[monochromatic]

I really can't figure out my cycling at all. I just started tracking and am realizing how erratic it is. Here is a normal week (10 high and 1 low):

Sun - 7
Mon - 3
Tues - 4
Wed - 4
Thurs - 5
Fri - 6
Sat - 1/2

Moreover, i really do "flip" into a mania or depression based on what around me is happening. Like.. bad conversation = depression. Good conversation = hypomania. I was under the impression that Bipolar is more like, a few days/weeks/months high, a few days/weeks/months low. I even thought that rapid cycling was more of an up/down/up/down thing. I feel totally unpredictable. Except that my saturdays are usually days when I tank, and sundays are normally days when I soar.

[monochromatic]

Note, Sat was 1 slash 2, not .5

Are you recording your triggers for these moods too? What has happened on those days? Even if you dont think it could be a trigger record it anyway and see if there is a pattern.

My moods are very different. My depression or hypos have to last for weeks for me to say its a bipolar mood swing.

[middlepath]

Have you been DX'ed BP? It took me awhile to figure out my rythmes, one thing i noticed was that I had BP emotions that were pronounced and eb and flow according to some undetermined pattern. My BP cycles can last weeks or months if unchecked. Then, secondarily, i am VERY sensitive to life's happenings and my day to day and moment to moment moods can shift sometimes to an uncomfortable degree. I have found it useful to seperate the two so that it doesn't just feel like my life is one big game of internal tug-of-war.

[monochromatic]

I've been in this same series of crazy for months, maybe even a year. Granted, I was/am (?) all kicked out of wack because effexor was making me mixed (or rapid?).

If I'm not in a cycle, than what am I? Is cyclothymia a more likely option? I don't really know the difference, other than cyclothymia is less severe moods.

There's definitely a pattern to the triggers, but I'm not sure what that means.

[monochromatic]

Middlepath, I don't know if it's a "hard" diagnosis, but both pdoc and tdoc are using the word a lot. It's been determined that effexor and wellbutrin make me wack, that I'm hypo sometimes and depressed sometimes, and that my emotions are very volatile. I cry at the drop of a hat, and can switch from one to the other in minutes.

Have they suggested borderline at all? Very sudden mood swings and extreme reactions to triggers are common in borderline. There are an unbelievable amount of people misdiagnosed with Bipolar.

Are you overall depressive? My emotions are more severe if I am overall depressive. I will cry more and react to triggers differently. But this is not constant, it only happens during a depressive episode.

Perhaps rating your mood differently might help also. Instead of a number system I use a diary that has boxes to tick from severe mania to severe depression, I tick the box that best suits my mood. I find this easier to manage than numbers.

[monochromatic]

I've brought it up a few times, but according to both my doctors - I'm very receptive to treatment, I am very self-reflective and can recognize my flaws, I don't have issues with anger, and my relationships are stable. They say that those qualities are not shown in people with borderline.

I do recognize, before I started effexor, a distinct period of hypomania (bought a car, got a tattoo, slept around, etc) for about 6 months, then a stable period, then a sudden period of depression where I had no idea what was happening because my life was GOOD.

I think I am more overall depressive. I like the idea of your diary - where did you get it?

I got mine from my pdoc, but it is like this one I found online -



Have you ever done DBT? That might help with your reactions to triggers - it is more effective than medication.

[monochromatic]

My tdoc (who I LOVE) isn't licensed in it, but I'm reading and doing a workbook. I'm also doing CBT, which helps a lot.

I'm definitely getting better, but I work better with data, and thats just hard to gather when I have no idea what category I fall into.

That chart is great, btw. Thanks a ton.

My guess is that these constant changes in moods are a result of your reaction to things rather than bipolar moods. The good news is, you can fix that with therapy. Soon you will be able to notice what is truly bipolar and what is a reaction to something.

Keep up the good work! If you are getting better with emotional regulation you will notice a difference in your moods very soon.

[Secretum]

It's possible that you cycle very, very rapidly. It's more common than most psychiatrists will admit. I've cycled within hours, several times before. I also have lengthier periods of mostly higher or lower mood, but it is never constant. There are always fluctuations.

Getting rid of all the serious depression made a big difference for me. Now I cycle between being elated, irritable, "normal", and occasional depression. Since the depression is rare, I don't mind the rest of the cycling. It can be uncomfortable at times, but it is better than being constantly depressed.

If you could nearly eliminate the mood that causes you the most trouble, you might find that you can tolerate any remaining cycling.

[IndieVisible]

I agree with Supernova, they seem to be reactions to triggers.

Or it is possible you are looking for some thing that is really not there. Everyone has some up's and downs all day. Most are able to handle those like shock absorbers for cars.

Please don't take what I say as a diagnosis, but I would speak to your pdoc about this as it does sound more like borderline, but it can be bipolar and your just over focused on your moods right now.

Good luck to you!

[Happy Camper]

Originally Posted by Secretum

It's possible that you cycle very, very rapidly. It's more common than most psychiatrists will admit.

I agree with that statement; during an inpatient stay, the in-house pdoc diagnosed me as mixed when I was actually having very distinct fluctuations daily for about a month. Not all of them seem to want to acknowledge how differently bipolar can present itself.

I, too, can sometimes get very emotional or reactive to my environment depending on my mood, but in the past I've also become emotionally flat for months or years in response to inner turmoil and chronic stress.

When we're exposed to these stresses and triggers over many years, I think our threshold and tolerance before experiencing a strong reaction is lowered greatly. The association between emotional sensitivity and borderline is really quite baseless. I thought I had it once, but it seems to be more about your social functioning and self image.

[loyalpickpocket]

Originally Posted by monochromatic

I really can't figure out my cycling at all. I just started tracking and am realizing how erratic it is. Here is a normal week (10 high and 1 low):

Sun - 7
Mon - 3
Tues - 4
Wed - 4
Thurs - 5
Fri - 6
Sat - 1/2

Moreover, i really do "flip" into a mania or depression based on what around me is happening. Like.. bad conversation = depression. Good conversation = hypomania. I was under the impression that Bipolar is more like, a few days/weeks/months high, a few days/weeks/months low. I even thought that rapid cycling was more of an up/down/up/down thing. I feel totally unpredictable. Except that my saturdays are usually days when I tank, and sundays are normally days when I soar.

oooh! I'm going to love your replies, I've got the bug too! I get antsy and twisted when someone my age starts to pay attention to me. From there, I'll go into happiness, followed by a normal sense of centering, then sadness, then anger at the thought that this could all be a (movie about a Jim Carrey & he doesn't know he's being filmed, it goes through his whole embarrsing life) set and then I get murderous, followed by depression and suicidality, sleepiness, and then eventually I'll get up and brush myself off to go to work.
Work helps. My Sundays are Wednesdays. i <3 u

[monochromatic]

Thanks for the replies everyone. I just saw my pdoc who agrees that yes, my sudden drops (for just a day) are not normal for bipolar. I brought up the borderline idea and she immediately dismissed it (which I feel is valid); She says my depression is so deep (but not consistent) that she still feels strongly that I have bipolar ii, but that I got thrown all out of wack by ADs, and that I need to adjust and allow my brain to settle and also get accustomed to lamictal.

I'm getting a new pdoc next month (insurance is changing) so I guess we'll see if she's got any insights.

Anyway, thanks again.

[Themeanreds]

Originally Posted by Secretum

It's possible that you cycle very, very rapidly. It's more common than most psychiatrists will admit. I've cycled within hours, several times before. I also have lengthier periods of mostly higher or lower mood, but it is never constant. There are always fluctuations.

Getting rid of all the serious depression made a big difference for me. Now I cycle between being elated, irritable, "normal", and occasional depression. Since the depression is rare, I don't mind the rest of the cycling. It can be uncomfortable at times, but it is better than being constantly depressed.

If you could nearly eliminate the mood that causes you the most trouble, you might find that you can tolerate any remaining cycling.

I have to agree with Secretum. I know someone who has BP and cycles very rapidly, yet he does not meet the criteria for BPD. Yes his mood changes are frequent, and others can trigger him, however when he found the right med combo things improved greatly.

Originally Posted by monochromatic

Thanks for the replies everyone. I just saw my pdoc who agrees that yes, my sudden drops (for just a day) are not normal for bipolar. I brought up the borderline idea and she immediately dismissed it (which I feel is valid); She says my depression is so deep (but not consistent) that she still feels strongly that I have bipolar ii, but that I got thrown all out of wack by ADs, and that I need to adjust and allow my brain to settle and also get accustomed to lamictal.

I'm getting a new pdoc next month (insurance is changing) so I guess we'll see if she's got any insights.

Anyway, thanks again.

Yeah I remember you recently came off effexor, that certainly doesnt help the situation. I hope the lamictal helps you. It sounds like you are working really hard at therapy so you will start to notice that paying off too soon. When you can start to diffuse and deal with the triggers you will notice a difference.

There are many people who ignore that triggers are causing their mood states who end up drugged up to the eyeballs with life long issues because they never address that problem. It is fantastic you acknowledge that this is not beyond your control by realising the triggers are causing it. I have faith in you! Another step closer to recovery.