Recently I learned that the oft-used description "fight or flight" means that one is in "survival mode." One's actual survival is being threatened. All the blood rushes to the torso, and leaves the brain, so one's ability to reason is impaired. One must lash out physically or run away fast.

This was a revelation to me. I've been really in this mode A LOT for the last four months and more. Things electronic and telephonic set me off, big time. So, I have been asking myself, why does my body react as if it's a life or death situation, when it is nothing of the kind? I've been thinking about my upbringing, and also to lesser extent to my marriages. I was constantly on high alert. My dad would fly into rages; I was expected in school to be a top student, and the high school I went to had some very unreasonable teachers that I was terrified of; in other words, I was "walking on egg shells," and anything could result in physical or emotional severity against me. It's no wonder I'm still on edge all the time!!!!!!!! We are told that the world is safe for us.....ha. Definitely not! But still, these extreme "over-reactions" are just that OVER the top, inability to think things through or find alternatives to fight or flight.

Now I am trying to find ways to prevent the huge outbursts of anger and rage. Anyone got any suggestions, when something triggers you into this state?

[all74]

EMDR. Fantastic therapy for PTSD. When you experience trauma your brain becomes more alert to potential threats b/c it wants to avoid being traumatized again. EMDR helps deactivate this. It helped a lot with my PTSD.

Hi all74. How do I locate an EMDR therapist? How much does it cost????

[UpDownAround]

Originally Posted by flowerbells

Recently I learned that the oft-used description "fight or flight" means that one is in "survival mode." One's actual survival is being threatened. All the blood rushes to the torso, and leaves the brain, so one's ability to reason is impaired. One must lash out physically or run away fast.

I have never heard that. I am aware of flushing (click) which I have experienced. The redness is highly visible on the face, particularly my forehead and ears. The way the body "sends" more blood to an area is by dilating vessels. Fight or flight response sends blood faster everywhere, increasing heart rate and dilating vessels. The link does have some tips on reducing the occurrence.

[Sunflower123]

Good luck locating an EMDR therapist. I hope it helps. Best wishes.

Originally Posted by Jennifer 1967

Good luck locating an EMDR therapist. I hope it helps. Best wishes.

Thanks, Jennifer. I tend to be "suspicious" of claims about EMDR. It has always sounded WAY too good to be true.

Gosh,flushing would be embarrassing to have. I haven't had that. I took their anxiety test, though, and it said, "moderate anxiety." It claims I almost never worry about stuff, and am a calm person. Duh -- that's ridiculous!!! I am the opposite!

There is a round (song type -- the kind that goes round and and around like "row, row, row your boat" does) called "Up and Down This World Goes Round, Down." It's a two or three part round, and we sang it at a coffee house concert and led everyone there in the song. It's really a funny song because the final ending of tune ends on the word "Goes....!" and it's not the tone note! For example, if it's in the Key of C, then C is the tone note, and "Goes" is on "B". The tone note, C, is on "Up!" So some poor stooge always blows it, and sings the tone C "Up" all alone at the end. It's a riot. Always gets a huge laugh!!!! Some rounds are called "catches," and I would say this one is. The "catch" is just that -- namely that you have to "catch on" to the trick at the end. I can't find it online or I'd link you to it.

Originally Posted by UpDownAround

I have never heard that. I am aware of flushing (click) which I have experienced. The redness is highly visible on the face, particularly my forehead and ears. The way the body "sends" more blood to an area is by dilating vessels. Fight or flight response sends blood faster everywhere, increasing heart rate and dilating vessels. The link does have some tips on reducing the occurrence.

[UpDownAround]

It may be semantics, but if you don't get flushing I would say it isn't really fight or flight; it's anxiety that isn't as intense. After FoF, I am shaking no matter which I did. I usually chose flight. I have only had it a few times in my life when there was a threat of physical violence. The hardest one was choosing option 3 - freeze - when I had a gun in my face.

[all74]

www emdria. org/ page/ FaTmain

Sorry, I'm new and can't post full links yet.

It's not "too good to be true"... and it can be hard work, in that you are confronting some dark stuff. I have done it myself around sexual abuse I suffered as a child. It was hard but I'm not having flashbacks anymore and I'm much less triggered now. I also provide EMDR myself and I am always amazed at how well it works for my patients.

[all74]

Originally Posted by UpDownAround

It may be semantics, but if you don't get flushing I would say it isn't really fight or flight; it's anxiety that isn't as intense. After FoF, I am shaking no matter which I did. I usually chose flight. I have only had it a few times in my life when there was a threat of physical violence. The hardest one was choosing option 3 - freeze - when I had a gun in my face.

Sorry but I disagree. Lots of my patients go into a fight or flight response without flushing. You can also get pallor.

And you're right - the response isn't just "fight or flight." It's more correct to think of it as "fight, flight, or freeze." Fight or flight is a limbic system response and freeze (think "playing dead" in some animals) is a vagus response. Freeze tends to be the most traumatic, as the brain is essentially saying "I'm as good as dead, the only hope I have is to play dead and hope I don't get eaten."

[UpDownAround]

It was hard to freeze; logic doesn't have the loudest voice. I still don't see how pallor would occur if the body is pumped full of adrenaline.

[all74]

Adrenaline and noradrenaline can cause vasoconstriction.

Originally Posted by all74

www emdria. org/ page/ FaTmain

Sorry, I'm new and can't post full links yet.

It's not "too good to be true"... and it can be hard work, in that you are confronting some dark stuff. I have done it myself around sexual abuse I suffered as a child. It was hard but I'm not having flashbacks anymore and I'm much less triggered now. I also provide EMDR myself and I am always amazed at how well it works for my patients.

Thank you -- glad it works for you! That's super. I'd heard it was quick and easy -- and that sounded too good to be true.

I'm used to hard work on issues. What works for me is intensive Art Therapy with a fully qualified Art Therapist. This does not mean any ol' artist that calls themself an art therapist. An Art Therapist has a degree in Art Therapy, and in addition Master's degreed qualifications and licensed psychotherapist. I've worked with two great Art Therapists, and recovered pretty much from PTSD. But now I wonder if the PTSD is coming back. Not exactly "coming back," just that maybe I still experience it now that there are so many new triggers firing at me -- like a shotgun firing rains of pellets instead of one bullet at a time. I will probably start Art Therapy again. The kind I had before was paid for by my medical insurance, but now I will have to pay out of pocket because I can't find this sort of art therapy anymore in public health clinics around here.

[UpDownAround]

Originally Posted by all74

Adrenaline and noradrenaline can cause vasoconstriction.

I love to debate, and I might be a little hypo right now, so please don't take this as a personal attack. But since I am feeling really smart...

Norepinephrine (aka noradrenaline) can cause constriction but it is only significant in the skin, digestive tract and kidneys. That explains the pallor but not the initial statement (which wasn't yours) about blood going to the torso instead of the brain. I think that is a myth.
I cannot find any reference to epinephrine (adrenaline) causing constriction.

about blood going to the torso instead of the brain. I think that is a myth.

Hi again. Well, I have to assume that the therapist who told me this knows what she's talking about. I doubt if she'd throw out a myth. But, I do recognize that scientific research is not "fact," that there are all sorts of limitations and problems with it etc etc. Still, this statement really makes sense to me. I was hoping that knowing this would help me calm down.

[UpDownAround]

Therapist - so not a medical doctor? Some therapists use crystals and/or your aura or whatever. You don't have to believe in science, but evidence based conclusions, even when they are not absolute, are far more likely to be right than guesses. This is not black holes and nebulous particles that they theorize about; this is measurable physical reactions. But to each his own. I will cleave to science.

Originally Posted by UpDownAround

Therapist - so not a medical doctor? Some therapists use crystals and/or your aura or whatever. You don't have to believe in science, but evidence based conclusions, even when they are not absolute, are far more likely to be right than guesses. This is not black holes and nebulous particles that they theorize about; this is measurable physical reactions. But to each his own. I will cleave to science.

Thanks for more input. I totally agree with your analysis of some idiocies: "Some therapists use crystals and/or your aura or whatever." I get real, real, real tired of people like that. This therp -- the one who told me that about the torso -- was at a medical clinic. But meanwhile, I guess you and I are at a stalemate -- we can "table" our discussion until/untif one of us or someone else finds evidence to back the therapist's statement -- or not. If I ever get a chance, I will do some research on my own about it, but it really is not real important anyway, as far as I can see it.

[UpDownAround]

No, it isn't important but I am super smart today and need to be right...

one of those days where I need to tone it down a bit; sorry...

Originally Posted by UpDownAround

No, it isn't important but I am super smart today and need to be right...

one of those days where I need to tone it down a bit; sorry...

Oh, you are too, TOOooooo, sweet! Oh, and yeah, I get it about being super smart. I was super smart on Sunday. Then yesterday, the demon got me again. I mean it -- it feels like I am demon possessed. I have never been this way before. My condition is much worse than it's ever been in my life. It's been bad all my life, but not this way. Today it'll be hot weather -- how I hate that. I can really relate to urban masses who riot in weather like this.

[bioChE]

A therapist at a medical clinic still doesn't make them an MD. I'll chalk another tally up for voting for scientific evidence-based facts.

[bioChE]

The sympathetic nervous system is what gets the body ready to react, and is primarily activated by a release of norepinephrine. This handles the physiological changes. After that the parasympathetic nervous system is activated to handle the aftereffects.

Seriously, there's a great write-up on Wikipedia that handles everything from the physical to the cognitive effects. No research needed, it's all been done for you.

Amazing what a 5-second google search can give you.