[Patagonia]

I've been trying to find some answers to several questions I have about it. Google is not helping. If anyone is Very familiar with this drug please PM me.
It's about long term use, like 20 yrs.
Thanks

[junkDNA]

Originally Posted by Patagonia

I've been trying to find some answers to several questions I have about it. Google is not helping. If anyone is Very familiar with this drug please PM me.
It's about long term use, like 20 yrs.
Thanks

You can pm me

[Patagonia]

I have another question if someone could help that would be great.

How soon after you take meth does the craving start? How long can a person "last" before they start withdraw symptoms.

This person has been using for over a decade although they tell me it's in very small amounts.....sigh.
I can usually tell when they r low or out of stim bec of the depressed nature.

Then a resurgence. So I guess using again?
This past time they told me "as characteristic, no 'withdrawal' per say just need for sleep."

Then I hear about the past 4 days they slept 20 hrs a day.

So is this true about withdrawal? It's just all sleep? Bec I've read about craving although they say there is none.....find that hard to believe in a long time user.

And yes I know most r lies.... I just need to base things on fact. So thanks for your help!!

I was an avid meth user and what I've come to understand is that the body requieres x amount of rest per day governed by the bio clock. When a user stays up...the body keeps tabs on sleep missed, and when the drug runs out....the body makes up for the lost sleep. I've went to bed Monday and got up Wednesday afternoon before. When I don't get all the rest needed...I'm in a cloud...dazed...until the sleep is caught up. I usually have to sleep 12-14 hour nights and eventually I'll be back to normal.

I can't say there is any real withdrawl pains...just depression which is normal for coming off of stimulant high. As far as addiction goes...their is a psychological urge to use again. If I can quit thinking of it as how much fun it's going to be...the feelibg goes away.

But I'm also a multiple and I'm not the only user in this body, and I'm coming to find out that my experiences just aren't quite the same as other people.

[Patagonia]

So this person is telling me the truth that they don't really have a withdraw. Just a ton of sleep & feeling depressed.....?
This doesn't sound as bad as all the stuff I read on the internet.

Originally Posted by Patagonia

So this person is telling me the truth that they don't really have a withdraw. Just a ton of sleep & feeling depressed.....?
This doesn't sound as bad as all the stuff I read on the internet.

It's bad. Meth causes bone loss, brain damage by burning holes through the brain, loss of appetite and weight, sores, twitches, permanent change in brain waves, break out in handcuffs, tooth loss, bleeding gums, premature aging, body odor, loss of children, tweeking, fear, psychosis, suicidal tendecies, twitching, uncontrollable use, enlarged heart, cashless, homeless, stupidity, std's (not all but going there not hard at all), stroke, heart attack, seizures, death....

Sure...play with fire and say that will never happen to you....so did all the dead ones and the ones in prison.

[Patagonia]

I just don't know how to broach this subject with this person. I've seen some of these signs. But I also know that lies can be told to cover others.
I know this person will not stop using but keeps telling me "how little" they use. Enough to stay wired, run for days to do work & then they crash.
I know this is an addiction so why would I mention all this to them?

Well, one part says bec what if this person dies while with me!

Another part says well I knew this addiction was there from the beginning & im only really fully seeing it now....bec I'm actively looking. But it won't change things.
Another part just says ignore it, it's their issue, move on.

Idk how to think about this bec from what I've learned about people with addictions this bad is that there is no room for ANYTHING else in their life....but the drug.

And then I think....what if I'm wrong?

Originally Posted by Patagonia

I just don't know how to broach this subject with this person. I've seen some of these signs. But I also know that lies can be told to cover others.
I know this person will not stop using but keeps telling me "how little" they use. Enough to stay wired, run for days to do work & then they crash.
I know this is an addiction so why would I mention all this to them?

Well, one part says bec what if this person dies while with me!

Another part says well I knew this addiction was there from the beginning & im only really fully seeing it now....bec I'm actively looking. But it won't change things.
Another part just says ignore it, it's their issue, move on.

Idk how to think about this bec from what I've learned about people with addictions this bad is that there is no room for ANYTHING else in their life....but the drug.

And then I think....what if I'm wrong?

Sometimes all you can do is let them hit rock bottom before they will ask for help. Staying up for days and doing a little bit? Yeah right. The tireder you get the more you do just to keep going.

The best you can do is be clean and happy as an example of clean (?) living. But if it begins to tempt you...I'd be honest and say you can't be around it. They most likely will pick drugs over friendship and cop a resentment. All you can do is keep up your side of the street.

If you decide to say something...say it just once as a statement and drop it because all it will do is make your friend resent you.

[Patagonia]

I have no desire to touch the stuff thankfully. But I'd like to keep this so called "friendship." But after 13 days of occasionally chatting & hearing all about them & never once saying 'hey, how are you doing?' That's really not a friendship at all!
All I hear is about their narcissistic selves & these "great" plans they have...when in reality, they don't do any of them.

I really need to walk away. I know that. But I'm lonely for anyone who will give me a glimpse of attention. Just a great arrangement.

[Sarahas]

I have a tendency to date addicts, i myself was a meth user and from the sounds of it youre friend is using a lot we will say anything to minimize what were doing because others tend to make a big deal and were forced to see it. Lie minimize and hide it so attention isn't being put on drug use..i have been off meth for years, and i am not sure about any withdraw symptoms but i can tell you the come down off meth had me wanting to kill myself, the sadness, paranoia and depression, mood swings..i would just keep high so i didn't have to come down. once i did, i slept...if i could..there were times i was sleep deprived i just cried until i could finally fall asleep.

[RichardJ]

Patagonia, I am a recovering addict. Not meth, Opiates. I know lots of recovering meth addicts..

I can tell you that addicts lie. I used to lie about stuff I didn't even need to lie about, compulsively .. no idea why. It was like I was honing my skills.

Addicts are self centered to the core and manipulative. They can also be exciting and alluring, but a using addict is gonna hurt you. In active addiction and even in the first few years clean, I would pretend to care about others so they would like me. I was lonely because I was only interested in me, and craved attention..

Being an addict, clean or sober is a hard life. There are things we can do to change and make it better .. fuller.. It sounds like your friend is a ways away from happy..

Sorry

[Patagonia]

"I would pretend to care about others so they would like me. I was lonely bec I was only interested in me, & craved attention."
Wow! Reading that really hurt. Thank you for the truth. I do think this person craves attention & is only interested in his self. Problem is I crave his attention too. He seemed to understand me when others have not...& I miss that terribly.

He's told me that he would like to "cut back, but has no intention of stopping."
This tells me that it is the main focus of his life & will continue to be. I will never be the focus. I will never have the attention from him that I desire.

Thank you.

[Mygrandjourney]

Originally Posted by Patagonia

I have another question if someone could help that would be great.

How soon after you take meth does the craving start? How long can a person "last" before they start withdraw symptoms.

This person has been using for over a decade although they tell me it's in very small amounts.....sigh.
I can usually tell when they r low or out of stim bec of the depressed nature.

Then a resurgence. So I guess using again?
This past time they told me "as characteristic, no 'withdrawal' per say just need for sleep."

Then I hear about the past 4 days they slept 20 hrs a day.

So is this true about withdrawal? It's just all sleep? Bec I've read about craving although they say there is none.....find that hard to believe in a long time user.

And yes I know most r lies.... I just need to base things on fact. So thanks for your help!!

There is acute and post acute withdrawal. The acute phase usually lasts up to one week and encompasses most of the physical issues related to withdrawal, which usually are a mirror/opposite of the intoxicating effect of the drug. So, the withdrawal from a stimulant like meth, would be extreme fatigue. The post acute phase involves the psychological elements, like cravings. So, you may sleep for a while and be surly, but that will pass. Then comes the hard part....

[RichardJ]

Most "Tweakers" or meth users I know fell into staying up for 48 - 72 hours without sleep. The drug is so powerful that even after 3 days of no sleep, they usually need something to knock them out, (unless they run out and crash).. Its not uncommon for them to use Anti Psychotic med's or Heroin to get some sleep.

Its common to sleep 48 hours or more, wake up depressed and with strong cravings, and immediately go out and find more Meth.

Not all meth users are like that, but most end up that way .. Its progressive, it never slowly gets better.

[Patagonia]

Well they seem to be in the sleep phase. Sullen, snarky & depressed. Oh great!
Guess I'll see how this month goes....
Thanks!!

[zzzsmokeyzzz]

Everyone on drugs or alcohol will downplay their usage. Always a good thing to remember. Also if they don't want to stop for themselves they are not going to quit for you. My opinion

[Patagonia]

They tell me that millions have done done it & it's never caused any permanent harm.
That all the studies out r produced by scare mongers, funded by pharmaceutical companies & dosages r all wrong for the experiments. Most r done on rats & monkeys.
That the rehab facilities r the ones making millions of dollars on a process that won't really work.
They are cutting back to catch up on sleep, but will not stop & have no real intention of stopping.
That there is no real proof of the way they r using it is harmful. It benefits the lifestyle they r living. That I'm looking at all the information wrong & judging them falsely. Oh & they r stopping for me to prove to me that it can be done.
To me, this sets me up for the perfect person to blame.
I just can't stand all these head games.

Originally Posted by Patagonia

They tell me that millions have done done it & it's never caused any permanent harm.
That all the studies out r produced by scare mongers, funded by pharmaceutical companies & dosages r all wrong for the experiments. Most r done on rats & monkeys.
That the rehab facilities r the ones making millions of dollars on a process that won't really work.
They are cutting back to catch up on sleep, but will not stop & have no real intention of stopping.
That there is no real proof of the way they r using it is harmful. It benefits the lifestyle they r living. That I'm looking at all the information wrong & judging them falsely. Oh & they r stopping for me to prove to me that it can be done.
To me, this sets me up for the perfect person to blame.
I just can't stand all these head games.

Run....it sounds like you are being sucked into their living disease of addiction.

Addiction isn't a thing like syphillus or chicken pox...it's a life cancer that eats at your mind, body, and soul.

It envelopes and incorporates everything that you do. You end up worshipping the drug building a life around the drug....eventually the drug is the most important thing in life....it's fingers/tentacles invade social, personal, romantic, and personal life.

Drugs are dark but always alluring....

Be not deceived.

You are sounding to be drawn....it's a whole new world of existence that can totally change everything.

Been there done that. Made it out. Run.

[mccarrolmike]

Patagonia, what type of questions? I have a lot experience with that substance.
Perhaps, I can help.

[mccarrolmike]

Originally Posted by AlwaysChanging2

It's bad. Meth causes bone loss, brain damage by burning holes through the brain, loss of appetite and weight, sores, twitches, permanent change in brain waves, break out in handcuffs, tooth loss, bleeding gums, premature aging, body odor, loss of children, tweeking, fear, psychosis, suicidal tendecies, twitching, uncontrollable use, enlarged heart, cashless, homeless, stupidity, std's (not all but going there not hard at all), stroke, heart attack, seizures, death....

Sure...play with fire and say that will never happen to you....so did all the dead ones and the ones in prison.

It feels great not having this addiction, doesn't it?
A standing ovation for you, friend

[Patagonia]

Originally Posted by mccarrolmike

Patagonia, what type of questions? I have a lot experience with that substance.
Perhaps, I can help.

Thanks. After studying & understanding this more & this person....I guess my question is when will this person die & get out of my life bec that's what's going to happen.
This person may have cut back for a week, but the tell tale signs r all back.
They won't leave this drug. They are in love with it, not me & I won't ever replace it.
So if I just knew when to say goodbye....it'd be nice to know for sticking around

[mccarrolmike]

Originally Posted by Patagonia

Thanks. After studying & understanding this more & this person....I guess my question is when will this person die & get out of my life bec that's what's going to happen.
This person may have cut back for a week, but the tell tale signs r all back.
They won't leave this drug. They are in love with it, not me & I won't ever replace it.
So if I just knew when to say goodbye....it'd be nice to know for sticking around

Speed kills but not quickly.
I've known users that have used over 20 years.
So, it's basically how is natural health is. Cardiovascular disease. A strong good liver.
Because if he has a cardiovascular disease, and not know it, his heart can stop.
Who is this person?
They won't leave until you tell them to
But the can be dangerous. They can get vengeful on you and harm you.
It's a sticky situation.
My friend.

[Patagonia]

I'm sorry. That last post was ugly & the situation fills me with anger.
I'd just like more from him but in reality he's created his own safe world with his use. And that will ultimately come first.
Yes I can walk away. No problem. I'm just not very strong to do it. And he'd let me walk. No harm, no foul.
And I'm no innocent bystander either. I have my own issues I avoid in my own MH area. And I use modafinil to stay on course. But I know I could let go of it if I had to or couldn't afford it anymore.
It's just hard to watch. I enjoy his company when I turn a blind but it's getting harder to do that.

Maybe my next question is how do some people do that. Live with someone who has an addiction issue & stay. How exactly does that work? I know people do it, but isn't it always lopsided? Isn't one person always the taker & the other the receiver?
Idk. Sorry. Frustrated to understand better

[mccarrolmike]

Originally Posted by Patagonia

I'm sorry. That last post was ugly & the situation fills me with anger.
I'd just like more from him but in reality he's created his own safe world with his use. And that will ultimately come first.
Yes I can walk away. No problem. I'm just not very strong to do it. And he'd let me walk. No harm, no foul.
And I'm no innocent bystander either. I have my own issues I avoid in my own MH area. And I use modafinil to stay on course. But I know I could let go of it if I had to or couldn't afford it anymore.
It's just hard to watch. I enjoy his company when I turn a blind but it's getting harder to do that.

Maybe my next question is how do some people do that. Live with someone who has an addiction issue & stay. How exactly does that work? I know people do it, but isn't it always lopsided? Isn't one person always the taker & the other the receiver?
Idk. Sorry. Frustrated to understand better

Sorry for what you are going through. You may eventually, on one tired day, get tempted to try meth.
And the chances are high that you may probably love it.
Then comes the following part:
Do you have anymore?

[mccarrolmike]

Or am I missing the point?