Hi. I am Dan. I have been with my psychologist and psychiatrist for about 8 months now. I am Bipolar II. When treatment started we identified my type as rapid cycling and discovered I had been cycling for years! I have mixed cycling. I call it 'active depression' when it's on the low side and just damn frustrating and intolerable when it was on the high side.

I was just on Lamictal 100 mg. until we discovered that I was having psychotic symptoms as well. Then the Abilify started and landed at 7.5 mg.

Now I am close to stable... but not happy at all. In fact I am miserable. I wrote in to my pdoc the things I want to change about how I feel. I wrote that I am tired of feeling like I am always doing something wrong, like there is a problem with me just being me. That I was never sure about what I did and that I never felt part of anything. I wrote in about my high, constant and problematic anxiety that I can never shake.

He wrote back. He does not believe that I have BPD! (Borderline Personality Disorder) THANK YOU!!!

But he does believe that I have ADHD??? High stem??? Ugh.. I don't really know what that is. He says that could be the reason for the feelings I wrote above.

So I have to ask... is add/adhd more than just distractablility? Can it lead to feelings of severe magnitude and ruin someones life? What is it exactly?

For it to be the cause of what I am feeling, it would have to be more than the popularly advertised, "Look.... Squirell!" condition.

I apologize for knowing nothing about it or any offense my comments might have. I guess it would be like someone coming onto a Bipolar board asking if Bipolar was just happy/sad syndrome lol. I have encountered people saying that, "oh, i get happy and sad too, I must be bipolar" lol. There is so much more to it that people don't know. As there is with ADD.

I guess that's why I am posting here. Asking what else there is, because if it can make a person feel the way I am feeling, then my anger towards media and public awareness groups will be incredible for only telling one side of the story. At least with Bipolar people run scared knowing its a debilitating condition. There is less minimization as there is with ADD, assuming that my pdoc is correct. I see him on Sat. and he wants to start meds for it.

I am really unsure. could ADD mirror sympoms of both Bipolar AND BPD??

[BatsAndButterflies]

It can definitely mirror those symptoms and it is way more than just distractibility. There is a part of our brain that is a little bit lazy causing us to have less control over certain emotions and impulses and such. Also certain experiences when younger can lead to certain emotions when we're older. Am I making any sense here?

Originally Posted by landskaperdan

Hi. I am Dan. I have been with my psychologist and psychiatrist for about 8 months now. I am Bipolar II. When treatment started we identified my type as rapid cycling and discovered I had been cycling for years! I have mixed cycling. I call it 'active depression' when it's on the low side and just damn frustrating and intolerable when it was on the high side.

I was just on Lamictal 100 mg. until we discovered that I was having psychotic symptoms as well. Then the Abilify started and landed at 7.5 mg.

Now I am close to stable... but not happy at all. In fact I am miserable. I wrote in to my pdoc the things I want to change about how I feel. I wrote that I am tired of feeling like I am always doing something wrong, like there is a problem with me just being me. That I was never sure about what I did and that I never felt part of anything. I wrote in about my high, constant and problematic anxiety that I can never shake.

He wrote back. He does not believe that I have BPD! (Borderline Personality Disorder) THANK YOU!!!

But he does believe that I have ADHD??? High stem??? Ugh.. I don't really know what that is. He says that could be the reason for the feelings I wrote above.

So I have to ask... is add/adhd more than just distractablility? Can it lead to feelings of severe magnitude and ruin someones life? What is it exactly?

For it to be the cause of what I am feeling, it would have to be more than the popularly advertised, "Look.... Squirell!" condition.

I apologize for knowing nothing about it or any offense my comments might have. I guess it would be like someone coming onto a Bipolar board asking if Bipolar was just happy/sad syndrome lol. I have encountered people saying that, "oh, i get happy and sad too, I must be bipolar" lol. There is so much more to it that people don't know. As there is with ADD.

I guess that's why I am posting here. Asking what else there is, because if it can make a person feel the way I am feeling, then my anger towards media and public awareness groups will be incredible for only telling one side of the story. At least with Bipolar people run scared knowing its a debilitating condition. There is less minimization as there is with ADD, assuming that my pdoc is correct. I see him on Sat. and he wants to start meds for it.

I am really unsure. could ADD mirror sympoms of both Bipolar AND BPD??

When I went to my GP about anxiety attacks that were way out of character for me, he gave me a couple of generic Q/A test and said I scored high on the BP side. I did not think I was BP, but knew a psychiatrist was the best bet to find out for sure. My psychiatrist asked questions for about 10 minutes and suddenly looked at me and said "You are not Bi-Polar, you are ADD". I was shocked and asked how did nobody notice this in my prior 43 years of life??? I've been reading ever since then and it's like the books talk straight from my brain. I was never hyper, I was stable at my job, but the more I read the more I was convinced he was right. I responded well to my first Adderall and it was like taking a wet blanket off my brain. I felt Good, less grumpy, less tired, slept better on less sleep, worked better... ADD is still relatively new and many doctors are not expert enough to recognize it in adults.

There are many similar symptoms between ADD and BPD, I admit I don't know that much about BPD, but I thought the periods of up and down were over weeks or months at a time. ADD has similar up and down periods, but these swings can be during the same day.

Keep reading... If it is ADD, you could know within the first 30 minutes after taking your first Adderal. My life changed afterwards for the better. Keep us posted

[BlueInanna]

Yep my understanding is the symptoms mirror and overlap. But it is possible to have both. I have adhd & BPII. I started out a few years ago at age 34 went on meds for depression and anxiety. The pdoc discussed a lot with me and after a few visits we agreed i'd had add my whole life. High intelligence as a child, yet distractable, trouble reading, keeping eyes on pages of books, forgetful, unorganized, etc. So we added in adderall and it was great. But then I had some hypomania - which I didnt exactly tell my pdoc everything going on for quite awhile. But when I came clean and told her the embarrassing truths, she "evolved" my dx to BPII with adhd. I'm so confused though, what if it is just adhd? or just BP?

But adhd can totally wreak havock on your life! If you can't organize it gets so overwhelming. If you can't focus well at school and work, yet you know your brain is smart, can be really bad for self-esteem. My pdoc described adhd brain as trying to store immense amounts of information without enough filing cabinets. I liked that analogy.

The thing with having BP and taking some of the adhd meds is that they can send you into a mania, kinda like how we respond sometimes weirdly to anti-depressants. So my pdoc says I have to take Lithium or another mood stabilizer if I want adhd meds. Seems to be working well so far.

Originally Posted by BlueInanna

Yep my understanding is the symptoms mirror and overlap. But it is possible to have both. I have adhd & BPII. I started out a few years ago at age 34 went on meds for depression and anxiety. The pdoc discussed a lot with me and after a few visits we agreed i'd had add my whole life. High intelligence as a child, yet distractable, trouble reading, keeping eyes on pages of books, forgetful, unorganized, etc. So we added in adderall and it was great. But then I had some hypomania - which I didnt exactly tell my pdoc everything going on for quite awhile. But when I came clean and told her the embarrassing truths, she "evolved" my dx to BPII with adhd. I'm so confused though, what if it is just adhd? or just BP?

But adhd can totally wreak havock on your life! If you can't organize it gets so overwhelming. If you can't focus well at school and work, yet you know your brain is smart, can be really bad for self-esteem. My pdoc described adhd brain as trying to store immense amounts of information without enough filing cabinets. I liked that analogy.

The thing with having BP and taking some of the adhd meds is that they can send you into a mania, kinda like how we respond sometimes weirdly to anti-depressants. So my pdoc says I have to take Lithium or another mood stabilizer if I want adhd meds. Seems to be working well so far.

If you tried the BP meds without ADD meds and it wasn't quite right, maybe they would let you try the ADD meds without the BP ones. Adderall changed everything for me. I cut out the anti-depressants, which seemed to help for a month or two, but afterwards I just felt nothing. No good, no bad, just blah... Eventually anxiety caused me to push for a psychiatrist instead of just my regular doctor. Read one of the Dr. Hallowell books and see if it is a fit.

Hang in there...

Actually the mood stabalizers and antipsychotic cleared up soooooo much for me that I would never want to go without them. I know that my highs and lows far exceed anything other than bp, I'm just miserable otherwise. I don't believe I have trouble focusing... its more like an invisible wall getting in my way, keeping me from where I want to be. Pdoc told me that wall could be add. Anyone else describe it as invisible wall?
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Oops... he knows I am bipolar.... but I feared I had bpd (borderline personality disorder) as well. I love my psychiatrist! Lol not literally.

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...hey, yep I read what you wrote yesterday I read it and it did a few laps in my head and I relate.

I'm another like you

[BlueInanna]

Originally Posted by landskaperdan

I don't believe I have trouble focusing... its more like an invisible wall getting in my way, keeping me from where I want to be. Pdoc told me that wall could be add. Anyone else describe it as invisible wall?

hmmm... interesting.... i think yes, sometimes I feel like a wall keeping me from getting things accomplished that I want. It's like I can't wrap my head around all the steps to completion, and i'll stall and feel stuck.

Saw pdoc today. Could not have gone worse! My wife had a meltdown, right there in his office before we really got into it! And it never stops surprising me just how pro active one needs to be in their diagnosis and maintenance. I shut off... never got to say what I had wanted. I just listened... and based on my short answers... was told that I am having complications caused by unresolved issues with my bipolar disorder. Regretfully... he upped my anti psychotic and ordered me back to weekly psychotherapy so he can work with my psychologist to figure out what more is going on. I feel that I have wasted everyones time on this board. My issues are probably not add at all... just the "inner turmoil" as he puts it of being mentally ill. I hate this... and I am sorry to cross over to this board and bring my craziness with me. I really am.

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Originally Posted by landskaperdan

Saw pdoc today. Could not have gone worse! My wife had a meltdown, right there in his office before we really got into it! And it never stops surprising me just how pro active one needs to be in their diagnosis and maintenance. I shut off... never got to say what I had wanted. I just listened... and based on my short answers... was told that I am having complications caused by unresolved issues with my bipolar disorder. Regretfully... he upped my anti psychotic and ordered me back to weekly psychotherapy so he can work with my psychologist to figure out what more is going on. I feel that I have wasted everyones time on this board. My issues are probably not add at all... just the "inner turmoil" as he puts it of being mentally ill. I hate this... and I am sorry to cross over to this board and bring my craziness with me. I really am.

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Landskaperdan... You have not wasted anybody's time! I think everyone here wants to help you through any problems. Who cares if your experience crosses boards. So many of these things ARE related. Maybe you should ask for another session without your wife there? I know I would not have been able to speak freely if my wife were in the room. Take care of yourself and keep us posted

[BlueInanna]

Agreed- you haven't wasted anybody's time! We're all just on this path with these pdocs and therapists and meds and dx's that change, and we're here to help each other. This is such a bummer that you didn't get to say what you wanted at your appt I agree that next appt should probably be just you and pdoc, without your wife. You can always fill her in on everything discussed after the appt, if you wanted. Hang in there!!

[BlueInanna]

I have another idea, could you call the pdoc and say you didn't get a chance to discuss the adhd possibility that he'd mentioned before? If you do want to try the meds for adhd, you could probably tell him that you have been reading up on it and want to give the adhd med route a try, that you don't want to put it off any longer.

Adhd meds are easy because you pretty much know that same day if it helps you, and if you don't like it you can just discontinue it without tapering. You know how with our bipolar meds it's always some mess tapering down off and changing meds.

But if you care to share, what did you want to tell pdoc that you didn't get to?

Originally Posted by YYZadd

Landskaperdan... You have not wasted anybody's time! I think everyone here wants to help you through any problems. Who cares if your experience crosses boards. So many of these things ARE related. Maybe you should ask for another session without your wife there? I know I would not have been able to speak freely if my wife were in the room. Take care of yourself and keep us posted

...totally agree with that YYD, so many of these things ARE related,

spot on!

I wanted to tell him that I am miserable. My anxiety is through the roof all the time and I feel desperate too. My irritability is really high all the time too. I feel as if I'm looking from the outside in and there is this invisible wall keeping me from doing anything about it. This wall drains me and I can't seem to motivate myself enough to get past it.

I've thought about what he said during the whole hour, between my wifes outbursts. It does make sense. He basically told me that he believes I am reacting to the absence of symptoms. I'll explain:

My onset was at nine years old. It was very active and became even more active as I got older. My parents were, and are, careless people who never felt I needed any help so I was untreated until 33. This year.

My cycling is predominately mixed, with some times of pure hypo and stretches of depression. I have been cycling for most my life.

So what he was trying to tell me was that taking that away has left me lost. That I don't know how to feel with it gone, that I need time to adjust to looking at life through these different lenses and learning things over again, this time the right way.

He believes that this is why I am searching for something else to be wrong. Because something is wrong. But he believes it's this.

After running that through my head the past couple of days, I would have to commend him on his insight of me. I believe he is right. But that does nothing to help me now. I can't go to the psychologist weekly till' october cuz that's when the insurance kicks in.

So right now I have resigned. I just want him to up my meds to the point I am overmedicated enough that I don't have to deal with feeling this way anymore, at least until I can get back into weekly psychotherapy. It is there that if there is anything more we will find out. He will work very closely with my psychologist and he said that together they will unravel all the turmoil that I have going on and find if there are really other issues at work or if I just need help with adjustment.

So yes... it's all just a big waste of time. Everything! I took the damn meds to be better. But now that I am I have problems that are just as big! What is it that I was working towards anyways? Is this how normal life feels? What would be the point then of any of this?

Once again I'm dumping on the wrong board. I was trying to answer BlueInanna's question.

[BlueInanna]

Ugh, meds for bipolar have been mostly a disappointment for me... I hated abilify, it made me feel so nuts, agitated and suicidal, and it gave me that thing like restless leg syndrome where the body feels so uncomfortable, and I paced a lot. I'm ok with the lithium for now. Zoloft sounds good haha, I havent tried that one yet. Wish I could get xanax, but pdoc said no to that one for me.

But it can take some time to get meds right for bipolar, everyone reacts so differently to them. It sucks how you have to just wait it out... but that's all you can do. Keep us posted, here or the BP forum