Meds causing BP symptoms...

So I'm curious about something. I know that meds like anti-depressants and stimulants can mimic the symptoms of BPD. But do these things have a GREATER effect on somebody who is on the bipolar spectrum versus somebody who is not at all? Let's take a stimulant like caffeine for example (somebody alluded to this in an earlier thread). I know people who drink coffee all day and it doesn't seem to do anything. But for me.. I'm an instant spaz. But not all of the time. Sometimes it doesn't seem to do anything... but some days.. Feeling Good days: Spaz.

I drink coffee all day and it doesn't do anything. I think I'm just immune. There's a chance it just counteracts the fatigue from my meds.

I don't know that coffee is more stimulating to me as someone who has BP. When I'm up, I drink about the same amount as when I'm down (a few cups most days, some none at all). But when I'm up, the hypo characteristics are there. I don't think they would be lesser if I wasn't drinking the coffee; similarly, I'm not any more animated when I'm depressed if I have coffee or don't.

That's one of the challenges of meds, I think, in general. You can never really tell what you'd be like at that moment if you weren't on them, or if you're not taking any you can't tell what you'd be like at that moment if you were. It's all conjecture, though most see a difference in experience of symptoms over time that lets them know whether the meds are improving their symptoms or not.

At the risk of speculating about something I can't prove, sure, someone on the bipolar spectrum could have a higher-than-average sensitivity to certain medications, caffeine, and street drugs.

Thanks folks. One of the reasons I ask is the idea of 'normal' people who say.. have a situational type depression and one way or the other get diagnosed with some form of BP.. and then, through the meds, become BP.

Its a good thing coffee doesn't do anything to me because I drink a ton of it. I drink so much that most of the Starbucks employees here see me and automatically know what to make for me. I still have to train all the new employees though. They will get it eventually lol.

I did have a bad experience with Seroquel though. They gave it to me when I came out of the hospital for mania. That stuff either made me even more manic, or didn't help at all, but the long and short of it I wound up back in the hospital for a second time during that manic episode.

Anti-depressants in a bipolar person does not go well. They may trigger the person to go manic.

Well.. one thing that occurred to me is that it ISN'T the coffee spazzing me out.. it's just that I'm likely starting to go a little hypo. This makes more sense than coffee only occasionally making me feel like that.

The coffee thing was a little off track on what I was trying to get from this though. My main interest was in psych meds or stimulants such as adderall being prescribed to 'normal' people...

Some meds have certainly triggered episodes for me. Both going on them and coming off. My T has noticed this. I have to be monitored closely whenever I change meds. For example going on some AD's can make me hypomanic and going off them can make me mixed. However, right now I am a month into being on Cymbalta and it has not made me hypo at all. I am still depressed and exhausted but maybe slightly better. Meds are weird. We never know how we will react.

I can't take AD's they fling me right into a hellish mess. Coffee? I can drink that day and night and it has zero effect on me.

Everyone reacts differently to everything.

Wellbutrin made me really hypo, that was the the first clue to getting my bipolar dx. Adderal was the last med added to my cocktail, and to be honest I don't feel the upper affects at all, all I notice is I am less cranky in the afternoon which is why it was added so I guess it's working.

There is much much more to both mania and depression than, for instance, spazing out on coffee. The two, mania and tripping out on coffee, IMO simply cannot be comparred due to there being so many differences. It would be easy to tell someone who received a stimulant apart from someone with mania. However, ADs can cause mania in some with BP.

Tucson

Oh yes totally. I shouldn't have mentioned the coffee. I'm not saying coffee makes people manic.. I just meant more sensitive to it. I certainly don't get goal oriented on coffee. :-) But some days the buzz hits way harder and faster... .and my hypothesis is that this happens on days where I'm already waking up a little hypomanic...

As to the other meds... there is.. what do you call it.. Bipolar III? that is supposed to be med induced I guess.

I was on Adderall for a long time until I got my bipolar diagnosis. What a waste that was. I had a killer buzz for like a week.. and then I basically forgot about it as it just went into the background. And no noticeable effect on my attention span at all.

I understand what you're getting at - is it possible that for some neuro-typical people to take certain meds for one reason or another and have that 'make' them bipolar?

I know some people get their BP diagnosis when they've been prescribed anti-depressants, and then it launches them into mania. The mental health world tends to see this as an indicator of undiagnosed BP prior to the ADs. Are you wondering if maybe it's the other way around? That the BP didn't exist until the ADs caused it?

I don't know the answer to that question. I know for me, learning about BP2 after my T first suggested that possibility to me shone a huge light on my entire life experience. It was the first time so much of my past made sense to me. Meds didn't bring me to the point of diagnosis, and I can identify many BP episodes in my youth prior to the first med I ever took. I think many of us can identify long-standing markers of the BP in our past prior to diagnosis.

I don't know what the experience has been like for those who don't think they experienced any BP symptoms prior to meds.

Yes. I have no idea where it is now.. but I read some kind of editorial by a psychologist who seemed to think that bipolar II was being over-diagnosed due to people's response to anti-depressants. His opinion was that there is absolutely no scientific evidence for a predisposition to BP. Now it could be that this was dated information. He could be alone in this. I hoping to feel the pulse of people here with regard to this.

I was diagnosed with BP after having been prescribed Zoloft (50mg) for depression.. while at the same I was still taking Adderall (25mg). But I don't THINK that the meds have lead to this BP diagnosis. I've lived a life that some might say is textbook bipolar behavior (no full mania.. only hypo).

Anyway.... I guess I'm still trying to wrap my mind around all of this.

There's an interesting book called "Why am I still depressed?" You can read a short summary/reaction here: Why am I still depressed? (Bipolar 11 and Soft Bipolar)

In this book, the author discusses in great detail the entire bipolar spectrum. He proposes a theory that some people don't experience hypomania or mania at all, but instead only experience depression and awful mixed states, where the awful mixed states are mistaken for severe depression. As a result, when a bipolar person who only experiences depression and mixed states is given an antidepressant, it flings them into hypomania or mania. It is the first time they have ever experienced a pure "up".

So tl;dr... the author discusses how he believes bipolar disorder can exist without the "ups", and uses that theory to explain why some "normal" people become hypo/manic from ADs. It's a great book.

Sometimes I think zoloft turned me bp. Before that I'm pretty sure I'd only experienced depression.

So I don't know. It's interesting though.

I'm the same...prozac started it all for me I feel like I only had depression before but prozac through me over the edge

Okay.. great. I really appreciate it. I'm pretty hypomanic on BP research and reading right now. :-)

I'm sure that I was in an intense mixed state when I had my little episode that led to the hospital earlier this summer. It took me several days to recall everything.. but I remember watching the moonlight and wind blowing trees and feeling a bit euphoric.. but also the mantra 'I don't belong' running through my head.

I've now learned to identify these mixed states. When I'm hypomanic in that irriated/agitated mode... I hum a certain tune over and over again. I've been in a more pleasant and awesome state for a week or so and it occurred to me... I'm not humming that damn tune.

As to depression/mania before this summer ... well this is all new to me and if I look back on my life I'm certain that I was experiencing hypomania when I started and quit the major chapters of my life with all the corresponding financial issues, failed relationships and depression.

Anyway... will look that book up right now.

Even though I've had AD induced hypomania/mania (between November of last year and January of this year) and 4yrs ago on Effexor, I did show signs of BP before ever taking any meds, I told my psychiatrist that I was showing signs as.early as.10yrs old (cleaned my whole house at 2am and obsessively brushed my teeth every 10mins, amd got only 2hrs of sleep before going to the beach the next day, and that is only one example). I had the same teacher for 5th and 6th grade and she noticed BP symptoms in me also. But at the age of 13 I was only dx'ed MDD, severe, after 24 days in the hospital, they said they ruled out BP, idk, but things got worse in the past 4yrs with my moods, hypomanias amd depressions, then my first real dysphoric mania last year, a sui attempt, and 21 days in a PHP program, I was finally dx'ed BP1 (asked towards the end of my stay, BP1 because of delusions) because of SH and SI they could have easily dx'ed me with BPD, but neither the psych in the PHP program or my current psychiatrist have dx'ed me as BPD (though I do have traits, I won't deny that), so it's BP1 after about 11yrs of being misdiagnosed as MDD, and showing signs in childhood.

(Note: did not read other responses just yet). I drink caffeine all day and I'm just so used to it but pdoc hates it. As far as meds go, I know steroids cause symptoms and certain cold meds have a small amount of AD in them. You're right about stimulants though. I highly against BP people taking them because a crooked pdoc gave them to me before and it was very very bad. I abused them to keep that high which to me felt just like hypo. And then when I stopped taking them I had to be put on ADs because they drain the chemicals in your brain when you abuse them like I did. Talk about the worst depression ever!