and knowing that I was actively looking for a new job. I wouldn't hold my breath for that raise they promised you. Honestly, three months pay at the correct rate isn't that much savings so I would have seen that as a red flag. I don't know if your rights were violated, but if you are past the probationary period and they promised you a raise, and they haven't let you go yet, then you are through the probationary period and they owe you that raise. If it's a three month probation and the three months is up, then that's on them. I would tactfully bring it up, stressing that they haven't done any kind of review before your three month probation was up. And that they promised you this raise to the regular rate after probation.

Seesaw

[Turtle_Rider]

Originally Posted by seesaw

I agree with rechu, that it's a serious red flag. I would only stay for the money and knowing that I was actively looking for a new job. I wouldn't hold my breath for that raise they promised you. Honestly, three months pay at the correct rate isn't that much savings so I would have seen that as a red flag. I don't know if your rights were violated, but if you are past the probationary period and they promised you a raise, and they haven't let you go yet, then you are through the probationary period and they owe you that raise. If it's a three month probation and the three months is up, then that's on them. I would tactfully bring it up, stressing that they haven't done any kind of review before your three month probation was up. And that they promised you this raise to the regular rate after probation.

Seesaw

Thanks Seesaw.

Yeah, I've been past the probation times.

I already ask them about my fate even BEFORE the probation ended, but not stressing them too much through. Yet, they have give me self-assessment review near the end of September, when my probation is ALREADY ENDED for 2-3 weeks. I've returned it, and they postpone and said to talk about my review (and probably the raise) at this week. It's Wednesday now, and they still have no moves about it. It stressing me over and over.

I totally fed up. Whenever I ask, they keep saying later. It made me angrier each day.

[Turtle_Rider]

I have ask advice to another friends and reading the articles similar to my problem. After so many advice, I guess my current move is to build up my cv (which I'm doing right now) and applying to another job while I'm still working under their nose. Since job searching won't be easy and fast to get another boat, at the same time I would still wait for their response, but not put my hope too much like I used to. I guess, I have to face my fear again now.

Thanks for suggestion and advice. I still accept any kind of advice through. I'll update soon if I get better job offer or if they manage to response.

[hvert]

I really get the impulse to quit. They are taking advantage. I'd rather have a job cleaning that paid more, working for people who weren't trying to get me to do high paid work for too little.

Instead of just looking for another job (which you definitely should do), could you try to get some backpay out of them? Tell them that your paycheck is still wrong and has been wrong since your probationary period ended, that you need the money today?

[Turtle_Rider]

^that's what I've been trying to do. As I've been written before, they keep postpone the talk with 'busy' excuse.

Yesterday when I asked them, they replied with "next week".

[rechu]

Oh, yeah putting off discussing those things is another tactic people like that use.

My ex boss promised me a bonus if I arranged an international alliance with a company. I set up something where we got free advertising on a website for an important trade fair in the industry in exchange for covering the fair in our newsletter. He called it an alliance and even had the journalist write a note about it for our website.

The next time we had a group meeting, he said we should issue our tax receipts to get paid, so I said, "should I include the bonus for the alliance?" His face turned all red, and in front of everyone he said it didn't count, he meant something like an alliance with a local govenment organizations. He gave examples, but they were all programs for small businesses where you can apply to contests or programs, but you can't just call them up and set up some sort of alliance. So, basically, he changed the rules to where there was no way he would pay the bonus and tried to make me think I had misunderstood. I know what he said.

Then he stuttered and said maybe he could pay me something for what I had done, like he was doing me a favor. I tried to talk with him after the meeting and he evaded me saying he had somewhere to be. The next two meetings he did the same, completely avoided me, ran out of the meetings as soon as they ended to avoid talking to me! After that I quit, so I never did discuss it with him.

It wasn't even that much money. He paid 10 times more to a pastry chef for each one-hour demonstration at some events the company held. In the evaluations atendees filled out, people didn't even like the demonstrations because the guy refused to bring an assistant or do the type of prep work like they do on cooking shows, measuring and chopping things beforehand, so the pace was very slow and people got bored.

[hvert]

I don't know that this would be the best course, just throwing it out there, but what if you demanded the accountant cut you a check immediately? Like, "I need my back pay today or I won't be able to work effective immediately." You could even suggest that the owner write you a personal check and get the money from the business later. Or that they call you when they have your money ready, but you aren't coming back until they do.

It only works if you are acting in an essential role and you are willing to give up the job and reference if they don't bite. It may not be the best course of action, just something else to consider.

[Turtle_Rider]

Originally Posted by hvert

I don't know that this would be the best course, just throwing it out there, but what if you demanded the accountant cut you a check immediately? Like, "I need my back pay today or I won't be able to work effective immediately." You could even suggest that the owner write you a personal check and get the money from the business later. Or that they call you when they have your money ready, but you aren't coming back until they do.

It only works if you are acting in an essential role and you are willing to give up the job and reference if they don't bite. It may not be the best course of action, just something else to consider.

I can't do the accountant advice. The company is small start-up, so the accountant and finance is my boss and his spouse as well. No HR as well.

I'll try to show that I'll out if they'll bit me. Thanks for that advice.

[Turtle_Rider]

Originally Posted by rechu

Oh, yeah putting off discussing those things is another tactic people like that use.

My ex boss promised me a bonus if I arranged an international alliance with a company. I set up something where we got free advertising on a website for an important trade fair in the industry in exchange for covering the fair in our newsletter. He called it an alliance and even had the journalist write a note about it for our website

....

I aware that this is probably his scheme. You're doing great job by humiliating him. Wish I could do that.

One thing that I'm sure, if by this last month he still avoids me and no raise as he promised, I'll wave goodbye.

[GoodVibrations101]

I do not mean to be rude, but your English writing skills have some problems. You have written several grammatically incorrect sentences.

Do you think you should work on your written and spoken English skills (assuming you work in an English-speaking country) so that you communicate in a fully professional manner? I think writing and speaking in correct English is very important for most employers in English-speaking countries in most positions (not all positions).

[seesaw]

Originally Posted by GoodVibrations101

I do not mean to be rude, but your English writing skills have some problems. You have written several grammatically incorrect sentences.

Do you think you should work on your written and spoken English skills (assuming you work in an English-speaking country) so that you communicate in a fully professional manner? I think writing and speaking in correct English is very important for most employers in English-speaking countries in most positions (not all positions).

It's very possible turtle is not in an English speaking country. We have many members from all over the world on PC whose first language is not English.

[Turtle_Rider]

Seesaw is correct. Yeah GoodVibration, english is not my not my native language. I don't communicate with my boss using english.

Thanks for your advice to improve my english skill, only sorry, that advice is totally irrelevant with my work problem.

[rechu]

I got the feeling you were probably not a native English speaker and probably use another language at work. Even if you were working in an English-speaking country, that is in no way an excuse to take advantage of you and not pay you what was promised. Don't pay attention to the comment saying otherwise.

I am in a Spansh-speaking country, but am a native English speaker. It wouldn't be right for my boss to treat me the way he did because of that either. Although in my case, my ex boss was equal opportunity when taking advantage of people. The woman he owes money to and the one he keeps changing the pay terms with are both from here.

Although, he did frequently take advantage of one guy from Venezuela worse than most. He needed to show income to get his permanent residency visa, and he clearly didn't want to go back to Venezuela with all the problems there. Our boss would pile up a lot of extra work on him, things not in his job description, knowing it would be hard for him to say no, since losing his job would hurt his visa application. The poor guy would call me at 7:30 or 8 PM with work questions. He was still at the office working at that time! I heard his visa came through, so he was able to quit and now has a better job.

[Turtle_Rider]

Little Update: He avoid me again. This time, he took vacation until next Monday. He promised me this week.

I said earlier I wait until the end of this month, but I'm really angry and impatient right now. I think I'm done. I regret I ever think and call them nice. I haven't quit yet (as my family ordered me to work until I get new one), but I have sent several applications. I hope I get a call from other better company soon.

I'll increase my slack-off time. I'll try my best to hold my anger. Wish me luck.

[seesaw]

I think you're right on. Look for a new job, stick this one out until you can leave, but don't stop bothering them about the back pay they owe you and changing your pay rate to the one they promised.

Seesaw

[hvert]

Good luck! I hope you find something new soon. It just leaves a bad taste in your mouth to work for a liar.

[Turtle_Rider]

Sorry for late update. We finally spoke up and he raised my payment. Very low raise. It less than my expectation as I stated back then in interview session.

The way he spoke to me make me lost my respect to him. First, he said my work is not good enough. He said I should be paid lower (WTF!), but he took pity on me so he increase my payment a little. Then, he said, "it's still a small company, so we can't pay you higher. Maybe we'll raise you if we get higher profit". He never knows I've been peeking on the invoices and financial journals. I know he can raise higher and it would not hurt his butt.

Maybe I'm too greedy and he's too manipulative after all. I don't change my mind to quit this job soon as I get another job. I'm tired to his lies and plagiarism tendency. I hate to see them faking everything and their lack of respect to other people.