[Lil Ant Lady]

For two weeks of the month i feel so alive and buzzing i cant wipe the euphoria and delerium off of me. I get likened to being "Scatty" and as "Mad as a box of frogs" But then for two weeks of the month i feel so low, depressed, anxious, suicidal at times and the feelings of chronic emptiness and despair return.

I have questioned with my psych if I possibly have a mood disorder. I suspect possibly Cyclothymia. Not full blown Bi-Polar, im not sure. But because of my Irritability I have been diagnosed BPD (Borderline). But I am asking for a second opinion as I dont suffer all the criteria and hallmark traits for BPD. I was treated as an in patient for 4 weeks back in the summer during which time i was taken off of all meds and was a complete mess I tried to OD 3 times. Life just finally got on top of me.

I just wondered what you guys feel day to day, week to week, month to month. I cycle every two weeks. Ive done mood charts and you can see it going in a wave pattern.

Im sure im ruled by the moons you know. When there is a full moon im at my worst :-/ dont know if that just coincidence tho lol

[Moose72]

I don't cycle that quickly. I'm bp 1. I feel normal sometimes, irritable others, euphoric sometimes, manic, buzzing, yet sometimes depressed. Sometimes depressed and manic together which feels buzzing and up yet depressed and very unsettled. Sometimes I hallucinate. Sometimes I'm paranoid- think people are following me. And sometimes I'm just normal. But the different states are months in between.

[BNLsMOM]

I have bipolar 1 and I cycle rapidly which can be confused for BPD. I usually go a few days up and a few days down and when I get mixed it lasts for months and I can't tell where I am on the spectrum. I get paranoid too. Right now I seem to be in a manic state, and I like it other than the fact that it has changed over to an anxious feeling this afternoon. Probably because I have nowhere to go today and it is making me want to explode.

[unaluna]

Can it be PMDD (appropriate age / gender)? Have you tried prozac (recommended for pmdd)

[Moose72]

That is how I discovered I'm bp: I was put in celexa for "pmdd" and got thrown into mania.

[Lil Ant Lady]

i have been on anti depressants for 5 years. got took off them as i was becoming more mixed as the days went by. i went to the docs as i would get extremely high and then extremely low. when i got taken off of my anti depressants back in the summer i got so crazy i ended up getting sectioned but then the hospital took that down from involuntary inpatient to vouluntary - i didnt end up getting prooperly assessed under the mental health act. the hospital kept me off meds altogether. i went really awful. hallucinating, pyschosis not a nice place at all. i then started taking mood stabilsers (Topamax) they seemed to have no effect whatsoever so now ive come off of them and gone onto Chlorpromazine (anti psychotic) to help with paranoid behaviour, severe anxiousness and irritability. I wonder about Cyclothymia over actual full blown BP as the cyclical waves are alot faster and i dont experience full blown mania - more hypomania. But my depression is quite bad when that hits

[Lil Ant Lady]

sorry what is pmdd?
the hospital checked me over for all biological causes but found nothing. they couldnt decide between Cyclothymia and BPD. finally settled on BPD when I was getting agressive over meds.

[Lil Ant Lady]

ah just checked it out. think my symptoms are a lot more sever than pmdd.
without meds i cant function properly
and incidentally i seem to have developed a mental health disorder after the birth of my first son. but ive not got post natal depression. i also at the same time developed an underactive thyroid.
im sure i have some form of chemical imbalance. seems all to coincidental to have all come together all in the space of 3 months.
and to note also... im perfectly fine during pregnancy! my pregnancy hormones seem to stabilise me. i found this with my second child. but when i gave birth to her it all came rushing back with a vengance. i dont know - it screams chemical imbalance to me. but they say this BPD is all pyscological. i know for a fact without meds... i get suicidal and have extreme pyschosis

If you were bipolar and are having psychosis it would be bipolar 1 as far I know. There is also schizoaffective disorder too to look into.

[unaluna]

I'm not up on what birth control pills are available now, but have you looked into that one that takes your period away for like a year? Cuz if you were okay while pregnant and the pill mimics that? what does your gyno say? maybe get your hormone (estrogen) levels tested? early menopause?

[Secretum]

It can be very difficult to tell the difference between ultra-ultra rapid-cycling bipolar and borderline pd. Some people even argue that BPD is itself a bipolar spectrum disorder. Both disorders are very heterogenous and present uniquely in each patient, which further complicates things!

I wouldn't worry too much over which disorder you have; it truly is an exercise in "splitting hairs". The most commonly used treatments for each disorder can help people with the other (many borderline pts are on mood stabilizers, and many bipolar pts have benefited from DBT...hmm, this seems to further support a relationship between the two illnesses...) so try to focus on treatment. Avoid antidepressants if possible.

I know that BPD has a very high stigma attached to it, so I can understand why you would want to rule it out. However, regardless of whatever your therapist (or sadly, even other people with mental health problems) think(s), borderline patients are not monsters. If it turns out that you are borderline, your illness is just as real as bipolar disorder, and it is no more a part of who you truly are than bipolar is a part of who I am. If you are actually borderline, be proud of yourself for dealing with a very serious and aggressive illness; don't be ashamed of the label.

Cyclothymia would not cause psychosis, so if you are bipolar you probably have a different type. Also, the depression experienced by cyclothymes is by definition milder than major depression. BPD can cause transient psychosis. So can mania in bipolar I and depression in both bipolar I and II. People with schizoaffective disorder experience psychosis even in the absence of mood symptoms.

I hope this helps with your differential, but try to remember that treatment is more important than diagnosis.

Are you still having thyroid problems ?

[Lil Ant Lady]

yeah i had all biological causes ruled out so hormones etc. thyroid is stable.
thanks secretum. i totally get everything you are saying. ive also asked on the BPD board about their 'behavioural' patterns.
so what response i get from that.
i just think im different from most borderlines. but possibly dont fit the bipolar side of things either. i must be an enigma! lol

[popeye]

I am a Psych Nurse and you sound like you are Bipolar I. However You need a Doc to confirm this. If I was the doc I would put you on a differnent mood stabilizer and zyprexa for the psychosis and anxiety. I don't believe you have a personality disorder.

I had an entire long response here, but my internet crapped out & I lost it!!

Abridged version: Just know you are always yourself, despite your diagnoses. And I know how alluring it can be to agonize over what's wrong with you, especially when all you want is a better understanding of yourself. You sound VERY characteristic of BPD, but as for your psychosis & cyclical patterns, you could very well be BP too. What I am curious about is why mood stabilizers don't work on you but an all-out antipsychotic works wonders. Most BP patients can usually respond to an atypical antipsychotic to stabilize their moods. But you're never going to know what's going on with you until you ask a professional. You could have a personality disorder, a mood disorder, a psychotic disorder, an anxiety disorder, or any combination of the above-- You'll never know until you see someone & you are fully transparent with them. Some people have a tendancy to forget that their doc isn't a mind reader. Hope that helps & hope you find some closure soon!! : )

[Lil Ant Lady]

thanks everyone

i am under outpatients community mental health team and have regular check ups at the mo cos im so all over the place. i guess ive only given you snippets of information too. il try and digress a little here

leading up to my hospital admission i have been a bit of a nightmare.

but for the purposes of illustration il try and do this bite size...

after being diagnosed with 'depression' i went onto anti-depressants. they worked to lift my depression but didnt do much else for the highs i was having. i would be so depressed one day i found it a struggle to do things around the house and even entertain my young children. in my high stages i would be organising lavish parties at my house,,, be the life and soul of the party,, and pretty much just float around like my feet werent even touching the floor.

before my depression would sink in id have bouts of extreme irritability,,, usually upon coming down off a high. and the slightest thing would make me cringe with almost a kind of hatred. like if my partner sneezed i would sit there and think snappily "ffs does he have to sneeze like that" and go all moody afterwards. i went onto paroxetine and that helped massively with the irritability but didnt do anything for the depression and hypomania. anyway, irritability would last a day or two and then depression would hit. crying, low self worth, not wanting to be around.

sometimes i can be so high i no what im doing is silly and i cant stop myself. things come out of my mouth and i dont feel stupid afterwards,,, even though i know what i said was idiotic upon reflection.

this week i have been so high... im on day 7 now and im sitting in the chair but i want to get up and start dancing in the living room even though there is no music. last friday i went to the cinema and an advert for a new film was on. i just stood there looking at it and started laughing my head off cos i thought it was sooo funny. but it wasnt funny... i was laughing til tears were coming from my eyes. my mate who was with me at the time said "you're as mad as a box of frogs!!" but i feel happy like abnormally happy. its like im on drugs or something lol.

i asked on the borderline page and they all mostly say this never happens to them.

other times i suffer paranoia and pyschosis. i believe things that arent even there. like i can watch jeremy kyle show (uk prog similar to jerry springer) and i convince myself what some of the subjects on there are going through is what is happening to me. ie... man takes his wife on for dna of their baby. i am fixed in the stance then that my babies dont belong to their real dad. and that he is taking me for dna tests. but i only ever slept with him so they cant be anyone elses kids. looking back i can see this is kind of like psychotic behaviour but at the time i am scared for my life that Jeremy Kyle is gonna ring me and say ive got to go on the show too. most odd. i also hallucinate -and hear voices. just random voices. or just sounds,,, like a car engine running. its all in my head like this is happening right next to my ear.

and anxiety is sky high. i actually shake when i talk because its that bad and i stutter. this is usually during depressed mode. when im high i chat for england. i laugh when im talking even though what im saying isnt funny.

basically in a nut shelll... i go from being one extreme to the other. at the moment it seems to be once a month to every 6 weeks i go from one end of the scale to another. previously to that it was probably less severe. maybe every 2-3 months. but as im getting worse its getting more prevalent. i dont know if thats because of the med changes ive had.

ive gone from paroxetine to fluoxetine
then off fluoxetine to just mood stabilisers.
then mood stabilers to mirtazipine (i get night terrors also - usually about death, someone trying to kill me)
now im off mood stabilers and just taking the chlorpromazine (anti-pyschotic) and mirtazipine.

i think it too soon to tell what is easing things. the depression really has eased since the mirtazipine has been introduced, along with sleeping better at night.
and since the chlorpormazine has been introduced my anxierty has gone right down and i havent heard any voices for a while. or even hallucinated. but the mania (or hypomnia whatever you call it) still persists.

i also started drinking really heavily towards the back end of last year and went on a short stint of using class A. but im safe to say im off the drink and drugs altogether. this helped at the time but if i was manic id end up like i was king of the land on drink and drugs. and if i was depressed... well suicidal thoughts occurred most regularly.

[Lil Ant Lady]

its funny popeye you say that as im in therapy at the moment and she doesnt believe im borderline either.