[Salmacis]

Had a strange session last night @ rehab... The topic of the night involved pointing out things we regretting doing while drunk/high & what we would have done differently.

I'm really not sorry for anything I said or did while drunk/high. They are the same things I would have said/done while sober.

If I'm attacked verbally or physically, I will respond in kind. If a friend is amiable to having a one-nighter, I'm game. It's a bit awkward the next day, but I don't really feel regret or shame.

I'm being told my inability to feel regret or shame for my actions is "stinking thinking," however, I don't see how these feelings have anything to do with my ability to recover. The group seems to be pushing the expectation that sobriety brings about a higher standard of "morality" or "seeing the errors of one's ways," and its really irritating...

Anyone have any thoughts or experiences w/this?

[unaluna]

How to put this - maybe your worst night stoned is at a higher morality level than their average night sober to begin with? So maybe you don't have such a deep hole to climb out of? For instance you imply you are not coercing or tricking someone into bed - so what is so stinking thinking about consenting? The responding if attacked - well, sometimes walking away might be a better choice, why let the other person get a reaction from you just because they're an idiot?

Everyone has regrets, even if they are not problem drinkers. It is natural to have them. Having been through an outpatient rehab program, I can tell you that if you were to tell the group and/or therapist you have no regrets or shame, no one will believe you, it's not possible.

It sounds like this has to do with denial and not any issues with morality. Having regrets is a sign of our human-ness and denying having those feelings is a sign that maybe your illness has taken over your life. Which means you are doing the right thing by continuing to go to therapy. I encourage you to keep an open mind. Woody Allen says that 90% of success is just showing up. So, keep showing up. I wish you well.

[Perna]

Why are you trying to recover? Sounds like your life is similar whether drunk/high or not? Or, why do you spend money to get drunk/high?

I posit that something changes for you; maybe some actions are easier that are best not easy (unprotected sex/not thinking through the personal or emotional ramifications for you or the other person; not keeping some appointments/promises made to others or yourself; driving or doing other "dangerous" things under the influence and putting your life and others in danger) or time and money is wasted that could be applied to more "worthwhile" pursuits?

[Salmacis]

Thanks for the input, Hankster, Gulas & Perna!

"The responding if attacked - well, sometimes walking away might be a better choice, why let the other person get a reaction from you just because they're an idiot?"

I used to be the kind of person (when I was very young) that I would be avoidant or just walk away... but over time, I've become very angry about being pushed around by arseholes. I know it's probably what I should do... but pride tends to prevail. Ugh. I agree about the consenting adult thing - which is why their idea of "morality" confuses me. I'm not about to rape anyone or attack anyone (unprovoked), so I don't understand why I should feel I did anything wrong...

"It sounds like this has to do with denial and not any issues with morality."

A very good point... I can't exactly deny that I'm in denial. LOL I guess I'm just impatient for the positive results of not using/drinking... I'll definitely stick w/it. One thing my counselor told me was that the adventure of being sober is that there will be new things to experience - whereas, I know exactly where I'll end up if I keep using...

Insofar as regret, guilt & shame, it was always kind of my philosophy that these are useless emotions as they change nothing about what has already been done. Denial of feelings? Maybe. However, it's hard for me to sustain any feeling (other than anger) for a long period of time. I'm hoping the shrink can help me sort that one out...

"Why are you trying to recover? Sounds like your life is similar whether drunk/high or not? Or, why do you spend money to get drunk/high?"

To be honest, I'm quitting because I'm sick & tired of being sick & tired. I'm tired of being too incapacitated to do my own shopping, or make big decisions, or take care of personal business. I always pay my bills & show up for work on time. It's my personal life that suffers - friends, relationships, personal goals (losing weight, writing more music, renovating the house, etc.).

Or maybe I wanted to quit because it's something I've yet to experience (life on life's terms). And, yeah, I'd much rather be spending my money on music equipment than on drugs/alcohol...

Salmacis

[Willcat]

I am of the mind that living alcohol free is without conditions of 'morality' or regret. One can be or feel as they please and still stop all drinking for good.

Got to run but would like to come back to your query/question latter.

[Gus1234U]

aren't ethics and morality the foundations of the "good life" ?? if not, then what is good? being ethical (not lying, cheating, stealing, screwing around, slandering, wasting, deceiving, etc.) is what one wants in a friend... who better to be a friend than oneself ? if you can honestly say that you are living an ethical life, then you cannot be addicted to those things which make you incompetent, is my opinion. best wishes on your insights,, Gus

[Willcat]

SMART Recovery and the AVRT of Rational Recovery deals directly with stopping active addiction alone. Once drinking/drugging has been arrested then one can decide if they want to work on personal issues.

When I first entered addiction recovery, the recovery modality I was exposed to had me working on everything under the sun regarding my life. It was confusing to me because I just wanted to stop using drugs. Unfortunately the constant confusion caused me to relapse time after time.

With SMART and AVRT I was able to focus on stopping the drug use and then I could evaluate my life to see what changes I would like to make or not. To me that was a simpler process than examining my entire life wile trying to stop drug use.

I do acknowledge that positively changing how I interact with the world and others in it makes life less stressful. As I understand that stress can be a big reason that relapses back into active addiction happen.

Here are some links to the recovery resources I use for addiction treatment:

SMART Tools and Articles

Rational Recovery: The New Cure for Substance Addiction. By Jack Trimpey.
(Google book preview including the Addiction Voice Recognition Technique or the AVRT)

[Salmacis]

Many thanks for those links, Will! :-)

[Willcat]

Your welcome Salmacis. Wishing you much success in your new sober lifestyle.

[Sanguinaire]

Originally Posted by Salmacis

Had a strange session last night @ rehab... The topic of the night involved pointing out things we regretting doing while drunk/high & what we would have done differently.

I'm really not sorry for anything I said or did while drunk/high. They are the same things I would have said/done while sober.

If I'm attacked verbally or physically, I will respond in kind. If a friend is amiable to having a one-nighter, I'm game. It's a bit awkward the next day, but I don't really feel regret or shame.

I'm being told my inability to feel regret or shame for my actions is "stinking thinking," however, I don't see how these feelings have anything to do with my ability to recover. The group seems to be pushing the expectation that sobriety brings about a higher standard of "morality" or "seeing the errors of one's ways," and its really irritating...

Anyone have any thoughts or experiences w/this?

i dont thinkso...
cause although its ur fault for being high/drunk...its not like you really had a consience on whatever you were saying while high. And, i honestly dont find alchol/drugs "immoral"..more like "unhealthy",

[Tosspot]

As far as I am concerned substance use/abuse/dependence etc. is not a question of morality.

When I decided to get sober it wasn't because i said to myself "oh wow by morals suck" it was becuase I had lost myself and hit bottom.

Happy sobering