I have a very close friend who has bipolar I. She does not have a computer, and has been asking my support and advice. She lives in a "senior and disabled" apartment building. For 15 years she was friend with a woman I'll call Betty. They live in the same apartment building. I'll call my friend Amanda. Betty also has bipolar. Amanda works very hard to manager her disability. She goes to a psychiatrist and therapist regularly, as she has done for years and years. Betty does nothing of the sort.

A couple of years ago, Betty turned against Amanda. Betty started screaming at Amanda, calling her terrible names, blocking her bath in the elevator so Amanda could not escape from Betty and leave the elevator. At one time, Betty ran over Amanda's foot with her electric wheel chair cart. Unfortunately, Amanda ALWAYS reacts in kind. One time, Betty hit Amanda (not for the first time) and Amanda hit Betty in the face and broke her glasses. That resulted in each of them filing for a restraining order against the other one. Amanda was not granted the restraining order by the judge but Betty got her restraining order against Amanda. Both of them were given 6 months notice to move out unless they stopped harassing each other.

My dear friend Amanda swears she never starts the fights.

Yesterday she called and was again very upset. Betty had again blocked Amanda's way out of the elevator. Betty screamed ugly insults. Amanda screamed back that Betty was a "fat, ugly, crippled *****." Amanda says Betty is basically trying to find Amanda in the building and harass her.

I urged Amanda to go to her therpapist. I know they've been working on Amanda's anger issues for years anyway. And I encouraged her, again, that Amanda do the "No Contact Rule," and never to even look at Betty. I gave her other "good advice," too, that I have learned over the years.

BUT WHO AM I TO GIVE HER ADVICE??? You all know what a terrible time I have with rage about electronics!!!

Both of us plan to ask our doctors for med changes.

What can my friend to to get this horrible woman off her back?

Remember -- they live in the same 5 story building. Plus, a small group of them have meals at a long table in the building. They sit at opposite ends of the table.

[Sunflower123]

WOW!! What a story. This will sound strange coming from me but even though I think Betty is a horse's ***, there's nothing you can do unless Amanda stops engaging at the provocation. Encourage her strongly never to respond and if there are witnesses then to respond in a frightened manner. Betty will be the one leaving. Maybe her pdoc can give her something to calm her down. I'd hate to see her lose where she lives over Betty's nonsense. That's basically what Betty wants. Best wishes and let me know how it goes. Another path might be getting them to sit down and have a heart-to-heart and work it out. Just a thought.

[luvyrself]

Originally Posted by Jennifer 1967

WOW!! What a story. This will sound strange coming from me but even though I think Betty is a horse's ***, there's nothing you can do unless Amanda stops engaging at the provocation. Encourage her strongly never to respond and if there are witnesses then to respond in a frightened manner. Betty will be the one leaving. Maybe her pdoc can give her something to calm her down. I'd hate to see her lose where she lives over Betty's nonsense. That's basically what Betty wants. Best wishes and let me know how it goes. Another path might be getting them to sit down and have a heart-to-heart and work it out. Just a thought.

---response. No offense, but Amanda may be milking this to get your sympathy. I had a very dear friend who did a lot for me who had a lot of problems with the truth. However, if this is true, Amanda needs to report this to someone who will pull Betty's privileges until she shapes up.

Originally Posted by Jennifer 1967

WOW!! What a story. This will sound strange coming from me but even though I think Betty is a horse's ***, there's nothing you can do unless Amanda stops engaging at the provocation. Encourage her strongly never to respond and if there are witnesses then to respond in a frightened manner. Betty will be the one leaving. Maybe her pdoc can give her something to calm her down. I'd hate to see her lose where she lives over Betty's nonsense. That's basically what Betty wants. Best wishes and let me know how it goes. Another path might be getting them to sit down and have a heart-to-heart and work it out. Just a thought.

Dear Jennifer -- thank you SO MUCH for your ideas! This one is definitely what I will tell Amanda right away: "encourage her strongly never to respond and if there are witnesses then to respond in a frightened manner." But, FYI, the experts say NEVER engage in a meditation or any other type of one-on-one conversation with a bully. Why, you may ask? Well, see, it is like this. Let's say You are the one being bullied (in some situation or other), and X person is the bully. You or someone wants the two of you to get, for instance, mediation. So, You are very open to the moderator and the Bully in the session that is designed for the two of you to come to some sort of agreement or resolution to the problem. The Bully APPEARS or PRETENDS to be sincere and open. But they are deliberately TRICKING both of you. And perhaps lying, too. The result of this is: The Bully has now learned A LOT MORE ABOUT YOU. That is why the Bully agreed to the collaboration/mediation, or whatever. They wanted to "get more stuff" about you, your feelings, your life, what types of things bug or frighten you... so that they can DO THESE THINGS TO YOU. I advised my friend to call the hotline for age and disability for advice.. This organization will send out a social worker. But I told Amanda to be sure that the social worker does not manipulate her into doing some sort of discussion between Amanda and Betty. (From my own experience with a social worker or whoever it was the organization sent out when I was being bullied by a whole family related to my late [horrible] husband -- the person they sent was 100% incompetent. I told Amanda to be sure that whoever was sent to talk to her be competent, or else to reject the help from that person and ask the organization for someone else.) I advised Amanda never to agree to any face-to-face negotiation with Betty.

Originally Posted by luvyrself

---response. No offense, but Amanda may be milking this to get your sympathy. I had a very dear friend who did a lot for me who had a lot of problems with the truth. However, if this is true, Amanda needs to report this to someone who will pull Betty's privileges until she shapes up.

Dear luvyrself, you could be right about this: "milking this to get your sympathy." That's a possibility, I know, because she keeps ON AND ON getting herself into these same types of situations. What do you suggest I do? As for this: "Amanda needs to report this to someone who will pull Betty's privileges until she shapes up." That has already happened more than once BUT, as I wrote in my first post on this thread (I hope clearly?) the two of them both report each other to the apt. manager, accusing each other, filing for restraining orders, and on and on and on. Plus, Amanda has had similar problems in every apt complex she has lived in, as long as I have known her. I would hate to lose her friendship. I'll ask my therapist when I see him next, for advice. Thanks for these insights, luvyrself.

Hi again luvyrself -- further thoughts about this suggestion you wrote: " No offense, but Amanda may be milking this to get your sympathy." Well, she and I both have major problems with anger. Hers is the situation I described, that keeps on happening over and over under different, but similar circumstances. Mine is about electronics, for the most part -- and rudeness. And incompetence. I know that the customer service people onlne and on the phone are not themselves incompetent. It's the people "at the top," the ones who set policy, routine, lack of adequate training, and are getting richer and paying their helping people less and less, who are at fault. It is they who are incompetent. Their resulting situations are that their phone systems are "rude." It's rude to people to have "systems" where help is 90%-100% non existent. Rudeness is a trigger for me, no matter what or who is its source. So when I have a problem, I call Amanda. When she has a problem, she calls me. We do not call each other a whole lot with problems. We talk about good stuff, too, and have good times. We are both trying to find meds and therapy advice that help. So far, no success with that for either of us.

Can you and Amanda move in together? I'm sorry this is happening....it sounds like you me a real mess.

Originally Posted by ElsaMars

Can you and Amanda move in together? I'm sorry this is happening....it sounds like you me a real mess.

Gee, ElsaMars. Thanks for your compassion and sympathy for both Amanda and me. First, I have a question -- I think there's a typo here somewhere: "it sounds like you me a real mess." Not sure what you're trying to say here? As for the two of us moving in together, there are several reasons that can't happen, but the real, real, real reason is I can't live with ANYONE. I don't get along with people I try to live with. One of the BIG reasons my b/f and I get along so well (other than that he's just one SUPER guy!) is that we do not live together!

I meant "it sounds like it's a real mess" I'm sorry for my lack of clarity....I've been struggling with my reading and writing lately. I understand about not being able to live with others. I wish I had advise. Good luck to you all.