For years I've been convincing myself that the actions of my father have had little to no effect on me. I've trivialised my past and the abuse to which I was subjected. I'm not sure why I do this. Perhaps I do it because I don't want to admit that I could be affected in any way by him. And, until recently, I've made conscious effort to avoid facing it (something which I rarely do with any other situation, regardless of how psychologically traumatising), including telling everyone and their mother that my father is dead. It's true, in a way, that he's dead to me. I told him that I didn't want anything to do with him, and I meant it. But, in reality, he is alive (not quite himself since his heart attack, but he's still alive, nonetheless). And I must acknowledge that.

As I've mentioned, my father is, to the best of my knowledge, a malignant narcissist, albeit a relatively functional one. He wanted a Stepford wife and children who would bend to his every whim and help him create the illusion of perfection. And he tried to achieve this image through force (and arguably succeeded). I was his first son, so he wanted greatness for me. But, and I'm not sure if this is a result of the abuse or psychopathy, I was insubordinate. I never tolerated his abuse or his mind games. As a child, I had an insatiable desire for revenge (an unfortunate condition which carried into adulthood), especially when I got into pre-teen years. If he hit me or took something away from me, I'd return the favour, usually by attacking his pride or the family's "perfect" illusion. He absolutely loathed me for it, and the abuse quickly escalated. But giving in seemed so much worse. I couldn't bring myself to do it, even to escape pain.

That belief or feeling or unconscious reaction or whatever... is still strong with me today, even in situations which don't warrant such a reaction. With few exceptions, I cannot stand to not be in control of myself or others. If I ever believe that someone's trying to control me in any way, I start getting that nagging feeling. It feels like I'm suffocating, and I feel compelled to rebel or do something in order to breath. Sometimes I even want to feel trapped so I have the opportunity to overcome, to act out, or to rebel... hence the fantasies of living in an Orwellian dystopia and then burning it to the ground.

I don't know why I'm posting this... I'm just rambling... But I need to be somewhere, so... to be continued...

[pegasus]

This is insight Michael D.

[objtrbit]

Hi there;

Originally Posted by Michael D.

For years I've been convincing myself that the actions of my father have had little to no effect on me. I've trivialised my past and the abuse to which I was subjected. I'm not sure why I do this. Perhaps I do it because I don't want to admit that I could be affected in any way by him. And, until recently, I've made conscious effort to avoid facing it (something which I rarely do with any other situation, regardless of how psychologically traumatising), including telling everyone and their mother that my father is dead. It's true, in a way, that he's dead to me. I told him that I didn't want anything to do with him, and I meant it. But, in reality, he is alive (not quite himself since his heart attack, but he's still alive, nonetheless). And I must acknowledge that.

You've stated a lot here-there's something about talking or writing something down and making it known to another that can be powerful; what do you think it is about this point in your life that makes you want to confront isues sourrounding your father?

As I've mentioned, my father is, to the best of my knowledge, a malignant narcissist, albeit a relatively functional one. He wanted a Stepford wife and children who would bend to his every whim and help him create the illusion of perfection. And he tried to achieve this image through force (and arguably succeeded).

Sounds like he was a joy to live with, no?

I was his first son, so he wanted greatness for me.

What was that like for you?

But, and I'm not sure if this is a result of the abuse or psychopathy, I was insubordinate. I never tolerated his abuse or his mind games. As a child, I had an insatiable desire for revenge (an unfortunate condition which carried into adulthood), especially when I got into pre-teen years. If he hit me or took something away from me, I'd return the favour, usually by attacking his pride or the family's "perfect" illusion. He absolutely loathed me for it, and the abuse quickly escalated. But giving in seemed so much worse. I couldn't bring myself to do it, even to escape pain.

That is definitly no way to live as a kid. What was it like for you to hold that kind of standard to yourself? What would have happened if you didn't get revenge?

That belief or feeling or unconscious reaction or whatever... is still strong with me today, even in situations which don't warrant such a reaction.

It causes you problems?
As a sidenote, I think its awesome that you are able to see these recreations in your life.

With few exceptions, I cannot stand to not be in control of myself or others. If I ever believe that someone's trying to control me in any way, I start getting that nagging feeling. It feels like I'm suffocating, and I feel compelled to rebel or do something in order to breath.

Is it a type of control in particular you really pick up on, or is it the slightest feeling of control in general? Do you feel this is extreme (no one controling you whatsoever) or a balance-is there ever a situation in which not being in control can serve a purpose for you?

Sometimes I even want to feel trapped so I have the opportunity to overcome, to act out, or to rebel... hence the fantasies of living in an Orwellian dystopia and then burning it to the ground.

lol! Its amazing how we run into people in our lives that seem to help us recreate these inner conflicts we have...you experiencing that lately?

I don't know why I'm posting this... I'm just rambling... But I need to be somewhere, so... to be continued...

How do you feel about this post now?

I feel like I asked a lot of questions, hope it was a good experience for you-your post as pegasus mentioned, was very insightful, if I do say so myself .

Take care,
-obj

Originally Posted by objtrbit

Hi there;

Hello.

You've stated a lot here-there's something about talking or writing something down and making it known to another that can be powerful; what do you think it is about this point in your life that makes you want to confront isues sourrounding your father?

There's a certain member here who will go unnamed and who reminds me of my father.

Originally Posted by obj

What was that like for you?

Oh, nothing short of dreadful. He wanted me to be his idea of the picture perfect son, so long as I didn't exceed his achievements. When I inevitably rejected his ideas in favour of my own and was revered for my achievements, he began to hate me for it. Basically, I was everything he feared I would become. I didn't care, because I never liked him in the first place. But he managed to make my life rather difficult simply out of spite.

That is definitly no way to live as a kid. What was it like for you to hold that kind of standard to yourself? What would have happened if you didn't get revenge?

At the time, it was the only option. Hell, it was a compulsion. I never even considered the alternative, the mere thought infuriated me, and I doubt I would be able to refrain from my vindictive ways even if I had.

It causes you problems?
As a sidenote, I think its awesome that you are able to see these recreations in your life.

Indeed, it does. I can control myself just enough to avoid getting caught or facing any sort of repercussion.

Is it a type of control in particular you really pick up on, or is it the slightest feeling of control in general? Do you feel this is extreme (no one controling you whatsoever) or a balance-is there ever a situation in which not being in control can serve a purpose for you?

Manipulative control... the sort in which the puppets don't know they are, indeed, puppets. Or a leader position, simply where I have cohorts, but they aren't mindless. They can question me if they feel a particular plan of mine isn't the wisest, so long as they do so respectfully. But not control in the ultimate sense. I was never really into the "get on your knees and lick my shoe" sort of thing... It used to be more extreme, but has become somewhat balanced as I've begun to learn more about myself.

lol! Its amazing how we run into people in our lives that seem to help us recreate these inner conflicts we have...you experiencing that lately?

Yep.

How do you feel about this post now?

I've regretted it since the moment I hit "submit". Not for anything said in response, mind you. It just leaves me with a feeling of unease. But through sheer force of will (and partly because of lack of computer access), I've refrained from deleting it entirely.

[Open Eyes]

There's a certain member here who will go unnamed and who reminds me of my father. ~quote Michael

I have had some of this happen to me as well, I have had two narcissists in my childhood that profoundly effected me. My father had narcissitic tendancies and my sister was constantly over ruling me. I was invalidated in all kinds of ways and the message that seemed to come out was that I had no right to my own opinion. When I come accross messages that touch on that, I do react, and not always appropriately.
I was invalidated so much in my life and not really taught how to overcome that by seeing someone else handle it effectively.

I've regretted it since the moment I hit "submit". Not for anything said in response, mind you. It just leaves me with a feeling of unease. But through sheer force of will (and partly because of lack of computer access), I've refrained from deleting it entirely. ~quote Michael

Yes, I have that problem as well. This is because it exposes us to critisizm and also leaves us feeling vulnerable. Honestly, no matter what a person struggles with, no one wants to reveal their vulnerable facets.

The problem with acting out on cues that remind us of a toxic person we experienced, is that sometimes we fail to see who the other person is or even that this person may have a similar issue. As I mentioned, I had this very same scenario happen to me and I REALLY had to stop and think about what it meant. This really IS a challenge when we have some very disturbing imprints that are negetive and opressive. If two people come from a similar oppressive background, it can result in only giving rise to the anger and it simply is NOT truely fruitful. It can escalate in a very bad direction because both people are expressing anger that is ingrained in them from the same kind of controling force. Once anger kicks in, reason goes out the window just about every time. It can be a problem for both individuals and hard to not continue looking at that other person as a source to let out old anger, or deep anger from the origninal source.

I have seen this take place a lot in different kinds of scenarios. I have worked with children that were picked on and controlled somehow. I give them attention and when I bring in another child that gets attention the original child is threatened. This has been a constant that I have seen happen in the field of horse showing as well.
Often there is no REAL team work, only a goal to stand out as ONE winner. There is a lot of narcissism involved that is the original source behind this phenomenom.

If I get a chance to work on this with the children and redirect it to a more positive direction, it CAN be overcome. However, if I cannot personally effect the change, then I simply have to bear witness to the damage that ALWAYS takes place. I hated going to horse shows for this reason. And I hated seeing how the horses were ridden into the ground because of the need for the win driven by narcissits that ONLY cared about THEIR EGO. The sad part is that the children never truely learned HOW to be WINNERS and REAL HORSEMAN. The horses were trained to carry and do ALL the work while the spoiled child sat and posed. These horses are VERY HIGH PRICED and just there for FEEDING EGO'S. Alot of these young riders could not really ride without the horse knowing HOW to execute the course. Most, if not all these children would not know how to ride and train a horse, could not really ride their way out of a paper bag. There was NO REAL learning involved, NO mastery of REAL SKILLS and NO sense of TEAM WORK AT ALL.

What I saw is that the REAL successful RIDER was often the lowly barn girl that did all the work and was the one that had to sit on the very untrained horses through all the stages of educating these horses. It was always nice to see when these lowly barn girls came from nowhere and WON inspite of all the MONEY and EGOS flashed around. There is ALWAYS a silence that follows that.

This world has really changed so much. Money and EGO talks. The coach for the US olympic team sees this all the time. He talks about the old days when children had to switch horses and show their REAL skills.
This is not permitted today and because of that the competition is skewed. When it comes time to ride in the Olympics, a talented horse is a must, but a knowlegable rider is also a MUST. The picking can be slim and a rider must be prepared to ride a replacement horse if the original mount is injured. The REAL professional are a whole different group of individuals. There really isn't any room for over inflated egos.

From what I have seen, I don't think narcissits are born that way, I think they are taught to be that way.
Once they are completely formed they can only see their OWN egos. From my own observations, it only creates a lot of all around waste.

Open Eyes

Originally Posted by Open Eyes

There's a certain member here who will go unnamed and who reminds me of my father. ~quote Michael

I have had some of this happen to me as well, I have had two narcissists in my childhood that profoundly effected me. My father had narcissitic tendancies and my sister was constantly over ruling me. I was invalidated in all kinds of ways and the message that seemed to come out was that I had no right to my own opinion. When I come accross messages that touch on that, I do react, and not always appropriately.
I was invalidated so much in my life and not really taught how to overcome that by seeing someone else handle it effectively.

Actually, I don't believe I reacted inappropriately. The dispute ... rather, one small bit said by the member in question ... just reminded me of my father. And I thought I'd address some unresolved issues I had with my father instead of arguing with the aforementioned member, as most of it is just incessant drivel anyway.

The problem with acting out on cues that remind us of a toxic person we experienced, is that sometimes we fail to see who the other person is or even that this person may have a similar issue. As I mentioned, I had this very same scenario happen to me and I REALLY had to stop and think about what it meant. This really IS a challenge when we have some very disturbing imprints that are negetive and opressive. If two people come from a similar oppressive background, it can result in only giving rise to the anger and it simply is NOT truely fruitful. It can escalate in a very bad direction because both people are expressing anger that is ingrained in them from the same kind of controling force. Once anger kicks in, reason goes out the window just about every time. It can be a problem for both individuals and hard to not continue looking at that other person as a source to let out old anger, or deep anger from the origninal source.

I never allow anger to get in the way of reason.

[Open Eyes]

Well, sometimes one can answer their own questions. An excercise of posting a question/concern can invite a chance for personal resolve in a different light.

What I have come to realize in a very unfortunate way is that when we experience a toxic person at a very young age it can taint us more than we realize. Reasoning can be skewed by this, I have, myself been tangled up in interactions that seemed to just present me with an element of surprise. If this happens, I may react from the anger that a toxic person somehow bestowed upon me. What may seem reason at the time for me may not be the best reaction overall. It can be difficult when another person starts the inappropriate interaction due to their own exposure to something toxic in their past. It IS a challenge and the one thing I DO know is that two wrongs do not make a right.

I must admit it can be a slippery slope and on a grander scale can end up in war where the cost is substancial. I guess it is an element in human behaviors that can be very troubling.

Open Eyes

Originally Posted by Open Eyes

What I have come to realize in a very unfortunate way is that when we experience a toxic person at a very young age it can taint us more than we realize. Reasoning can be skewed by this, I have, myself been tangled up in interactions that seemed to just present me with an element of surprise. If this happens, I may react from the anger that a toxic person somehow bestowed upon me. What may seem reason at the time for me may not be the best reaction overall. It can be difficult when another person starts the inappropriate interaction due to their own exposure to something toxic in their past. It IS a challenge and the one thing I DO know is that two wrongs do not make a right.

I don't think my reasoning has ever been skewed by my loss of control over anger or other such emotion. Even my insatiable desires for vengeance have been mitigated by the "what's most beneficial for me" instinct. And my occasional outbursts are always in check, evidenced by the fact that I've never acted out in a way that would lead to repercussions for me. One of the benefits of psychopathy is being hyper-logical. I only express anger when it would work in my favour.

My past did have an effect on me. To what degree and in what areas, I'm not entirely sure. Even the issues I stated in my initial post could be solely due to psychopathy, as many psychopaths experience the same feelings, regardless of parental influence.

Originally Posted by obj

...is there ever a situation in which not being in control can serve a purpose for you?

My apologies. I forgot to answer your question in the previous post...

I can't think of any, unless I was a masochist. In which case, giving control to another would serve my sexual desires. But I'm not, so that's beside the point...

[Cotton ball]

Michael, Myers. Mr. Man with many names,
It's a good sign you have overcome such a breakthrough in your personal healing. Family is tough and those N parents can kill you.
Stay strong and love yourself.
Cotton

[objtrbit]

Originally Posted by obj
...is there ever a situation in which not being in control can serve a purpose for you?

And you said:
My apologies. I forgot to answer your question in the previous post...

I can't think of any, unless I was a masochist. In which case, giving control to another would serve my sexual desires. But I'm not, so that's beside the point...[/quote]

Hey there; here I was curious to see if there was a balance...on one hand, if you feel you have to be in control of everything at all times-well thats one extreme, and then of course the other extreme is having no control all the time. From what you've posted here and there it seems that the idea of being out of control repulses you, as well as being around any one who exhibits lack of control...do you feel this is a theme for you?

Hope all is well with you, my apologies as well for the time it took to get back to you;
take care,
-obj

Originally Posted by objtrbit

From what you've posted here and there it seems that the idea of being out of control repulses you, as well as being around any one who exhibits lack of control...do you feel this is a theme for you?

Most definitely. As a matter of fact, it happens to be one of my morals.