[splitimage]

This is not intended as an AA bashing post, I'm just feeling very frustrated with the attitudes of some AA members. And I know I need to get a new sponsor.

I called my sponsor yesterday to tell her I'm starting rehab today. Me I'm thinking this is a good thing, and that she'll be happy. Nope - she told me in no uncertain terms that I shouldn't be doing it. The problems: This particular rehab is not a 12 step program, I've done it before and it didn't keep me sober so I'm not going to learn anything new and I should just be focussing on AA, and my personal favourite - it keeps me in patient mode which is just an excuse for not working on my character defects. Oh and by the way I shouldn't be on the meds I'm on, most especially not the Naltrexone and Antabuse. Sorry, but my decisions about meds are between me and my Dr., and I like this rehab because it's a real concurrent disorders program which is really hard to find, and I figure I can always learn something new.

Then I went to my AA meeting. The meeting itself was good. But after the meeting, one woman decided to give me unsolicted advice - which was all standard AA lines, which normally I'm ok with except I was already in a foul mood after the conversation with my sponsor. And then she comes out with she thinks I shouldn't be on meds, and that after I've been sober awhile if I work a good program my depression will go away. Sure - I've struggled with depression my entire life even before I started drinking. Thanks to my meds, I'm not suicidal for the first time in as long as I can remember, I haven't self injured in over 2 years although I still want to daily.

I honestly don't get the anti psych meds thing. It even says in the Big Book that some people can benefit from psychiatric help, so to me telling me that I shouldn't be seeing Dr's or taking meds, is not in keeping with the program.

It's stuff like this that really makes me not want to go to meetings.

--splitimage

[Leed]

You know what??? I'd find a DIFFERENT meeting and tell that one where to go!!! You get all kinds of meetings and THAT one stinks!! If ANYONE dared to tell me that I should NOT be on meds, they'd get a piece of my IRISH mind!!! I would probably slit my throat without my meds -- I'm a SEVERE chronic painer as well as have depression -- and i'll take my damn meds as long as I have both!!!

I have gone by the "rules" of AA for the last 18 years and have stayed clean/sober. How can I claim sobriety if I take meds?? Because I take these meds as prescribed and NOT to get high. I've never gotten high once - and never will.

So find yourself another meeting where they aren't so close minded. Some AA'ers are so darn strict, that they don't consider the person - only the RULES. Not me. If you don't consider the person, then what's the use? God bless and take care. Hugs, Lee

Sorry this is happening, splitimage. Be safe.

[gaia67]

I am not a fan of 12 step programs, so I'd be annoyed too. Besy of luck doing what works for you.

[missbelle]

"take what you want and leave the rest".......remember that in your meetings? Remember these are just humans talking to you with their flaws as well. Of course they should not be giving advice either!!!. That is also talked about in meetings. I am a real advocate of the 12 step program My son just finished rehab and my daughter is in rehab although not a 12 step program. I go to Al-anon. I think a 12 step program has advice and tools for anyone.
You have to do what is best for you. Sometimes we don't even know what is best. I agree with trying another meeting or two. They are all different and some people are not as good for us as others might be. ..and some meetings are better then others....you know like church or whatever....we have to find one that fits us!!!!!!

What they say is not law and your sponser dosn't have to always be right. After all they are just people and an alcoholic..same as you..nothing more nothing less

A lot of the old timers in meeting don't believe in meds. I would also find a meeting thats a dual dx meeting. There are some around. They deal with mental illness and alcoholism. My son finished that at a place called Crossroads in Virginia. There might even be that program where you live. It works with people with psychatric disorders and addictions. It right up your alley!!!!
Let me know if you find a good meeting like that!!!
Hugs!!

[madisgram]

you're exactly right, splitimage-outside professional help is absoloutely a-ok. ignore those that tell you otherwise.( bill w. was bipolar!!!) they have not educated themselves enough and have no right to get into this with you. you can quote them the sentence from the big book re "seeking outside help." you already know my length of sobriety so hope you feel vindicated by my comments.
as for the person that gave u unsolicited advice...she was out of line and it wasn't appropriate at all! if it ever happens again you can nicely say, "please don't take my inventory. only i can do that."
not all AA meetings and ppl are alike. why not find another group u enjoy and what i do is not discuss my bipolar, etc. with ppl. the only time i do is if i identify someone that might need outside help and i know them well. i preface it with i'm telling you this in confidence because i've had to seek outside help and i believe it may help you too. that's all i reveal. there are many dummies re meds, etc. so i protect my anonymity re my dx.
if you feel like going into treatment again that is entirely your decision. your sponsor can/should only suggest. hope this reassures you.

[mgran]

I've allowed myself to become completely miserable in the past, when others kept telling me not to take medication for my mental health problems. Of course, I was misdiagnosed at one stage, and the meds did more harm than good, and that seemed to confirm what others were saying. But since I've been on the meds that work for me, this is the kind of thing I've been hearing.
1) All you need to do is stop wallowing in depression and indulging yourself. Depression is a selfish disease, you have to pull yourself out of it. (In other words, depression is your fault.)
2) The hallucinations you've experienced in the past were actually demonic attacks. You don't need to be on meds, you need to be excorcised, or prayed over and have people lay on hands. As you're being afflicted by demons, it's obvious that there's some secret sin in your life. (In other words, psychosis is your fault.)
3) Don't take meds, it's all a conspiracy by big pharma and the medical profession to get people addicted and sell more drugs... they're really experimenting on the population, and seeking to control them. (In other words, they really are out to get you.)
4) Don't take meds, you're not really clean or better if you're on meds, you're really on drugs. (In other words, you're an addict, it's your fault.)

I've heard others, but you get the gist. Blame the victim... this from people who've never had to deal with our problems in their lives. People who think because they feel a bit blue once in a while that they understand clinical depression, or psychoses.

Quite how thinking positive thoughts, being prayed over, and quitting ones meds would help you get through, say, schizoaffective disorder is not explained. These guys have not studied mental illness, seem to think it's a personality flaw, rather than an illness, and have the gall to spout their opinions as fact. An opinion that is based on groundless supposition is in fact a prejudice. These people are prejudiced against the mentally ill. Don't let them get to you.

Really sorry you're having to cope with that.

[splitimage]

Thanks everybody for the support. Leed - I don't need to find another meeting, I actually really like my homegroup - I've been to a lot of different meetings in Toronto, there are something like 600 a week to choose from, and I keep coming back to this meeting. It's a really down to earth group where you can literally share on anything, and there a bit unusual in that they only have closed meetings. Tues night is a step study, and Thurs. night is a step study. I get along well with all the members, its just this past Thurs. one member who only has 2 years of sobriety decided to be "helpfull".

But honestly, it seems to me, that people are trying to make me not want to go to AA. Thurs. night Carol, who's a friend, asked me if I wanted to go to a meeting with her Fri. night. I said I couldn't as that was my night to volunteer down on the telephone support lines at CAMH. I called her today, to set up going for coffee and she lights into me for going to my shift instead of to a meeting - saying it's "easier to look at other people than look at ourselves." FFS - I've been volunteering there for 2.5 years, I'm good at it, the hospital and our regular callers expect me to be there. And believe me spending 3 hours talking to a bunch of addicts and mental health patients is a lot harder than going to an AA meeting.

I agree with the suggestions of looking for some meetings that are for people with mental health and addiction issues. There are some here that I know about, they're called Double Recovery and are a joint venture between the psych hospital & a mental health clubhouse. The only problem is the meetings tend to be at bad times for me, and are often closed and only open to clients of a particular agency. But I'm going to look into it.

In the meantime I'm focussing on rehab and getting to as many AA meetings as I can tolerate - and I'm looking for a new sponsor.

--splitimage

[splitimage]

Since posting, I've been doing some research. I looked into the "Double Recovery" meetings and there are a lot more of them, at different locations and a lot more that are open to everyone - not just clients of a particular agency than the last time I checked. So I'm definitely going to try a few of their meetings in the next couple of weeks. They're 12 step based just for psychiatric consumers.

I also e-mailed world headquarters for Women in Sobriety, to see if they have any meetings in Toronto. I went to one WFS when i was in rehab in Guelph, and didn't really like the meeting, but I wasn't in the best headspace to be objective. So if they have meetings in Toronto, or even Hamilton, I'll probably try them. I like what little I've read about them.

Probably won't ever give up on AA completely - just need to find something that feels like it's a slightly better fit.

--splitimage

[mgran]

I'm glad that you're working on finding out what's right for you... too often when something discouraging happens, there's the temptation to throw your hands up in the air and say, "that's it!" Well, that's how I react too often. I've never been to AA (travel is a real bind where I live, I'm six miles from the nearest town, the meetings are in the evenings, and I have nobody to mind my son... also it being such a parochial little village, the last thing I want is the villagers to find out I've had a problem and start gossiping about me. They already think I'm odd!)

If I ever move to an easier area, I think I'd try AA, it might well help. Anyway, I'm glad that you're looking for a better fit, and I hope you find it.

[embracinglife]

Good luck, I'm sorry you had that bad experience, but it sounds like you're trying to take what happened and turn it into a positive. Trust yourself- if you think you need to go to rehab, do it. And if you want a new sponsor and you think that is best for you, find a new sponsor.

It sounds good that you're already looking into other meetings too. It's nice to have a place you feel comfortable, but might also be nice to widen your horizons. Best of luck.

[Melbadaze]

Originally Posted by splitimage

This is not intended as an AA bashing post, I'm just feeling very frustrated with the attitudes of some AA members. And I know I need to get a new sponsor.

I called my sponsor yesterday to tell her I'm starting rehab today. Me I'm thinking this is a good thing, and that she'll be happy. Nope - she told me in no uncertain terms that I shouldn't be doing it. The problems: This particular rehab is not a 12 step program, I've done it before and it didn't keep me sober so I'm not going to learn anything new and I should just be focussing on AA, and my personal favourite - it keeps me in patient mode which is just an excuse for not working on my character defects. Oh and by the way I shouldn't be on the meds I'm on, most especially not the Naltrexone and Antabuse. Sorry, but my decisions about meds are between me and my Dr., and I like this rehab because it's a real concurrent disorders program which is really hard to find, and I figure I can always learn something new.

Then I went to my AA meeting. The meeting itself was good. But after the meeting, one woman decided to give me unsolicted advice - which was all standard AA lines, which normally I'm ok with except I was already in a foul mood after the conversation with my sponsor. And then she comes out with she thinks I shouldn't be on meds, and that after I've been sober awhile if I work a good program my depression will go away. Sure - I've struggled with depression my entire life even before I started drinking. Thanks to my meds, I'm not suicidal for the first time in as long as I can remember, I haven't self injured in over 2 years although I still want to daily.

I honestly don't get the anti psych meds thing. It even says in the Big Book that some people can benefit from psychiatric help, so to me telling me that I shouldn't be seeing Dr's or taking meds, is not in keeping with the program.

It's stuff like this that really makes me not want to go to meetings.

--splitimage

The thing is with some in AA, they haven't really been "cured", they've just replace the bottle with something else, they haven't opened their minds to anything other then the end of their nose, much like the bottom of the glass they use to get as far as. Have you thought about being your own sponser and doing whatever you feel is right for you? the BB was written by a middle age stock broker that lived the rest of his life with his "other" woman, what his take on what I should do with my life had not interest to me, it was just his take on what he felt he needed to do to stay sober and to keep others buying his book, there is no evidence that AA has any higher success rates that then any other recover help and infact more people just stop drinking and carry on with their lifes then attend AA..its not bashing AA to question it, any good organisation should be able to withstand being looked at. AA attracts control freaks, and narcissists and those with the need to belong to something. If you find another sponser your get the same thing fed to you, there is life without AA, infact I found life without AA to be much more promising and encouraging and freeing, who wants to give up the drink only to be trapped by something else?

[Christina86]

Double Recovery sounds like a great idea to pursue. I hope you can find something that works for you. (BTW, I so wish Ottawa had half the types of meetings larger cities seem to have!)

Unsolicited advice of the sort you're getting can be very detrimental for some, but decent for others. But you know yourself, they don't. Not even your sponsor (btw, I hope you find a sponsor you work better with!). I stopped going to AA b/c I didn't think that alcoholism is my primary problem. I went back to a mtg for a project, and they all still think I'm an alcoholic who's in denial (and I've not drank in over two years!)

"Take what you like and leave the rest" seems to be an appropriate AA slogan here, but it's hard to do when you're getting other opinions crammed down your throat. I'm glad you're doing something that works for you, and not giving up on recovery and not stopping your meds just 'cause someone told you to do so.

Love ya, no matter what.