My son, I'm really worried about him. He is very intelligent and I'm afraid has developed some of my traits.

He dropped out of regular school. Then started alternative. Now he's dropped out of that. I told him it's ok if he gets his GED as long as he goes to college. Well now he is staying up all night and sleeping all day. He has a T but he hasn't been much help. His T is rather judgemental but my son likes him. He rarely makes his appointments. I want him to get a psych eval, but his therapist needs to put in the request. With me finally stabilizing. I haven't been that proactive with making sure it gets done. His T thinks it's just behavior issues anyway.

I don't know what to do. He is so pessimistic, he thinks the education system is a joke. I tell him that may be true but u have got to go to college, live your dreams. He wants to go into physics, but h e won't do anything but watch tv and surf the web. He focuses on how our society is so screwed up. I think he's suffering from depression. I don't know what to do. I'm so worried.

[aquaman]

A therapist should not be judgmental, that's not their job. You might want to consider finding a new one that spends sessions getting to the root of your son's problems. Further, it never hurts to get a second opinion.

You don't need to go to a psychiatrist for anti depressants. My family doctor prescribed me an anti depressant before I was diagnosed with BP. It might be a good place to start.

Originally Posted by aquaman

A therapist should not be judgmental, that's not their job. You might want to consider finding a new one that spends sessions getting to the root of your son's problems. Further, it never hurts to get a second opinion.

You don't need to go to a psychiatrist for anti depressants. My family doctor prescribed me an anti depressant before I was diagnosed with BP. It might be a good place to start.

If it were me I would get a new T for him in a heartbeat. But my son likes him. They only have one other male therapist there. My son wants a man. Also I think my son likes him bc honestly the therapist doesn't know what to do and doesn't challenge my son. My son is good with that. I'm not. About antidepressants my son says he doesn't want to take them bc they make him feel flat. I told him just temporarily pls for now. I think though I will make the appointment with family doc. Maybe having him talk about the antidepressant issue will make him listen more. Now how do I get him there? So frustrating.

[faerie_moon_x]

he sounds a lot like me at that age. I finished high school but then dropped out of college. Was very intelligant but didn't do anything with it. I did a lot of job hopping. I couldn't keep up with school full time, so I would always drop a class mid-semester.

I also had big dreams that went no-where.

I think my biggest issue when I look back is I didn't have any support. I didn't have anyone pushing me to do better. I went to school close to home so I could live at home. But, I really wanted to get out and live in a dorm/apartment. My dad would freak out and make it sound like I would fail. He did this to keep me home, because he didn't want to be alone. I think I really needed to get out and spread my wings, yet still know I had support at home.

I had no T. I needed one desperately, and a pdod probably, too. I was also having what seemst to be some pretty major delusions at that time. My friends all treated me like I was a moron (they weren't really my friends in the end.) Other family members couldn't or didnt' offer the support I needed. I think if my mom had been there pushing me along, I would have done better. But, I didn't have her.

So, I guess my advice is don't give up on him. Keep telling him you believe in him, that you're there for him. Listen when he needs it. Ask if there's anything you can do to help him in rough patches. Don't just let him float until he sinks which is what happened to me.

[Trippin2.0]

Maybe he is just growing up and realizing that unicorns do not poop rainbows and that in general, real (adult) life sucks.

What I mean is: responsibility, responsibility, responsibilty... who WANTS that anyway.

Maybe he's not altogether happy about moving out, maybe he's just transitioning.

Just because he seems negative doesn't mean he's depressed, and if he is depressed, doesn't mean you did anything wrong.

Just trying to offer an objective opinion without running rampant through the psychiatric route first.

Idk what you mean by his T being judgmental, sometimes people who are blunt and straightforward, come across this way.
Maybe the T is the latter and your son respects that? or maybe he is actually judgemental, either way your son doesn't seem to mind his method or manner.

Essentially its really about whether the T and patient are compatable, and not about parental approval.

I do hope he gets out of this funk soon and finds some direction.

Originally Posted by dark_heart_x

he sounds a lot like me at that age. I finished high school but then dropped out of college. Was very intelligant but didn't do anything with it. I did a lot of job hopping. I couldn't keep up with school full time, so I would always drop a class mid-semester.

I also had big dreams that went no-where.

I think my biggest issue when I look back is I didn't have any support. I didn't have anyone pushing me to do better. I went to school close to home so I could live at home. But, I really wanted to get out and live in a dorm/apartment. My dad would freak out and make it sound like I would fail. He did this to keep me home, because he didn't want to be alone. I think I really needed to get out and spread my wings, yet still know I had support at home.

I had no T. I needed one desperately, and a pdod probably, too. I was also having what seemst to be some pretty major delusions at that time. My friends all treated me like I was a moron (they weren't really my friends in the end.) Other family members couldn't or didnt' offer the support I needed. I think if my mom had been there pushing me along, I would have done better. But, I didn't have her.

So, I guess my advice is don't give up on him. Keep telling him you believe in him, that you're there for him. Listen when he needs it. Ask if there's anything you can do to help him in rough patches. Don't just let him float until he sinks which is what happened to me.

Thanks dh. Exactly what my T told me. Let him know I will ALWAYS be there for him and listen to his ideas. I really need to work on that bc I get so frustrated. He's right about a lot of it. But what I've learned is I can really only change me. I tell him he doesn't have to conform but if he wants to move out of here(USA) he needs the money to do it. So go to college don't waste that beautiful mind of yours etc. It's hard bc he is still a teenager. He thinks majority of Americans are stupid so he isolates which just makes him feel more alone, I've been there believe me. I hope he gets moving in the right direction. It is really hard to watch your child feel so alone. I know he does but he won't admit it.
He has one friend but my son and him just play video games together. My son is really into politics, philosophy, and physics. I told him u will meet likeminded ppl in college. But I don't think he believes me or he is scared. So hard to see your child like this.

[faerie_moon_x]

It's true he will find like-minded people in college. Too bad you can't get him reading like the wedsite collegehumor.com. It has a lot of really smart people on there making jokes, and a lot about society. A lot of them remind me of me at that age, LOL, so I still read it (even though I'm definately a grown , haha.) Maybe if he sees he's not the only one thinking his thoughts it will help him. Hard to believe mom could know about those types of things, tho.

Originally Posted by Trippin2.0

Maybe he is just growing up and realizing that unicorns do not poop rainbows and that in general, real (adult) life sucks.

What I mean is: responsibility, responsibility, responsibilty... who WANTS that anyway.

Maybe he's not altogether happy about moving out, maybe he's just transitioning.

Just because he seems negative doesn't mean his depressed, and if he is depressed, doesn't mean you did anything wrong.

Just trying to offer an objective opinion without running rampant through the psychiatric route first.

Idk what you mean by his T being judgmental, sometimes people who are blunt and straightforward, come across this way.
Maybe the T is the latter and your son respects that? or maybe he is actually judgemental, either way your son doesn't seem to mind his method or manner.

Essentially its really about whether the T and patient are compatable, and not about parental approval.

I do hope he gets out of this funk soon and find some direction.

Thanks for that perspective. I feel his T is judgemental towards me, haha. I shouldn't let that interfere with their relationship.

Also his therapist works with a lot of foster children. So he's always telling my son, you have a lot of support so don't play that card. He also tells my son, is this it for you? Sleeping all day and not doing anything bc the world is f***ed up? My son laughs and says I see ur point.

I baby him, T doesn't like that. Man time to let him fly. I just don't want to see him hurting. I've threatened to kick him out to see if that will motivate him doesn't though. Time for HIM to make some decisions. That's what everybody keeps saying. Stop babying him bc u feel guilty for being bipolar. Hard to do though and my family thinks my son uses that to his advantage.

Originally Posted by Trippin2.0

Maybe he is just growing up and realizing that unicorns do not poop rainbows and that in general, real (adult) life sucks.

What I mean is: responsibility, responsibility, responsibilty... who WANTS that anyway.

Maybe he's not altogether happy about moving out, maybe he's just transitioning.

Just because he seems negative doesn't mean he's depressed, and if he is depressed, doesn't mean you did anything wrong.

Just trying to offer an objective opinion without running rampant through the psychiatric route first.

Idk what you mean by his T being judgmental, sometimes people who are blunt and straightforward, come across this way.
Maybe the T is the latter and your son respects that? or maybe he is actually judgemental, either way your son doesn't seem to mind his method or manner.

Essentially its really about whether the T and patient are compatable, and not about parental approval.

I do hope he gets out of this funk soon and finds some direction.

I couldn't agree with this more. I think a lot of it has to do with the age. The kids just don't want to do the work and they get lazy. And they are moody. And they have a sense of entitlement. No electronics around when I was a kid. I had a brother like your son... 15 years later, no need for psych eval. He just doesn't put forth the effort if someone will do it for him.

Ups and downs in moods are normal with teenagers. I have one. It doesn't mean that I think she needs a psych eval. I think she can be lazy sometimes and doesn't want to hand in homework. Bright, bright kid. Straight A's. One term she was pulling D's. I knew she was capable of more. I hounded her, gave her incentives. Took away things that I know would affect her when they were out of reach. Checked online to make sure every assignment was getting in. Communicated with teachers. She pulled those D's up to A's. Still moody? yes. Could she sleep all weekend if I let her? Oh yeah. Any signs of mental illness with a cookooo mom in the house? Nope.

And this is going to sound very harsh, but I think your son is playing you.

Originally Posted by dark_heart_x

It's true he will find like-minded people in college. Too bad you can't get him reading like the wedsite collegehumor.com. It has a lot of really smart people on there making jokes, and a lot about society. A lot of them remind me of me at that age, LOL, so I still read it (even though I'm definately a grown , haha.) Maybe if he sees he's not the only one thinking his thoughts it will help him. Hard to believe mom could know about those types of things, tho.

I'm gonna tell him about that site thanks.

[Trippin2.0]

Yeah I can see where his T is coming from actually.
We cant protect our kids from everything, as much as we'd like to.

My parents baby'd me. ALOT, and as an adult I have come to realize that they crippled me to quite a large extent.

I had Jordan young, 19 when she was born. And at 19 I had never even been expected to wipe my own arse yet, but was responsible for another humanbeing! Needless to say, motherhood has been more of an adjustment for me than my peers.

Not saying you do this. Just letting you see the other side of the coin.

btw. Sounds like him and T have a good rapor, atleast he's challenging your son's thought process and decision making. Who knows, maybe he can get through to him eventually.

Also. There is ALOT of pressure on young people to figure out their lives and start building their futures.
Honestly I think its a bit much. You are born, go to little people school, childen school, adolescent school, then are told to choose what you wanna do for the rest of your life so you can go to adult school.

Graduate, THEN its time to work your arse off to pay for everything...

When do any of these kids get to LIVE? Experience life?
No wonder so many rebel or end up seriously depressed. We are humanbeings, not humandoings.

I'm not saying sit back and watch him float on by, just asking as someone who only found her career path 10 yrs after highschool, to see it from the other side.

Ohk I think I'm talking too much and may just sound like I'm lecturing you (which I'm not)

Originally Posted by Frenetic47

I couldn't agree with this more. I think a lot of it has to do with the age. The kids just don't want to do the work and they get lazy. And they are moody. And they have a sense of entitlement. No electronics around when I was a kid. I had a brother like your son... 15 years later, no need for psych eval. He just doesn't put forth the effort if someone will do it for him.

Ups and downs in moods are normal with teenagers. I have one. It doesn't mean that I think she needs a psych eval. I think she can be lazy sometimes and doesn't want to hand in homework. Bright, bright kid. Straight A's. One term she was pulling D's. I knew she was capable of more. I hounded her, gave her incentives. Took away things that I know would affect her when they were out of reach. Checked online to make sure every assignment was getting in. Communicated with teachers. She pulled those D's up to A's. Still moody? yes. Could she sleep all weekend if I let her? Oh yeah. Any signs of mental illness with a cookooo mom in the house? Nope.

And this is going to sound very harsh, but I think your son is playing you.

Hard to admit but I'm starting to think that too. But I'm not consistent, all that u said u did I try and do but then he will intimidate me till I give in. His T says call the police, but I don't want him to have a record. So hard for me. I have to stay on my meds. Call the police just thinking of him in juvy makes me cringe. But maybe he will wake up real quick. He's been arrested before. He threatened me and I did call the cops. He is supposed to be going to school and therapy and charges will be dropped. He's not doing it though.....

Time to get tough again and take tablet if he doesn't go to see about the GED Monday. ****, so hard. More than likely he will be arrested....

Originally Posted by Trippin2.0

Yeah I can see where his T is coming from actually.
We cant protect our kids from everything, as much as we'd like to.

My parents baby'd me. ALOT, and as an adult I have come to realize that they crippled me to quite a large extent.

I had Jordan young, 19 when she was born. And at 19 I had never even been expected to wipe my own arse yet, but was responsible for another humanbeing! Needless to say, motherhood has been more of an adjustment for me than my peers.

Not saying you do this. Just letting you see the other side of the coin.

btw. Sounds like him and T have a good rapor, atleast he's challenging your son's thought process and decision making. Who knows, maybe he can get through to him eventually.

Also. There is ALOT of pressure on young people to figure out their lives and start building their futures.
Honestly I think its a bit much. You are born, go to little people school, childen school, adolescent school, then are told to choose what you wanna do for the rest of your life so you can go to adult school.

Graduate, THEN its time to work your arse off to pay for everything...

When do any of these kids get to LIVE? Experience life?
No wonder so many rebel or end up seriously depressed. We are humanbeings, not humandoings.

I'm not saying sit back and watch him float on by, just asking as someone who only found her career path 10 yrs after highschool, to see it from the other side.

Ohk I think I'm talking too much and may just sound like I'm lecturing you (which I'm not)

I was babied to so that's what I know how to do. I'm the youngest of 8 so just imagine. I had him when I was 21. It's been really hard to not be a friend and instead a parent. The stakes are higher now though and he sure doesn't like me taking his stuff. Thanks for the perspective.

[Trippin2.0]

Originally Posted by passionskyy

I was babied to so that's what I know how to do. I'm the youngest of 8 so just imagine. I had him when I was 21. It's been really hard to not be a friend and instead a parent. The stakes are higher now though and he sure doesn't like me taking his stuff. Thanks for the perspective.

You're most welcome. I'm the second youngest of 6 (baby daughter) and born 9yrs after my predeccesor. So yes, I definitly can imagine the extent of babying

And yes, the stakes are higher.

Think of it this way though:
If he was 10 and said he likes junk food and from now on, no more healthy food....

Would you take notice of his "like" and feed him junk food as per his request?

I sure do hope not

My point?
what has to be done, has to be done, regardless of his likes.

And please do call the cops if the need arises, because all your refusal teaches him, is that there are no consequences for his actions and that mother is a pushover.
Tough love is a neccessary evil sometimes

I want everybody to know my son is a good kid with a big heart. He has had a mom that has had a lot of trauma and he knows he can push me around but that doesn't make him a bad guy. I've babied him to and that hasn't been good for him either. But it's time he take some responsibility. I can see that.

[Speed3]

In hindsight I wish I listened to my instincts more and not my Husband.
My son was 27, but he was still my son and I was home all day with him.

I wanted him to get a Pych evaluation and see a therapist. My husband would say he is 27 he needs to make his own decisions. Also, my husband doesn't suffer from depression or bipolar.

Instead of just casually bringing it up to Jason, I wish I would have dragged him there.

He was struggling more than either my husband or I knew. He was sick and needed treatment desperately.

I feel so guilty, I don't know how my husband just pushes it out if his mind.

Who knows If I got him into the right treatment he may still be with us.

There is great power in a mother's instinct, no matter how old our child is!
I also believe you can never tell your child that you love them too much.

Originally Posted by Speed3

In hindsight I wish I listened to my instincts more and not my Husband.
My son was 27, but he was still my son and I was home all day with him.

I wanted him to get a Pych evaluation and see a therapist. My husband would say he is 27 he needs to make his own decisions. Also, my husband doesn't suffer from depression or bipolar.

Instead of just casually bringing it up to Jason, I wish I would have dragged him there.

He was struggling more than either my husband or I knew. He was sick and needed treatment desperately.

I feel so guilty, I don't know how my husband just pushes it out if his mind.

Who knows If I got him into the right treatment he may still be with us.

There is great power in a mother's instinct, no matter how old our child is!
I also believe you can never tell your child that you love them too much.

I'm not gonna go into this that much but the standard tx for addicts fails majority of the time. I was VERY hurt by it and the ppl in it in more ways than one. Anyway I wish more ppl knew about the alternatives. Like lifering, women for sobriety, sos, rational recovery, smart recovery. Those are some healthy non shaming paths to recovery.

I'm so sorry for ur loss. I cannot begin to imagine.

[Victoria'smom]

Passionsky,

A little back story:
As I kid i was / am really smart. I dropped out of high school the day I turned old enough. Then went strait to GED. My dad did not know I dropped out until I received my GED and college admissions letter. I was really close to him so it hurt him. I wish my parents listened to everyone that said I needed help. I was drowning and they had no idea.

Please do judge your son's relationship w/ his T it may be much more challenging then you think. When your met with pessimism like, "the education system is a joke", meet it with "So, what are you going to do about it?". Take a step (or a fight) at a time GED first. Then have him test out of college courses. See if your T or GP can put in a request for an evaluation. You may want to look into a therapeutic public high school.

Originally Posted by Miguel'smom

Passionsky,

A little back story:
As I kid i was / am really smart. I dropped out of high school the day I turned old enough. Then went strait to GED. My dad did not know I dropped out until I received my GED and college admissions letter. I was really close to him so it hurt him. I wish my parents listened to everyone that said I needed help. I was drowning and they had no idea.

Please do judge your son's relationship w/ his T it may be much more challenging then you think. When your met with pessimism like, "the education system is a joke", meet it with "So, what are you going to do about it?". Take a step (or a fight) at a time GED first. Then have him test out of college courses. See if your T or GP can put in a request for an evaluation. You may want to look into a therapeutic public high school.

Thanks I'm gonna see about AD's. He likes his doc need to get him in.

[BlueInanna]

Late in the conversation but I too have a 17 yr old son, I must be same age as you. My son has different issues, but I wish I'd never called the police on him, other people told me too. Even tonight he got himself stuck in a jam needing a ride from downtown, we live up in mountains. But he's my kid not theirs, I made him wait a little but was kind, and I was firm when he called me names, reminded him I'm trying to help him out and he got himself in the situation. I have found that the T he has now and trusts and sees weekly is the best medicine so far and we've both tried many. He's also been smudging with sage and sweet grass lately and it's made a big difference in a good way. Baby steps, letting him work out things with his T, my consistency with him is my love and talking to him about whatever he wants, being kind and gentle with the criticism, tons of thanks when he does something cool on his own like dishes, cleaning, being nice to his brother. He's seemed to have turned a corner recently and making plans to get a job, GED , travel, explore his spirituality, and this is huge improvement for us. Trust your mother instinct, not every kid fits in the same or responds to punishment the same. He's your child, you know him best. That's my advice. Hang in there mama!

Originally Posted by BlueInanna

Late in the conversation but I too have a 17 yr old son, I must be same age as you. My son has different issues, but I wish I'd never called the police on him, other people told me too. Even tonight he got himself stuck in a jam needing a ride from downtown, we live up in mountains. But he's my kid not theirs, I made him wait a little but was kind, and I was firm when he called me names, reminded him I'm trying to help him out and he got himself in the situation. I have found that the T he has now and trusts and sees weekly is the best medicine so far and we've both tried many. He's also been smudging with sage and sweet grass lately and it's made a big difference in a good way. Baby steps, letting him work out things with his T, my consistency with him is my love and talking to him about whatever he wants, being kind and gentle with the criticism, tons of thanks when he does something cool on his own like dishes, cleaning, being nice to his brother. He's seemed to have turned a corner recently and making plans to get a job, GED , travel, explore his spirituality, and this is huge improvement for us. Trust your mother instinct, not every kid fits in the same or responds to punishment the same. He's your child, you know him best. That's my advice. Hang in there mama!

Thanks so much for taking the time to respond. Yeah last night we had a difficult night. I was gonna make tacos. The seasoning was like 2 months expired so he's like don't make them bc I won't eat them. So I was annoyed but what made me angry was when I was putting everything away he told me I might as well throw out the taco shells bc they will be stale soon. I just bought them. Then later he wouldn't let me listen to MY CD player.

I did call the police, bc he said he would break it if I didn't give it to him. Anyway the police came and had a long talk with both of us. Hoping that motivates him a little.....Ugh and

[BlueInanna]

Oh hun I know those nights too well so sorry it's a nightmare having to call cops on your child can't even count how many times in past 6 years for us. Those were the positive experiences for us when they would come and just talk to him and he'd cooperate and behave and prevent violence or destruction of property. I'm so glad for both of you that that is as far as it went last night.

My guy would do similar things with the taco and CD player incidents. It's like he would just get stuck in negativity and seeking some control and confrontation. My T would probably say It's an opportunity for communication and to try to work together to find a way that works for both of you. Like repeat to him what he said so that he feels heard and ask him what else could we do, Should we just try the seasoning and see if it comes out tasting okay, Calmly letting him know that in your experience taco seasoning packets usually are still okay even little while after the expiration date, Maybe try making our own seasoning with some spices we have around the kitchen, Maybe agreeing that the box taco shells do often taste a little bit stale for some reason and maybe you could toast them a bit and see if they come out tasting good and crispy, And if they taste horrible maybe you could use something else like tortillas or tortilla chips or just having then meet with some salad stuff and cheese and salsa on top of it, Let's find a way to work this out I love you and I want to have dinner with you.

I have some more ideas, hope it's not too much advice :/
But I have to get out the door to work, will write more as soon as I can

Originally Posted by BlueInanna

Oh hun I know those nights too well so sorry it's a nightmare having to call cops on your child can't even count how many times in past 6 years for us. Those were the positive experiences for us when they would come and just talk to him and he'd cooperate and behave and prevent violence or destruction of property. I'm so glad for both of you that that is as far as it went last night.

My guy would do similar things with the taco and CD player incidents. It's like he would just get stuck in negativity and seeking some control and confrontation. My T would probably say It's an opportunity for communication and to try to work together to find a way that works for both of you. Like repeat to him what he said so that he feels heard and ask him what else could we do, Should we just try the seasoning and see if it comes out tasting okay, Calmly letting him know that in your experience taco seasoning packets usually are still okay even little while after the expiration date, Maybe try making our own seasoning with some spices we have around the kitchen, Maybe agreeing that the box taco shells do often taste a little bit stale for some reason and maybe you could toast them a bit and see if they come out tasting good and crispy, And if they taste horrible maybe you could use something else like tortillas or tortilla chips or just having then meet with some salad stuff and cheese and salsa on top of it, Let's find a way to work this out I love you and I want to have dinner with you.

I have some more ideas, hope it's not too much advice :/
But I have to get out the door to work, will write more as soon as I can

No thanks so much. It really means a lot to me. We sound very alike.

Just so u know I always put the taco shells in the oven to crisp up. What he was saying is they will get stale. It is ridiculous but he won't eat cereal if it's like 2 weeks old. He is gonna have a rude awakening when he is out on his own.....

Yeah my t says to stop and go talk to him when he's behaving like that. It's hard though as u probably know bc I feel he is being so ungrateful. Even after the policeman left I said what did we learn? He's like nothing ugh.....

I so appreciate u responding, and it doesn't feel like too much advice. I need all the input I can get regarding him, lol.

[AeonDM]

"The seasoning was like 2 months expired so he's like don't make them bc I won't eat them... Then later he wouldn't let me listen to MY CD player."

I am guessing he is retaliating because of the expired seasoning. He reminds me of him. I can't eat expired food, no way.