What comes first - the feeling or the thought?

This is like a chicken or the egg question. I'm interested in hearing what others have to say. I think it's the feeling first and then the thought, which is why it's harder to think rationally. If the thought came first I would have a fighting chance to stop and change my reaction/emotion.

I think it honestly depends, really. When my mind goes off on a tangent, it often reminds me of something negative for no reason whatsoever & then being upset kicks in after it's had some time to sink in... But there are other times where I get stressed out due to an event & THAT'S when my negative thoughts start happening. The way I figure it out for myself is by asking "do my thoughts have to do with something that upset me, or are my depressed thoughts all over the place & I'm just grabbing at smoke?" The former is triggered BY the thought, as it's a linear path. The latter is triggered by emotion: You know HOW you're feeling & you're just overcome by a slew of thoughts having to do with that emotion.

Hi....I believe the thought comes first..whether on a concious level or not, I believe it is the thought. Whether triggered by a memory or own individual thought patterns, there has to be an initial thought to set off the emotion and/or behaviour. IMO

Thanks for the replies! This was a question asked in group therapy and we all had different opinions. I haven't made up my mind yet,,,but I can see where the thought would be the trigger - and the feeling can come miliseconds later. But I can also see where a feeling would be an automatic response, especially feeling fear. It's a fine line isn't it? I go back and forth on this a lot.

I believe the thought comes first, though it is very likely on a very subconscious level. Thoughts trigger an emotional response.

feeling..then the thought, which makes the feeling even worse

I also think it depends on the situation. For me, it's mostly thought first, followed by emotion. I have gotten good at telling myself to stop thinking about certain things because I know it will lead to obsessive thinking and self-critical thoughts. It's really hard sometimes.

I believe that the feeling comes first, born in the reptilian brain or brainstem.

However, in group therapy the RPN insisted that the thought comes first.

You said it for me! I believe then we CAN control our thoughts and therefore reign in our feelings, especially problematic ones.

That is a very difficult thing for me. I think that sometime's it's the thought that triggers a response, and sometimes it's a feeling that triggers a response.

So I guess it's both ways for me.

It’s a proven scientific fact that the thought comes first. Brain scans showed that we have the thought before we are conscious of the thought.

I am a firm believer that the quality of our thoughts determine the quality of our life.

If you don’t like what you are feeling then change your thoughts.

I worked with positive thinking for a long time to improve the quality of my life.

This is a subject that is very dear to my heart.

A life changing event for me was to realise that I didn’t have to accept the first thought that came into my head - I could change it, make it more positive. And in doing so, I could create the positive result I so desired.

I’m also a firm believer that we create our own reality from our thoughts and actions.

I would like to share some quotes with you to show you that I’m not the only one who believes this.

These people said it a lot better than I ever could.

Welcome to my world.

Scared?

"I think, therefore I am." ~ Descartes 16??

"They can because they think they can." ~ Virgil - Roman epic poet (70 BC - 19 BC)

"For as a man thinketh in his heart so is he." ~ Proverbs 23:7

"Be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind." ~ Romans 12:2

"Our life is what our thoughts make it." ~ Marcus Aurelius Antonius

"There is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so." ~ Shakespeare

"The stream of knowledge is heading towards a non-mechanical reality; the Universe begins to look more like a great thought than like a great machine. Mind no longer appears to be an accidental intruder into the realm of matter... we ought rather hail it as the creator and governor of the realm of matter." Sir James Jeans "The mysterious universe" page 137.

Sir James Jeans, in an interview published in The Observer (London), when asked the question: "Do you believe that life on this planet is the result of some sort of accident, or do you believe that it is a part of some great scheme?" replied:

"I incline to the idealistic theory that consciousness is fundamental, and that the material universe is derivative from consciousness, not consciousness from the material universe... In general the universe seems to me to be nearer to a great thought than to a great machine. It may well be, it seems to me, that each individual consciousness ought to be compared to a brain-cell in a universal mind."

"What remains is in any case very different from the full-blooded matter and the forbidding materialism of the Victorian scientist. His objective and material universe is proved to consist of little more than constructs of our own minds. To this extent, then, modem physics has moved in the direction of philosophic idealism. Mind and matter, if not proved to be of similar nature, are at least found to be ingredients of one single system. There is no longer room for the kind of dualism which has haunted philosophy since the days of Descartes." Sir James Jeans addressing the British Association in 1934.

"Finite picture whose dimensions are a certain amount of space and a certain amount of time; the protons and electrons are the streaks of paint which define the picture against its space-time background. Traveling as far back in time as we can, brings us not to the creation of the picture, but to its edge; the creation of the picture lies as much outside the picture as the artist is outside his canvas. On this view, discussing the creation of the universe in terms of time and space is like trying to discover the artist and the action of painting, by going to the edge of the canvas. This brings us very near to those philosophical systems which regard the universe as a thought in the mind of its Creator, thereby reducing all discussion of material creation to futility." Sir James Jeans "The universe around us" page 317.


"Be vigilant; guard your mind against negative thoughts." ~ Prince Gautama Siddharta

"A belief is not merely an idea the mind possesses; it is an idea that possesses the mind." ~ Robert Bolton

"If you realized how powerful your thoughts are, you would never think a negative thought." ~ Peace Pilgrim

"Be not afraid of life. Believe that life is worth living and your belief will help create the fact." ~ William James

"You are today where your thoughts have brought you; you will be tomorrow where your thoughts take you." ~ James Allen

"Mind is the master weaver, both of the inner garment of character and the outer garment of circumstance." ~ James Allen

"When you rule your mind you rule your world. When you choose your thoughts you choose results." ~ Imelda Shanklin

"The significant problems we face today cannot be solved on the same level of thinking we were at when we created them." ~ Albert Einstein

"The person who sends out positive thoughts activates the world around him positively and draws back to himself positive results." ~ Norman Vincent Peale

"Our life is what our thoughts make it. A man will find that as he alters his thoughts toward things and other people, things and other people will alter towards him." ~ James Allen

"The happiness of your life depends upon the quality of your thoughts: therefore, guard accordingly, and take care that you entertain no notions unsuitable to virtue and reasonable nature." ~ Marcus Aurelius

"Reality is not so much what happens to us; rather, it is how we think about those events that create the reality we experience. In a very real sense, this means that we each create the reality in which we live." ~ Dr. Albert Ellis

"It is not the events but our viewpoint toward events that is the determining factor. We ought to be more concerned about removing wrong thoughts from the mind than removing tumours and abscesses from the body." ~ Epictetus

"What this power is, I cannot say. All I know is that it exists…and it becomes available only when you are in that state of mind in which you know exactly what you want…and are fully determined not to quit until you get it." ~ Alexander Graham Bell

"Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his own intelligence." ~ Albert Einstein

"The world we see that seems so insane is the result of a belief system that is not working. To perceive the world differently, we must be willing to change our belief system, let the past slip away, expand our sense of now, and dissolve the fear in our minds." ~ Gerald G. Jampolsky

"Mind is the master-power that moulds and makes, and man is Mind, and ever more he takes the tool of thought, and shaping what he wills, brings forth a thousand joys, or a thousand ills. He thinks in secret and it comes to pass; Environment is but his looking-glass." ~ James Allen

"To think health when surrounded by the appearances of disease or to think riches when in the midst of the appearances of poverty requires power, but whoever acquires this power becomes a mastermind. That person can conquer fate and can have what he or she wants." ~ Wallace D.Wattles

"All that we are is the result of what we have thought; it is founded on our thoughts; it is made up of our thoughts. A man’s life is the direct result of his thoughts… We are what we think. All that we are arises with our thoughts. With our thoughts we make the world." ~ Gautama Siddhartha (Buddha)

"We lift ourselves by our thought, we climb upon our vision of ourselves. If you want to enlarge your life, you must first enlarge your thought of it and of yourself. Hold the ideal of yourself as you long to be, always, everywhere - your ideal of what you long to attain - the ideal of health, efficiency, success.” ~ Orison Swett Marden

"Mind is the creator of everything. You should therefore guide it to create only good. If you cling to a certain thought with dynamic will power, it finally assumes a tangible outward form. When you are able to employ your will for constructive purposes, you become the controller of your destiny." ~ Paramahansa Yogananda

"Just as each plant has its foundation in the hidden soil of the earth, so too are your thoughts based in the inner part of yourself… By learning what goes into creating within the inner part of your mind and what the process of growth is for your thoughts, you can learn how to make your thoughts stronger and healthier, and enrich your existence." ~ Brad Jensen

"The soul attracts that which it secretly harbours; that which it loves, and also that which it fears; it reaches the height of its cherished aspirations; it falls to the level of its un-chastened desires. Every thought-seed sown or allowed to fall into the mind, and to take root there, produces its own, blossoming sooner or later into act, and bearing its own furtive of opportunity and circumstance. Good thoughts bear good fruit; bad thought, bad fruit." ~ James Allen

"Our subconscious minds have no sense of humour, play no jokes and cannot tell the difference between reality and an imagined thought or image. What we continually think about eventually will manifest in our lives. The first order of business of anyone who wants to enjoy success in all areas of his/her life is to take charge of the internal dialogue they have and only think, say and behave in a manner consistent with the results they truly desire." ~ Sidney Madwed

I agree! For me on the upside I get a random thought that will make me act. And on the downside the feeling makes me act or think of acting. When I am in the middle I can think logically and assess a situation but up or down has different wavelengths.

Awesome collection! This should be a sticky!

ive expressed both,it may go back and forth throughout the day :?

Babies don't have language but can still respond to things and demonstrate feelings so when we say that thoughts come first, I wonder how these appear to babies? I think it is some sort of sensory input that comes before feelings, visual, smell, touch, taste, noise and this can be real or imagined - the thinking bit is only a processing of the sensory input and isn't necessary for the feeling to be felt...but of course I may be completely wrong -

i think the neuroscientist antonio damascio differentiated between feelings and emotions. emotions are the physical sensation and feelings are the conceptual/intellectual component. so the emotion first and then the feeling/thought.

OMG are feelings and emotions different things? Think I have some more work to do with T.

SD, you just got Inge'd! (as in Brandon, i.e., sent down to the minors. T says baseball is life). Palemoss brings up a good point, I read about this too. A.D. identifies like 20 basic emotions, then the emotion plus your past experience equals your feeling about the event, then you start thinking about it. Isn't this in DBT, too?

I have to agree that it's the feeling. The feeling is really strong and then brings forth the thought. At least, from my personal experience.

My experience is described by Hydrophobic. The BP will throw my brain into the feelings, then the thoughts set in with their damnable mischief to re-inforce where I already am.

WOW - that's a lot to chew on.....you have made a good case for the thought before the feeling. For the most part I agree, but I still have this nagging idea that I do not always have control of my feelings before I think them through. Interesting input - thank you Korin

I'm sorry it was a bit long. Got a bit carried away there.

Most of us don’t have that control because most of us are unaware that we can control it to a certain extent. Relaxation and meditation can help. When we work to quieten the mind we gain more control over our thoughts.

We become more aware of them and can therefore work to exchange the more negative thoughts for positive thoughts. It takes work. I found a list of positive one-liners and affirmations help when read over and over whenever I was feeling the struggle.

I’m an expert in nothing but my own life. I only share the stuff that helps get me through the night. I also read a lot. I love reading. Reading everything I could get my hands on has been my saving grace.

Behavioral Cognitive Therapy - that's where my dilemna started. It was 2 six week intensive therapy courses (yes, I had to take it twice, for lack of understanding and follow thru). I think my main issue is that I can go from 1 to 10 in the blink of an eye, although there are times I can catch it before it skyrockets. And then when I am a 10, it's very hard to reason with your feelings. I can reflect on them all I want but they are still there and I am still at a 10. Control is not one of my strong points.

You know, I have been thinking about this some more.

For me, I honestly think it's the feeling that comes 1st.

If I get angry or dysphoric, it is a feeling and I end up listening to angry songs or going after people who have hurt me in the past.

Whenever I get hypo, I love everyone and everything. So for me, it's really the feeling that comes 1st.

Ditto. If I'm going to respond emotionally to a situation, my feelings shoot out of the starting blocks and my thoughts have to play catch up and reel me in with rationality. When I'm manic, reason doesn't get much of a look in.