TRIGGER. Groups AA and NA

I want to know if anyone feels the same way about these groups as I do. I personally do not have an addiction problems but several of my loved ones do. For instance my sister is currently in rehab for the 14th time for a heroin addiction. When she's done rehab she has to go to NA I think 3 times a week (it will be part of her probation). What I never got is... Why the heck would you send a user to be with a group full of users. I've watched her go through this cycle so many times and I don't know how many more chances she's going to get. She comes home from rehab (which she always does so great in), goes to her NA meeting (like she's supposed to), meets another user and they relapse together. I thought you were supposed to disassociate yourself from tempting or triggering situation. Please can someone tell me if NA or AA works for anyone. Or do think it does more harm then good?

I appoligize if this offends anyone in anyway, I'm just afraid for my sister.

I'm not sure if AA/NA is a trigger for using...though I am not keen on AA, I'd never seen it as a trigger, I think if you want to use and want to find someone to use with yoiu then thats what your going to do/find, but if your serious about wanting to sober/clean then I don't see anything stopping that...at the end of the day, life is full of triggers for addicts...

Hi vetswife.

Simple axiom...No one will get better from anything unless they want to...

It is really no more complicated than that. However,,sometimes even when we want to,,we don't and that is usually with ailments that are outside of our control. Personal addictions do not fall into that category.

AA/NA/OA/GA are programs of attraction,,not promotion. There are no marketing campaigns,,though as you allude,,there are expectations brought on by the justice system that require attendance. Sometimes a seed planted will sprout and the justice sustem is as frustrated with addiction issues as the cultures they serve..

Recovery from addiction requires a profound willingness by the sufferer. With this change in the battle with a substance(s) anything is possible via a multitude of recovery options. I don't know how to gift this willingness. I wish I did.

In all of these programs there are folks who have found success,,as in other programs. Newcomers should observe this success and "hang out with the winners" as they say. But that requires the willingness I shared,,,where a person will do anything not to use again..

It has worked for me....I still search out people on the journey who possess aspects of character I haven't evolved.....

Lenny

the ones mandated by the court system in my opinion are only there to satisfy the court. they are not in there to stop whatever it is they are doing. it is only when THEY want to stop that it works. all those programs are good but only if the person wants it to work.

I don't think my sister likes her life style. She wants a family like the rest of her sisters do. She has been in and out of jail and in and out of rehab. She does great in both, get's into programs and goes to their therapists and while she is there she seems like she's going to make it this time. When she has to be on her own is when she fails. She has a weakness for men (she wants a family), she is a beautiful girl, but not many "good" men want her because of her background ,so she always finds someone in one of these meeting who has not been through all these programs to heal. Not that she is strong but she comes out of these programs after being in there for a year or more with a strong will and then she losses it. If the courts sees that she keeps coming back, you'd think they would order something else, a different program. I like the rehab she is in now, they treat her great and the have therapists on staff to get to the root of the problem.

I love my sister, she used to be my best friend, I miss her. The sister I knew and grew up with died fourteen years ago.

Perhaps you need to adjust to the sister as she is today? After all, no one remains the same. We all have to mourn our losses. Have you tried ala-non?

((((((vetswife)))))) on losing your sister.

I cant agree more with Lenny and bebop's statements. The person has to make a conscious decision to WANT to quit. I attend regular AA meetings and I probably will for the rest of my life. I had been sober 6 months before I took the white chip and committed myself to the AA program. I so wish that I could pass on the gift of willingness. I cannot. Nor can a court system or anyone else. I think if a person is court ordered it may be a blessing to introduce them to a design for living that can really work for them - but they have to want to to stop - and learn to live again.

Groups such as AA are based on fellowship and sobriety as a whole. I have found in my group that I learn the most from the elders. From those old timers I have learned more tricks to keep myself sober, I've experienced humor and so much love for them that I know AA will be a part of my life always. The younger ones come and go.....and I think I'm the youngest one that has "stayed in" this long. I always speak to newcomers, and I expect nothing, I just share my experiences.

These groups have worked for a very long time to help many people with many levels of addictions to find serenity, peace, and sobriety. Some say we have to hit rock bottom. "Rock Bottom" has and indefinite definition. Your sister may not enjoy her lifestyle but - is she ready to change? If she only stays in programs a year - and then goes out on her own - who is her support system? I went through probably 2 cases of beer a week for a good 2 or 3 years of my life......yeah, I was not happy with my lifestyle........and I wanted to change.........but I did not want to face the fact that it may take more than "me". Everyone is different. AA works for those who seek the wisdom and follow the program.

Regardless - your sister has to find her own way (In that I mean that I really, really, genuinely hope that the light bulb switches on!). I genuinely feel for you. I know what it is like to lose a loved one to drugs, alcohol, or both. It is heart wrenching and almost crippling. You and your sister are in my thoughts.

Take care......

Thank you. I've excepted the fact that my sister is a different person, I still love her. She has been battling this addiction since she was 16 she is now 31. Not to many people get as many chances as she has. My mother and I go and see her in rehab. My Mom gets her everything she needs. Like I said, it's when she comes home. My Mom has to work, she can't baby sit her all day. My sister acts like a out of control teenager when she is home. I hope she finds her way soon.

Perhaps your mother would do better not getting everything your sister needs? That way she would learn to be a grown up and not have to revert to the role of angry teenager? Sometimes the kindest thing to do isn't alwasy the eaisest?

Yea, I know that she's hurting her by providing for her ("If you teach a man to fish"... I know). I think it's easier said then done, at least for my mom she went really soft (she wasn't with me lol). My sister was psychologically evaluated, they said she has a mentality/maturity of a 12 year old (drugs fried her brain I guess). When she is in rehab they tell my Mom what my sister needs, my Mom goes and gets it. When she gets home, again, she should charge her rent or something (my sister definitely would not make it on her own financially). After I graduated high school I had to pay my mom rent, I don't know why the same rules wouldn't apply.

Like everyone else has said, you really have to want recovery in order to get it. Getting sober is one of the hardest things I've ever done, and I had multiple starts and relapses along the way before I got to even a little sobriety.

The thing about rehab is it's easy. I did an inpatient rehab and it was easy - it was safe and there was no access to alcohol, oh sure I could have smuggled in alcohol if I wanted to, but I was committed at the time. But as soon as I got out I had to deal with real life again as well as some mental health issues that were worsenning that I didn't recognize so I relapsed almost immediately and in fact my drinking got worse. It wasn't until I lost my job and landed in the hospital that I was ready to get serious.

On the subject of AA versus other recovery routes, I have somewhat mixed feelings. The first rehab I was in was purely 12 step based and we had to go to AA or N/A meetings every day. It kind of felt forced down my throat. The second treatment centre I did was totally non-12 step & it was much better for me. Partly I was more committed, but I also thought it was a better program because it talked about the biology of addiction, nutrition, recreation, and used a lot of CBT in the groups. It was also outpatient so you still had to deal with your real life after the days sessions ended. I still go back to that hospital once a week for group therapy. If your sister's current rehab has any kind of aftercare program, I'd really encourage you to encourage her to take part in it. That was and is still really important to me.

That being said. I do go to AA 2-3 times a week and I'm trying to work the steps to the best of my ability. But I do see lots of people cycling in and out of AA all the time. I try and stick with the people, and ask the advice of people with long term sobriety. But AA is a great social support network of sober people who get recovery.

My recovery also includes medical help. I take Naltrexone to help cut alcohol cravings and I take antabuse so that I'll get sick if I drink. I do that and plan to continue until I have at least a year sober, because I don't fully trust myself yet.

I do disagree with forced attendance at AA / NA meetings - I don't think it's going to do you any good unless you want what the program has to offer, that's key.

I really hope your sister makes it this time. And why don't you consider going to an Alanon meeting. I know it's associated with AA as opposed to N/A but it's supposed to be a really great support for people who have alcoholics in their lives.

Remember to take care of yourself too.

--splitimage

If I were to go to any kind of counseling it would be for my marriage lol! I have three kids and I don't leave them with anyone so I couldn't go to meetings, even if I wanted to. That's been suggested before, my brother also suffers from alcohol and substance abuse addictions. My Father died an alcoholic too, it seems to run in the family (some people believe it can), I'm grateful it skipped me, but I also worry about my kids. I will soon have a teen in the house and I've heard that most users start during puberty.

She will be coming out of rehab soon, I guess that's why there is a sudden onset of worry. Last time she came out of rehab she had to go to a half way house. She gave the therapist such a sob story of how home sick she was. They thought it would be better for her mentally if she were home. She probably will have to go into a half way house again. I think the therapist and probation officer are working on that.

Thanks for all the responses, it's nice to hear that there are people that have beaten this addiction thing.

post deleted by Rainbowzz

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
bmoz said:
Dear vetswife before you take any action please take a few moments to read this. www.rational.org/html_public_area/family.html
Boz

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

The people at AA are mostly very nice, accomadating and supportive. I for one can tell you, you are worried for nothing.

I can't speak for all os meetings just the ones I attended. Anyone can speak and all can attend. What I found consistent and comforting was I was not alone or "the only one" in my situation, members were all very similar in that thier parents like my parents were enablers, co-dependents or rage-aholics. I got to admit that we are powerless over alcohol which was a relief for me because I was trying to be responsible for using. I made up a higher power like everyone else so I had guidance which is cool. It is also cool that you aren't allowed to quit for a long period of time which I stupidly intended and are taught to not stop for more than one day at a time because we would risk a relapse which is no biggie anyway because we are taught that alcoholism is an illness and relapsing just proves we are sick, powerless and human and I believe this to be undeniably true. Speakers also talk about their relapses and what values they learned from them which is also cool. We get taught that our sobriety through the 12 steps takes precedence over anything else in our lives or we risk being happy while sober which is fun and that we have our new family and friends to call whenever we don't feel well. The best is we can go every day even twice a day and we are welcomed each time and we can go for the rest of our lives which is a blessing because duh... That's how long we will need support. You will love it. Enjoy!

bmoz,

I'm not seeking help for myself (I've never had a problem with addiction, frankly, I don't understand it). I am seeking help for my sister, brother and husband (his is a little different (abusing pain meds from doc)).

I am concerned for my sister who will be out of rehab soon. She will be court ordered to attend AA or NA, this will start the cycle all over again. She does it every time (this is like her 10th). She gets out of rehab (which she does great in) goes to AA/NA and find someone with the same problems and then they decide to party and relapse together, she disappears and the next time we hear from her is from jail. One day she's not going to be so lucky. I just think in her case she would be better off not to go to those groups, she should be as far away from anyone like her as possible.

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
vetswife said:
she should be as far away from anyone like her as possible.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

I am not trying to be trite vestwife,,but exactly where would that be?

Addicts will find addicts and the substances they use in the rectory if that is where they must stay...it is the nature of the "need".

Until she surrenders the fight,,,nowhere is safe from the compulsion.

At least in places where some folks have surrendered and there are examples of recovery in action,,,there is the chance that a seed could be planted that would take root...

There are great men and women everywhere and sometimes "chance" is what moves a person into the path of another. But the chance can be increased if we put ourselves in places where great people congregate...

IMHO.

Lenny

I hope you are right. And I hope that seed gets planted soon. Something has to shake her or I'm afraid she will lose her life.

Thanks for the insight, I appreciate any insight of the disease, so I can understand and help.

I love her and don't want to lose her and want to do everything I can to help her get better.

She was able to come home for a few hours yesterday. I picked her up and had a nice talk in the car. She looks great. She seems sensitive to a lot of things. Like how we handle the children (if we yell at them or put them in time out) she just seems super sensitive.
I told her about this site and how they have support forums for just about every thing.

Thanks again for the insight.

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
bmoz said:
</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
bmoz said:
Dear vetswife before you take any action please take a few moments to read this. www.rational.org/html_public_area/family.html
Boz

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">
Vetswife, if you check the link, it is for family of addicts and explains the nature of your dilemna.
Boz

((((((vetswife))))))))

I am a member of N/A. I have 18 monrhs clean after 30 years of using. After rehab it's 90 meetings in 90 days. She has got to want it more than you do. Just leave her alone and let her make her choices. I know it's hard, but that's what you have to do. You & your mom are co dependents. I am one too. I have an 18 yr son that I will not let live with me. He has no job. He lives with whoever he can. He wants to come home. I have a protection order that if he steps on my property I can have him arrested. He broke into my garage and stole a weed trimmer and sold it for money. I pressed charges. He is now in an intervention program with the courts. If he makes 1 slip he goes to prison. If he works the program, the felonies are off his record. I have had the support of a counselor to do this. Every week I just want to bring him home. I am so scared. I can't continue to rescue him or there is no chance of him changing. I can't tell you how hard this has been and how much I've cried over this.

They aren't responsible for their illness, but they are responsible for their recovery.

I wish this forum had a co dependency category. I'm sure many people could use it.

I wish your sister well.

hiya i am new to aa meetings, and i find that when i dont go i lose my programme.
The addiction is only step one that we admit we are powerless over alcohol (or another substacne such as heroin) and our lives have become unmanageable. Getting through the withdrawal is only one step in the process. To maintain a clean and sober life, we must apply the steps to the whole aspect of our lives. We blame people, things stress for picking up drink or a drug, and this is the area we need to focus on. Not picking up that first drink or drug, as it wil lead to destruction.
I find that even without an addiction the twelve step programme is a good way of living a calmer, life, and accepting life on lifes terms. By respecting others, and being in a fellowship where you dont feel alone. It can be overwhelming, but god doesnt have to mean religion. It a higher power, that you give your life to in order to stay away from that addiction, and deal with emotions.
Addictions are a biproduct of emotional immaturity/instability and therefore learning to deal with emotions is the key, instead of hiding them with mind altering substances. I have been on the emotional rollercoaster, but through speaking to those in the same situation, and learning from there experience is amazing. I dont feel alone anymore, and i have faith that life is worth living. It is good now, i am becoming a better perosn and developing a spiritual path which my life will follow/

I recommend it and wish everyone luck in overcoming an addiction, however they choose to do it. but the best thing about it is it anonymous and self supporting.

Raceka, you are so strong.

My Mom has kicked my sister out lots of times but never pressed charges on her for the many, many things my sister stole.

My Mom also was stuck with one of my sisters needles. My sister got kicked out this last time because she dropped a pill on the floor. There are lots of little ones that go to my Moms house and my Mom couldn't risk one of the babies getting a hold of something. I am also one of my sister aliases, luckily I knew a cop to clear my record she created for me. This was a long time ago and I forgave her.

My sister has been homeless many times. She has been to jail, rehab and halfway houses many times. I do leave her alone and only talk to her when she is doing well. I cry for her all the time and I'm sure my Mom cries more for her lost children.

My Mom and us sisters are much harder on my sister then we are on our brother (who also has a dependency problem). I have no idea why but I have a soft spot for my brother. My Pop-pop especially favors him because my Dad passed. I know this is only hurting him but how do you get a man in his 80's to listen to you!

My sister's in a really good program right now and doing very well. When she comes home she fails, I just wish I knew a way to be more emotionally supportive to her so she doesn't want go back to that life style.

Thank you all for your relpies

I don't feel very strong.. I cry everyday for him. I have a wonderful T that has guided me through all of this. My son started out seeing this T when he was 16. He's been in and out of rehab and I've done everything I possible could do to help him. I've done lots of enabling. It's time for him to face the consequences of his actions so he can learn and grow from his choices. I just pray that God will keep him safe from himself.

My T asked me yesterday "how much time have you spent trying to take care of him and taking care of yourself?" I couldn't give him an answer because I haven't been taking care of myself at all. In therapy we haven't been able to work on me until I'm not bogged down with him. Yesterday I told him lets wrap up the co dependency today, T goes on vacaction for 2 weeks and when he returns it's going to be about me. (I hope). I told him there's nothing else he can teach me about it. I know what I have to do. It hurts. The hardest part is letting go. Let go and let God. Easier said than done.

I went to a few Al-ANON meetings and bought a book called Hope for Today. It's a daily devotional. July 27 the thought for the day Standing with my arms extended and turning in a full circle gives me a visual marker of the extent of my responsiblitiy. It it doens't come into my space, I leave it alone.

"Today I will remember that I have choices, and so does the alcoholic, I will make the best choices I can and allow others in my life to do the same without interference"

Courage to Change page 5

Check out the subject co dependency I wrote asking about web sites. Mouse suggested a website called soberrecovery. I thought it was good.

I'll pray for your sister. Help her get to meetings. Love her and hug her no matter what she does. Addicts have underlying problems. Once the drugs wear off, they start to feel again. They used the drugs inthe first place to not feel. Hopefully she has a T she likes.

Feel free to ask me anything you'd like. I've been there.

She's in a good rehab now and she likes her therapist who is on staff. I wish she could just stay there, I feel she's safe.

She was aloud to home for a few hours a couple week-ends ago. She just seems so sensitive to things. When I disciplin my kids she'll gasps and frowns real big (yelling at them or putting them in time out).

I think she has a lot of underlining emotional problems as I agree that most addicts do.

Thanks for praying for my sister and thank you for your response. I hope and pray that your son makes it too.