[still_crazy]

I'm blessed to be on helpful treatments. I like my counselor. I'm making progress, both according to the "experts" and my own assessment. having said that...

...doesn't it seem like Mental Health, Inc. --creates-- "mental patients" ? And victims? I breezed into a psychiatrist's office, age 18, with problems I could have dealt with, had I been given proper guidance and if someone had...I dunno...helped me grow up. By age 23, I'd been through dependence on both benzodiazepines and prescription amphetamines. Not only were these drugs given to me by psychiatrists, I was blamed for the prescriptions when I was put in a (private, for profit) hospital, age 20. "treatment" was punitive and painful.

Age 23, I was more or less on the rubbish heap of society, so when I went nuts, shrinks in a "high quality" hospital gave me heavy shock treatments, without my consent. I've only now recovered, which is a miracle.

My personal story aside...I'm not the only one. The therapists and counselors have to keep the income stream going, so they warp your mind and create a lifelong customer, plus they label you. The psychiatrists have their dogma and pills and shock treatments to destroy your ability to self-regulate, and again: labels and stigma.

I'm --not-- saying mental distress, even straight up madness, isn't real. It is, obviously. But is psychology and psychiatry really the way to deal with it?

For the record, I'm not all that angry, not now. I do this vitamin thing...Orthomolecular...along with my Rx treatments. I'm remarkably lucid, normal, healthy, etc. I've been blessed with what I need and a little extra in life, and I'm moving forward. Its just..

...I can't help but feel that Mental Health, Inc. is a bunch of lies, stigma, control, and straight up fraud. I dunno.

What do you think?

[Ripose]

I think you are right on with your description, I can't think of anything to add.

[wildflowerchild25]

I think it can be but I don't think it is for everyone. I used to think bipolar was a throwaway dx that they tacked on everyone, and I do still feel it is over diagnosed. I think a lot of people are dealing with things like trauma and stuff that they need to do hard work in therapy for and they either don't realize it or don't want to, so they take pills instead. However, I know bp is a real dx now. There's no doubt in my mind that I have it. And I need medication to function normally. I've been lucky enough to have a good experience with the mental health system so I don't feel as strongly against it as many people here seem to.

[LucyG]

I agree with you.

While there are people who need medical care, we're to the point in our society where everything is a mental illness and requires treatment. Kids that fight with their parents are now labeled as having oppositional defiant disorder and put on meds. Again, I'm sure there are some very extreme cases here, but probably 90% of the cases are just kids who are going through the normal teenage rebellion as they find themselves. I fought with my mother constantly, and now we have a good relationship.

The medical profession needs to put and keep people on meds, and in the system. Big Pharma's goal is to get everyone on at least one med they have to take for the rest of their life so they have a continual income stream from those drugs. Blood pressure and cholesterol are how they trap middle-aged people, and most people don't know that suicide is linked to extremely low cholesterol. The medical profession has also changed the blood pressure ranges so more people fall into the range of needing to be on meds. They don't care about the nasty side-effects some of these meds cause like chronic coughing because the meds block the lungs ability to utilize a certain enzyme. This is what happened to my husband. He got put on one of these meds, and within 2 days sounded like he'd smoked 4 packs of cigarettes for 40 years when he's never smoked a day in his life. Had I not realized it was a side-effect, I would have insisted he have a lung X-ray. He went off the meds as he was coughing so bad he couldn't sleep.

The other thing that kills me about the medical profession is that doctors aren't trained to match symptoms to causes like nutritional deficiencies but to drugs. They aren't building your health up, they're managing your disease.

Trauma medicine is fabulous, and has saved thousands of peoples' lives. I commend people who work in that.

[mindwrench]

Trying to receive only that which you need, without being given that which is deemed necessary in the industry is like trying to walk a tight rope while drunk. Telling the truth and revealing your demons is all too often damning evidence in their case to impose their agendas and alter your mind as they deem necessary all with the assumed backing of society in general.

I've thought like this off and on for years. I would always quit therapy and stop medication for this very reason.

You touched on something I wish to expand on and hope you don't mind. My whole life I've been told "don't be a victim" ....this message is passionately chanted amongst the masses. I bought into it with passionate conviction. I stopped therapy at 15 and told them "you just want me to hate and blame my parents when it's my fault". I wasn't falling for it. I was too clever....I wasn't a victim and made my own choices. Flash forward 25 years and I'm finally accepting that I am a victim. I'm a survivor too, but absolutely 100% was and still am a victim. The victimization doesn't go away just by labeling it "survivor". I hopefully won't remain a victim, but truly recognizing I am one and really allowing that to soak in is VITAL if I'm ever going to make any real progress. I hear people on here say "therapy never helped me" and others who say "My therapist saved my life". I hope I'm in the saved camp as therapy is the only real hope I have left at this point.

I try to rarely use words like "never" or paint anything with too broad a brush stroke. There are good and bad aspects when it comes to mental health services. Some doctors are in it for the money but most I feel want to help. It's not a career people go into solely for money in most cases.

At age 15 I had a therapist who gave me her home phone number, said to call anytime and even offered to pick me up if I needed it. I wish I would have stuck with her but we moved hours away. I think my life could look very different right now if I had stuck with her. But who knows....perhaps denying my victimhood for so long kept me striving in a way. Perhaps I never would have been employed for 20 years, finished training or went to college if I had embraced that label at the time. But honestly, I feel I probably would have been much better off by accepting reality as it was, rather than the sugar coated version I imagined and protected.

I'm very sorry for all you were put through. It sounds just awful and barbaric and I'm truly sorry it happened to you.

In closing, I'd like to say "I'm a victim". I know this makes some people uneasy or consider me whiny and an excuse maker but that is their reality.....I need to live in my reality with my truths and while I don't intend to stay one forever, it's about time I recognize the truth that's been staring me in the face for decades.

((Hugs to anyone whose been mistreated by medical professionals or anyone else for that matter)))

[st0psign]

its a money making scheme, I had a more detailed post on another thread. but bottom line is more clients more pills more money.

Originally Posted by still_crazy

What do you think?

I think you're on to something. I think a pdoc may have slipped up and accidentally prescribed you The Red Pill.

Originally Posted by still_crazy

The psychiatrists have their dogma and pills and shock treatments to destroy your ability to self-regulate, and again: labels and stigma.

Our respective psychopathologies, not 'the psychiatrists', robbed us of our ability to self-regulate, and with it our identities and our credibility, autonomy, and dignity. Don't forget the pharmaceutical companies, who profit fabulously from our plight.

[Espurr1989]

Sometimes I get thoughts like this, but pretty soon after, I wonder if it's sort of a delusion that stems from the bipolar. I've heard stories about people stopping treatment and medicine and I think that if I let myself entertain those thoughts for long, I will be getting rid of my pills. I'm too scared to gamble on that right now, but since I am at the point right now where I feel like everything will be okay, it doesn't bother me much. I'll just keep doing what I need to do to keep moving along. As hard as it can be for family and friends to accept our mental illness, they sure do raise a fuss when we start agreeing with their certain assumptions and express a desire to live as a person without mental illness since we're being treated as and given the expectations of one. Maybe it's all for the best.

[Spaceyspace]

I'm sorry for your story. I can relate. I had trauma at age 12. The treatment my parents sent me to said I was depressed and needed antidepressants. The pdoc said I was bipolar and I started lithium at that age. I didn't start trauma therapy yntil my mid 3os. Throughout those in between years I was given obscene amounts of klonopin by doctors which I needed up abusing (taking too much) I've had ectopic and it was mentioned upon a first consult at a inpatient stay.

I wish something natural would help my bipolar symptoms. For ptsd I'm very engaged in therapy art yoga and meditation.

[PenguinExMachina]

As someone in this industry, hopefully I can help shed some light. With all occupations, there will be the good guys and the bad guys. However, for all of us, we are bound by the restrictions and the rules that are constantly being set on us by the higher ups. You wouldn't believe some of the crap we have to do, because insurances say. Like diagnoses on the first session. That's labeling someone after only one hour of knowing them. It's ridiculous.
It's the system. It needs a major change.
Psychologists, therapists, and the like, they aren't the problem. Trust me, we don't get into this for the income. It's the bureaucracy. It's insurances. It's the government that doesn't understand and probably never will.

[wiretwister]

rule one ... you must be your own advocate . period. ....

rule two ... no pdoc ever "cured" anyone .... their business is pills .... like a grocer selis you food ... a pdoc sells you pills ...

rule three ... no one in the "business" has any financial reason to want to let you go ... you are there income ..

rule four .... never become cynical ! .... Tigger humor ..

[BipolarMama31]

I really agree with a lot of your post OP.

I want to add something to this....

Ones care and treatment and opportunities to succeed depend largely on their financial situation. I say this because I have an experience.
My husband got super sick and over a year and a million local doctors no one could help him. My family paid for him to go to the mayo clinic for over a week, and he got the best care imaginable. With a diagnosis and a treatment plan.

If we didn't have great insurance, or family to pay the plane and hotel costs, idk where he would be today.

[still_crazy]

money and social status (which is a combo of a bunch of factors...prestige, education levels, etc.) --definitely-- have played a big role in the treatment I've received.

When I started this journey, I was the 17/18 year old, bright, somewhat precocious offspring of respectable, white collar, middle class professionals. Good enough to be treated OK, but then...not so much. Middle class respectability only goes so far, I suppose.

Now...I'm considered a "genteel mental patient" because my people are now on the more affluent end of (I guess...) the middle class. At any rate, they're above "middle class respectability," but not rich. They're also well-educated, established, blah blah blah.

Its strange...I get disability, in large part because the shock "treatments" left me unable to do much of anything for a while there (notice how the government has to pick up the tab for shrinks' behavior, and then the patient is called a "parasite" ?), and I now go to a community mental health clinic. And yet...

...because I now have my people solidly behind me and they're somewhere above middle class, I get treated with decency, compassion, I get some input into my treatment, I've been labeled "Bipolar I," not all that crazy alphabet soup (ODD, NPD, OCD, GAD, APD, etc.) stuff from before. I've also now been spared the label of "Schizophrenia," which is what my small, southern community has labeled me (note: "Schizophrenia" isn't a diagnosis; its a label and a social role...), and..basically...

...as "treatment" goes, I get decent care. I get the sort of care that people in severe distress need, but (it seems...) few of us actually get. You get about as much compassion as you can afford --or-- as much as you "deserve," based on social status and other variables.

Its lame, to say the least.

I should also note that social status (or, in my case, my loving, long suffering family's social status) affects --everything-- . I'm now diagnosed "Bipolar I." My IQ estimate has been raised from the 120 pre-shock "treatment" estimate (I don't know how high it is now, just...its been raised higher, so I guess its outside the usual range of error on these sorts of estimates...). The psychiatrist books me for 30 minute talk sessions (this is an over-booked, community mental health clinic, btw). If I seem somewhat out of sorts, or if I forget to brush my hair, I get booked to see the shrink in 8 weeks. If I seem a-OK, its 12 weeks. Some people at this clinic go far longer w/o seeing the psychiatrist.

I'm not saying "madness" or distress aren't real, or even that the psychiatric drugs don't help some people, at least for a season. I'm saying...my experiences have led me to believe that this is not real medicine, and not real "help," either, at least not for a lot of us. And that disturbs me.

[Kuras]

There are shady doctors and workers, just as there are in any field. There are also extremely kind and compassionate ones who genuinely want to see a patient's condition improve as much as possible so they can live and thrive.

I've attempted suicide more times than I care to admit. I've lived with crippling paranoia an delusions. Hallucinations have put me in some of the most deranged places I can imagine. When my diagnosis was put on track in my 20's and I started receiving proper medication, my life improved exponentially. Do I still have struggles? Absolutely. But I'm finally making progress towards my goals and ambitions, and even outdoing others in performance and workload (as a BP-SZA no less). I've had 3 primary psychiatrists since entering my 20's, all of which have treated me with the greatest dignity and respect. And all of which have sought to find ways to effectively treat with the least amount of medication possible.

Psychiatry isn't an exact science by any stretch of the imagination. There's a lot of trial-and-error. We're still a long way from fully understanding the brain - an insanely complex machine. But psychiatry gave me my life back and my socio-economic status is nothing to write home about. Again, I will not argue that the field is without terrible people who have no business practicing it. But I'm not going to paint everything with the same brush. My real bone to pick is with the state of the pharmaceutical industry.

[Gabyunbound]

Originally Posted by still_crazy

money and social status (which is a combo of a bunch of factors...prestige, education levels, etc.) --definitely-- have played a big role in the treatment I've received.

When I started this journey, I was the 17/18 year old, bright, somewhat precocious offspring of respectable, white collar, middle class professionals. Good enough to be treated OK, but then...not so much. Middle class respectability only goes so far, I suppose.

Now...I'm considered a "genteel mental patient" because my people are now on the more affluent end of (I guess...) the middle class. At any rate, they're above "middle class respectability," but not rich. They're also well-educated, established, blah blah blah.

Its strange...I get disability, in large part because the shock "treatments" left me unable to do much of anything for a while there (notice how the government has to pick up the tab for shrinks' behavior, and then the patient is called a "parasite" ?), and I now go to a community mental health clinic. And yet...

...because I now have my people solidly behind me and they're somewhere above middle class, I get treated with decency, compassion, I get some input into my treatment, I've been labeled "Bipolar I," not all that crazy alphabet soup (ODD, NPD, OCD, GAD, APD, etc.) stuff from before. I've also now been spared the label of "Schizophrenia," which is what my small, southern community has labeled me (note: "Schizophrenia" isn't a diagnosis; its a label and a social role...), and..basically...

...as "treatment" goes, I get decent care. I get the sort of care that people in severe distress need, but (it seems...) few of us actually get. You get about as much compassion as you can afford --or-- as much as you "deserve," based on social status and other variables.

Its lame, to say the least.

I should also note that social status (or, in my case, my loving, long suffering family's social status) affects --everything-- . I'm now diagnosed "Bipolar I." My IQ estimate has been raised from the 120 pre-shock "treatment" estimate (I don't know how high it is now, just...its been raised higher, so I guess its outside the usual range of error on these sorts of estimates...). The psychiatrist books me for 30 minute talk sessions (this is an over-booked, community mental health clinic, btw). If I seem somewhat out of sorts, or if I forget to brush my hair, I get booked to see the shrink in 8 weeks. If I seem a-OK, its 12 weeks. Some people at this clinic go far longer w/o seeing the psychiatrist.

I'm not saying "madness" or distress aren't real, or even that the psychiatric drugs don't help some people, at least for a season. I'm saying...my experiences have led me to believe that this is not real medicine, and not real "help," either, at least not for a lot of us. And that disturbs me.

I agree with much of what you say, but I think more may be based on geography rather than economic status. I used to work at Mass General Hospital (usually ranked #1 or #2 in the nation) and mostly with Medicaid patients. So because they happened to live in the area, they were able to get the best care there is, despite being poor.

Now I work at Stanford's children's hospital, and the same thing, my patients (and a substantial number of the patients treated at the hospital) have Medicaid, but are able to be treated at such a prestigious hospital because of where they live. They can't afford to live in the Bay Area where Stanford is, but if their local doctors (a couple of hours away) refer them to specialists at Stanford, their Medicaid pays for it.

So I think where one lives, whatever your economic status (or, as long as you qualify for Medicaid or Medicare) plays a huge role in the care you receive. No doubt those who live relatively near the Mayo Clinic get great care just because they happen to live in that area.

I've been to the ER while being dressed up and presentable and other times when I was very sick, unwashed and less presentable. The way I was treated at the SAME hospital was very eye opening. I don't think this always happens but social status and appearance can and does sometimes impact the care you receive. It's a sad but true reality.

[Gabyunbound]

Originally Posted by ElsaMars

I've been to the ER while being dressed up and presentable and other times when I was very sick, unwashed and less presentable. The way I was treated at the SAME hospital was very eye opening. I don't think this always happens but social status and appearance can and does sometimes impact the care you receive. It's a sad but true reality.

That's SO sad, makes me mad Especially -it could be that- the more unkempt you are, the more vulnerable you are and, if anything, the more they should be treating you well.

[Sad Mermaid]

There is no Mental Health, Inc., though - there is no monolithic corporation. And as for financial incentives, they may be a good thing.

For instance, I had a bad psychiatrist in a big clinic where he received a salary and where his income was not directly related to how well I feel. He disregarded obvious suicidality, failed to diagnose depression, and "fed" me Risperdal which made me feel worse than I had ever felt without drugs.

I transferred my care to a private practitioner whose income is directly related to how well I feel, and together, working as a team, we are designing the optimal treatment scheme for me, and I am doing great. He earns the fee I pay him; he is not a salaried employee.

[BipolarMama31]

Originally Posted by Sad Mermaid

There is no Mental Health, Inc., though - there is no monolithic corporation. And as for financial incentives, they may be a good thing.

For instance, I had a bad psychiatrist in a big clinic where he received a salary and where his income was not directly related to how well I feel. He disregarded obvious suicidality, failed to diagnose depression, and "fed" me Risperdal which made me feel worse than I had ever felt without drugs.

I transferred my care to a private practitioner whose income is directly related to how well I feel, and together, working as a team, we are designing the optimal treatment scheme for me, and I am doing great. He earns the fee I pay him; he is not a salaried employee.

I'd have to point out to your post, did he get kick backs from the drug reps?
If no, then I totally agree, he was just bad at his job.

[Sad Mermaid]

Originally Posted by BipolarMama31

I'd have to point out to your post, did he get kick backs from the drug reps?
If no, then I totally agree, he was just bad at his job.

That I do not know. But since Risperdal is an old drug (unlike the much newer Geodon that helps me), it is unlikely that anyone from the drug companies would push Risperdal on him.

[BipolarMama31]

Gotcha. Sorry for such a bad experience

[still_crazy]

I dunno. I'm blessed because I am on drugs that have the needed effects and do not cause major adverse effects. I also live in a safe, secure, comfortable environment, eat nutritious food, get to do some things I want to do...I even get to play around with alternative mental health (I'm into Orthomolecular right now...good times...).

But I can't help but wonder: am I just a content "mental patient" ? My people take care of me. Not ideal, but...that's the current situation. They're more "genteel" now or whatever, and I think...if it was just me, living off not much in disability, would the drugs "work" as well? Would I end up living in a Thorazine haze because of "symptoms" combined with low social status, oppression, and everything else?

Psychiatry also isn't all that scientific. Maybe I've just run into some bad docs, but I've had "professionals" use the drugs as punishment, or try to, anyway. Not "good enough" for drug x, so I was prescribed drug y, and my experience of adverse effects didn't matter because...I was a "trouble maker," "not good enough," not "worth their time," etc.

I'm not so sure my experience is all that unusual. One of the "professionals" who did those things to me and generally made my life a living hell, both inside the hospital and out in the community, is widely regarded as "one of the best psychiatrists in (local city)."

I dunno. I guess...I'll focus on an attitude of gratitude. My life is more comfortable and meaningful than it was in years past, and I have more support than I ever did before. With the economy the way it is, I'm blessed to be on disability, going to school, etc.

And yet...I have a lot of questions, even now...

[Unrigged64072835]

I don't know if it's a trap or not. I've seen things from both sides. I just think it's up to the individual to decide whether to take the drugs or not. I've had my fair share of bad professionals. I have a good therapist and a good pdoc now. My meds are working (although they probably could use a tweak). I've felt better than I have in the past. So it works for me.

[mossanimal]

ughhh... This thread is depressing for somebody new to all of this. So far I feel like the medications have made things worse.. and possibly the label too. But there is no doubt I've had serious issues before all of this. I ended up in the hospital before I was diagnosed with anything other than ADHD.

Partly for some of the reasons brought up in this thread I've decided to get off all meds other than lamictal to see how it goes. I agree on how therapy is probably a great way to go for me... but I don't see many options for that. I live in the most depopulated area in the lower 48 and none of the doctors or therapists seem equipped to deal with me.