Originally Posted by zinco14532323

@sunshine1995 I think you have a big misconception of what AA is all about. AA does not want to be considered anything by anyone. They do not recruit as an organization. They may bring meetings to a youth camp or jail but that is to share their experience and what worked for them. Someone may decide that they want to try it.

If 25 states have really called it a religious organization I will bet you anything it is because AA takes in money to pay rent, electric, and buy literature. I am quite sure they have never applied for non profit status and I am sure the IRS is trying to figure out what box to put them in. AA seeks to not be involved in politics or outside affairs. The courts have forced the issue of mandatory meetings and not much AA can do about it. It is very loosely organized.

If sex offenders are preying on AA as a feeding ground that is horrible and makes me very angry. The only requirement for membership is a desire to stop drinking. Anyone can come in and say that or not even say that and they are not going to get kicked out. They welcome anyone who walks it. They are not the police. I am sure if more experienced members are told something is going on they would call the police. Sex offenders also become teacher just for the reason of being around kids. That is not the fault of the teaching profession even though it may reflect badly on it. People become priest for the same reason. The Catholic church was in a position to do something about it, they can fire or excommunicate priest, but they chose to cover it up. AA cannot fire people or kick them out. They are not organized that way. They can call the police if they suspect crime.

There are some unwritten rules within AA as part of the culture. Men work with men and women work with women. That one is a strong one. You do not ask a girl out until she has a year sober. Experienced men will tell this to newer men who are hitting on a newcomer. No one should even get into a relationship until they have a year sober. My sponsors and experienced men told me that if I asked a girl out to have coffee and dinner with her for six months before even trying to have sex. The women stick together like glue and watch out for each other. There are unwritten rules and guidelines that are a part of the culture. Not everyone is going to follow them. There is no enforcement police. If sex offenders are using AA and committing crimes than members should call the police and I am sure they do.

AA is a philosophy not a religion. Its roots are christian and some of those traditions like the lords prayer have carried through. But it is totally up to the member to decide what spiritual believes they adopt. They can be atheist and use the group as their higher power for instance. The philosophy as it is written is the same in all groups but the groups themselves are going to vary widely based on local culture.

AA seeks to be anonymous and it primary purpose is to help alcoholics, period. It has a holistic approach to doing this based on personal and spiritual growth. That's how you stay sober. If you son's father is not a good father it has nothing to do with AA. It means he didn't adopt the lessons of AA. AA would teach him it is his responsibility to be financially and emotionally available to his son. If he chooses not to do that it is on him not AA.

Morality is something you are taught from somewhere. Some people are not taught it at all. AA is based on a common set of morals or spiritual principles. I think any segment of society or religion would agree with them. They are common. Honesty, trust, responsibility and the like. Anyone is free to join and agree with them or not.

It is not fair to judge AA and its philosophy on the behaviour of some of its members. There are some very sick people who have much bigger problems than alcoholism that come to AA. We are always encouraged to get whatever outside help we need be it physical or mental. The philosophy is to be good to yourself and take care of yourself and love yourself and others. It is not AA's job to cure mental illness although people with mental illness can be greatly helped in AA. AA's job is to help people get clean and sober and stay that way. It has been hugely successful for decades.

If you hate it that is fine. But to fear monger and make broad statements without knowledge (it would seem) disparaging AA is not fair. If it doesn't work for you that is fine. It works for me. I am not brain washed in the slightest. I freely chose to adopt the philosophy. My friend I mentioned earlier and is struggling has learned about AA to a degree and is probably going to choose not to adopt it and find another way.

AA is one way. Can't we talk about other ways without trashing AA?

Sorry I read a little of your message but from what I read u are wrong. I bet I know more about aas beginnings and history and all the front groups it uses to get funding. You need to learn more about the organization ur involved in...seriously.

And telling the truth about an organization is not bashing. I've been studying addiction for over 20 yrs. If u want u can respond, but I doubt I'll read it. Good luck.

[Altered Moment]

Are you sure you want to reveal so much about the secrets of AA? They have a secret police you know.

Side Note - Did you know men never really did walk on the moon? It was all staged in Hollywood.

[waggiedog]

Hello and good evening to everyone. Oh dear Oh dear, what I've been reading lately is VERY worrying. However, I live in the UK, a small village in the South East. I ''was'' an alcoholic twenty or so years ago. I say was, as apparently there's no such thing as a ''was'', it seems that even if you never drink another drink again, it remains you are still alcoholic, its just that you are abstinent TODAY! Yes, I agree with that entirely as I've had a couple of falls from the waggon lately. I'm happily on the waggon again and also on a de~tox/re~hab from strong painkiller drugs, it's a good long term programme and if I wanted, they would also help me with my drink issues. I figured I can't do the drugs programme without the substute drug which they prescribe to stop withdrawl symptoms. The drink I've stopped dead, it's not dangerous as I wasn't yet on spirits and wasn't drinking stupid amounts. I've decided to start driving the car again so this has made me stop dead in my tracks, I would NEVER EVER drink and drive. I wouldn't even have half a glass of wine and drive, my body weight is low and half a glass could show. So, alcohol may be delt with but it just shows, you can NEVER rest up and think you've kicked it and you will be alcohol free for ever, you have to work at it everyday. I drink and mess with drugs when I get very depressed and I get to that stage too often, this is why I fall down from the waggon sometimes. The point I really wanted to make in the beginning of this message, is that AA meetings in the UK seem all above board. However, I'm talking of someone who attends meetings in my little village, not in big towns or even London. Maybe some of the issues (the bad ones) do occur in certain areas of the UK, but in the three local AA meetings I go to or have been to, no funny business! Sometimes I try out AA in other areas, in small towns, I haven't suspected anything. I guess where there are vulnerable folk who are down and need support, there's always gonna be the dregs of society who will prey on them, disgusting as it is. I am not religious but I just ''go with the flow'' on the praying thing!! HUGS to you all.

Originally Posted by zinco14532323

Are you sure you want to reveal so much about the secrets of AA? They have a secret police you know.

Side Note - Did you know men never really did walk on the moon? It was all staged in Hollywood.

Lol, u have much to learn. Read some biographies on Bill Wilson and how he took lsd when he had his great divine experience, it's all quite comical. Or how about how much Bill cheated, that's quite funny too. I could go on and on. Dr Bob taking pills before performing surgery is also in some AA approved literature. I'll find the books for u. There all AA approved literature.

[Altered Moment]

It would have been rather difficult for Bill to take LSD when he got sober in 1934 when LSD was discovered in 1938, and the psychedelic properties were not known util 1943.

The history doesn't matter unless you are into that. The fact of the matter is AA is a proven method for alcoholics to get and stay sober. Millions of members today all over the world. It works. That is why so many other groups modeled themselves after it. If you are a hard core alcoholic who wants to get and stay sober AA is a proven method. Period. End of story.

[emgreen]

Originally Posted by zinco14532323

The history doesn't matter unless you are into that. The fact of the matter is AA is a proven method for alcoholics to get and stay sober.

Bill W. did take LSD when it was being tested as a treatment for depression & he also allegedly had an affair with a woman in the program. So what? As zinco has repeatedly written, AA works & is by no means a religious program; Bill W. was just another member of it (& I don't buy the "cult of Bill W." that sometimes goes on).

The only step you have to take 100% each day is Step 1: We admitted we were powerless over alcohol -- that our lives had become unmanageable. Despite the fact I've worked the steps, if you can attest to the fact that you're powerless & unmanageable that's all it takes. It works for me & for millions of others.

[Altered Moment]

She is referring to his fourth stay in Town's hospital where the doc gave him the Belladonna cure which contained a hullucinigen that is when he had a spiritual experience. It was not LSD. LSD is still being studied today as a treatment for depression. Many many people have spiritual experiences and we can argue till the cows come home whether they are real or not. It doesn't matter. It only matters if they are real to the person who experiences it. I have had my share and I couldn't even attempt to explain them here. No one had ever claimed alcoholics are morally perfect. We in AA work on personal and spiritual growth to stay sober but we fall short.

It has made millions of peoples lives so much better. Just a fact.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[emgreen]

I stand corrected.

[notz]

Had a drinking dream, only I was opening beers for a party and didn't drink nor wanted to. Funny how dreams are. Do you get drinking dreams?

[Altered Moment]

I had them all the time. Very scary. Wake up and think you relapsed. I still have them 19 years later.

[Christina86]

Reminder to everyone: This is NOT the place to discuss the merits of AA or any program. It is a CHECK-IN thread only, to discuss how you're currently feeling or dealing with your addictions.

Discussions and debates on the merits of AA are not really supportive, as it works for some people but not for others. So please cease discussion on the pros/cons of AA and other 12-step programs.

[gma45]

I am alive and well! Have not drank or drugged in well over a year maybe two. Feeling better everyday. Still dealing with the depression though. I am back on ins. and have an appt next week to get some help with the depression finally.

[notz]

Grateful.......

[glok]

I too am grateful for the addictions I have let go of. Caffeine now is the culprit I am working on.

[Outcast_of_RGaol]

I'm needing to make a commitment to stop drinking... again. I'm not sure about online support but thought I could at least make an open declaration right here, I got a problem and need to deal with it.

[roads]

I'm grateful for PC and my friends who are helping me through another nightmare night. Neither of my pdocs returned my calls today/night, but my therapy cat has been hanging out with me--also PC friends when I've been able to get online.
Lots of thunderstorms in FL, so I've been offline more than on. Guardian angel, friends (not all human), PC has kept me alive and persevering.
Thank you so much.
roads

[glok]

Unfortunately, a rather sedentary day.

[waggiedog]

Hi everybody and well done!! I'm a month into my de~tox/re~hab and haven't so much as thought the drink and drugs I'm not having. Yes, I'm on a programme which uses a substitute meds instead of the drug I was ''into'', but I CAN DO this. I've beaten it before and I'll do it again. Still, I'm being ''careful''.

D

[Outcast_of_RGaol]

WTG Waggie!

[Outcast_of_RGaol]

Day two for me... doing good so far.

[roads]

Thank you all for posting here. You let me relive my first sober day then few days, the several years of hard work that I threw out back in 1991 when my mom died and I discovered my dad in midst age Alzheimer's & hating me--believing I could have prevented her death. My dad had already started drinking heavily with my mother in hospital, when I got off the plane in Tampa, having flown out of San Francisco and took a cab home after midnight.

After her death, my dad has a case of liquor delivered to him at their condo. I went out and bought my own quart or two of scotch and we sat there in separate rooms, both drinking and saying/hearing the worst thing family can say to each other. I was all my dad had now, and I chose scotch over him and drank away 20 yrs sobriety because I didn't like the reality I'd found myself suddenly living.

That's what's so wonderful to me about this website and this Forum. And the Internet.

Thanks, guys & gals. I'm less manic tonight, having gotten about 2.5 hrs uninterrupted sleep this evening. It's been a horrific four days since Friday--but no alcohol & no tobacco. Because of a few friends IRL & my support on this site.

roads

[gma45]

Hi Roads I have been thinking about you. Glad to see you still here. I have been alright no drinking or drugs for this gal. Sending big hugs your way.(((((((((((((Roads)))))))))))))) I hope you can get some more rest and be good to yourself, You are worth it!

[glok]

Stopped using the toxic brew in 1982. I often drank alone ... pounding them down.

[roads]

Good for you, glok. I stopped in 1981, the first time. Realized I was an alcoholic and so were most people in my family. Kept puffing on the cigs, though. Stayed off the sauce ten years.
Second time I quit smoking, then quit drinking a few months later. I think for me it's a Medusa sort of thing. I can become addicted to anything--had to withdraw from Blistex ointment. I used it for fever blisters, but gradually both lips required a thin film of it all the time or they'd crack and bleed. Now I switch brands, change routines, try to keep from becoming dependent on only one answer for anything.

The addicted personality. Let one arm (even a harmless one) of my medusa have free reign, and I'll end up contemplating a trip to the liquor store, like I did this weekend.

I noticed your status line, glok. My cat's acaudate. A Manx.

Hope life's good for you, glok. Take care, y'all.

roads

[waggiedog]

Originally Posted by Outcast_of_RGaol

Day two for me... doing good so far.

Hay Outcast_of_RGaol and THANKYOU SO MUCH HUN!

Keep up your good work too, hard as it is. XXXXXX HUGS.