[pirilin]

This is not about meds, but about MY meds.
If you feel unstable at the time, please, stop reading for your own good.

My wife was out of town. She went for four days to Disney's with her one year old first grandaughter, I of course, stayed behind.
Who wants to hear kids crying at my age. Well, I never could stand 'em at any age.

Anyway, while she was OFT, I didn't take my meds.
Let me emphysize that I don't suggest, insinuate or condone this behavior.
If you need them, You need them.

I was feeling great. Went to town at night to my beloved Gentlemen Clubs, and my mind was sharper that a razor.

I tried to publish a picture from Candy Crush, where I won the contest by a mile. 3700 something points. The second place winner made less than 2000.
And I stopped playing five hours before the contest ended.

I uploaded the picture here. I know it's here. But I can't find it. Maybe one of you guys can.

Well, my point is: are, in MY particular case, the meds helping or hurting?.
I was forced to take them by the witch last night.
BTW, I call her the witch, because she is one, and she knows it. Not because she's ugly, on the contrary, she's very pretty.

Today, I couldn't finish a level in 7 tries.
The other day, I passed 21 levels straight in the first try.
I'm also back to having troubles with the spelling.

Are they helping at all?. Or hurting me.

[Tucson]

Let me give this a try. Do you have a history of depression? Why are you on your meds in the first place? There must be a reason. Is this the first time you have doubted your diagnosis? In the past was your depression without meds getting in the way of you functioning day to day? Have the meds worked for you in the past? What happened in the past when you attempted to get off your meds?

This is all that I can think of. I suppose clinical depression can come and go for some.

[*Laurie*]

Well, pirilin, I am struggling mightily with the same question in my own life at this time. During my most recent pdoc appointment I was very honest with her and told her about my profound concerns. What has been decided is that I am stopping a couple of meds and dropping the dosage of another one. The perspective I have now is that some people are just plain over-medicated. I firmly believe that I have been one of those people.

My guess, and this is only a guess, is that it does benefit you to be on some meds at a reasonable dose. The Zen of it is figuring out what "some" and "reasonable" means for you.

[pirilin]

Originally Posted by Tucson

Let me give this a try. Do you have a history of depression? Why are you on your meds in the first place? There must be a reason. Is this the first time you have doubted your diagnosis? In the past was your depression without meds getting in the way of you functioning day to day? Have the meds worked for you in the past? What happened in the past when you attempted to get off your meds?

This is all that I can think of. I suppose clinical depression can come and go for some.

In all honesty, I was doing a bad thing. My behavior had changed.
My wife, who, BTW, is a Dr in nursing, but specialized in heart failure, knows nothing about phych illnesses. Sent me to the shrink.
She set an appointment for me at her hospital. I'm sixty years old at the time.

I thought we were going to have a conversation. Like an analyst on TV.
I've never being to one.
But all I got was questions. In twenty minutes flat, I had bipolar one.

It's not all his fault. I denied doing what I was doing.
Admitting it, would have had enormous repercutions in everything in my life.
So I said no. It's also my fault.
I took the pills everyday. Until this last week.

My self diagnosis points to clinical depression or MDD. I have been manic too, yes, but artificially enhanced. Never expontaneously.

Depression has been with me since I was thriteen years old.
Due to a drastic change in my life.

My actual doctor took the other doctor's diagnosis and ran away with it.
Only she told I didn't have bipolar 1. She knows about the enhancement.
Then told me that nothing you do under any influence, counts for a bipolar diagnostic.
We are going to have a heart to heart next appointment.

Thank you for your observation. Cheers.

[pirilin]

Originally Posted by *Laurie*

Well, pirilin, I am struggling mightily with the same question in my own life at this time. During my most recent pdoc appointment I was very honest with her and told her about my profound concerns. What has been decided is that I am stopping a couple of meds and dropping the dosage of another one. The perspective I have now is that some people are just plain over-medicated. I firmly believe that I have been one of those people.

My guess, and this is only a guess, is that it does benefit you to be on some meds at a reasonable dose. The Zen of it is figuring out what "some" and "reasonable" means for you.

Thank you Laurie. Very well put. I have to think deep about this, because I was this different person. More like my own me without meds. And now I feel bad again. Cheers.

[emgreen]

I'm extremely unfocused these days; my concentration is for shite (big time). In your original post you wrote of your beloved Gentleman Clubs & something about Candy Crush. Was Candy Crush the name of one of the performers?

Seriously, though, there are many times I feel I was misdiagnosed with bipolar...but then my symptoms reappear without me realizing it. I only know I'm not right when I come back to earth. Are the meds helping or hurting? I guess they might help, but I never get really out of control, so I understand the primary point you're making. If I ever found myself in the back of a police car, deeply in debt, or have other extremely serious symptoms I'd most definitely know I have a need for meds. That's not the case, however. Memory fragments & the input of friends raises the ghosts of my episodes - I'm not public enemy #1, though...

In addition to other symptoms that don't really hurt anyone to a great extent, my concentration is truely shot right now; I'm sorry if I missed your point altogether & wrote irrelevant garbage. I guess maybe I need meds...Take care, pirilin.

[Blueberrybook]

I didn't read the other replies as I'm pressed for time.

The meds help keep me stable. I think Adderall has finally given me some energy & sex drive.

But, I am not at all creative on meds. I get tired, and it would be lovely if I could nap every afternoon on them. I used to draw portraits of faces in pencil or charcoal. I came across some old ones last week, and they were really good. I can't draw anymore, no matter how hard I try. I used to write stories, and my creativity is zilch.

I, too, sometimes get the bright idea to go off all or some of my meds (not recommended). I usually can't stay off long enough without someone (i.e., my husband usually, but sometimes one of my sisters noticing). It tends to make me very moody and sometimes depressed though more creative. I wish I could totally detox, but I['m on such as cocktail, I don't know where I'd start. If I could afford acupuncture I'd do it to help. I used it detoxing before pregnancy. it helped my mood, my fibromyalgia, my anxiety, but you have to be able to afford it and keep up with it, which is the hard part.

Plus, the meds are keeping me stable; not manic, not depressed, dealing with much fewer panic attacks, though with a flat affect at times (those are usually the times I decide it's a great idea to stop some or all meds). But it never helps me. I get horrible insomnia. For some reason, even when I'm manic or hypomanic, I hate the insomnia. Maybe it reminds me of all the nights I couldn't sleep growing up, I don't know.

[pirilin]

Originally Posted by emgreen

I'm extremely unfocused these days; my concentration is for shite (big time). In your original post you wrote of your beloved Gentleman Clubs & something about Candy Crush. Was Candy Crush the name of one of the performers?

Seriously, though, there are many times I feel I was misdiagnosed with bipolar...but then my symptoms reappear without me realizing it. I only know I'm not right when I come back to earth. Are the meds helping or hurting? I guess they might help, but I never get really out of control, so I understand the primary point you're making. If I ever found myself in the back of a police car, deeply in debt, or have other extremely serious symptoms I'd most definitely know I have a need for meds. That's not the case, however. Memory fragments & the input of friends raises the ghosts of my episodes - I'm not public enemy #1, though...

In addition to other symptoms that don't really hurt anyone to a great extent, my concentration is truely shot right now; I'm sorry if I missed your point altogether & wrote irrelevant garbage. I guess maybe I need meds...Take care, pirilin.

Hi mgreen, long time no chat.
Candy Crush is a game.
My friends are call themselves Ursa, Nicholly, Suzy, Elvira, Chokolate with K, Imar, Delvia, etc. Those are close encounters that I remember.
I get blue light specials when the night is slow, hehe.

You are right on target. I suffered many years, and all I got was another med added.
Until this new shrinkette. I was heavily medicated at the beggining. Guinea Pig treatment. I reveled because we were going backwards.

Now I reduced the meds to three. I've up to seven meds.
50mg of Lamotrigine. I've been up to 300. Since today, it's a goner. I think that med is the one that interferes with my memory, my concentration and my difficulty spelling. I also blame it to causeing(sp) my car accident.
.75mg Klonopin. Was taking 2mg at one point.
And 10mg of Paxil. My true savior. I took 30mg at one time. Too much med.

I may need the Paxil for life. I suffer from depression big time.
The Klonopin helps sleep sometimes. I take it on and off.
Valeriana also helps me sleep, but I have hyperosmia and can't take the smell.
The best remedy for me is swimming 3 or 4 hours a day.In intervals. I conk(sp) out fast.
I want for her to eliminate the lamotrigine officially. She's afraid of hypomania. I was born with it. And I like it!.

Cheers.

[SparkySmart]

Originally Posted by *Laurie*

The perspective I have now is that some people are just plain over-medicated. I firmly believe that I have been one of those people. My guess, and this is only a guess, is that it does benefit you to be on some meds at a reasonable dose. The Zen of it is figuring out what "some" and "reasonable" means for you.

I really hope this goes well for you, Laurie. I came to the same realization for myself, too. My doctor says I'm walking a tightrope without a net, but that's okay. The last six months have been challenging. I could feel a distant rumble when I was afraid things would topple, but I just don't feed into it. When I felt myself on a rapid upswing in mood, I would sit quietly and tell myself to STOP IT (a la Bob Newhart, LOL -- you can Google that if you're not familiar with this 1980s sitcom). I don't have the resources to indulge in behavior that could potentially lead to mania. I'm not funny or entertaining or charming in this frame of mind; I can't write interesting stories or...well, do anything useful. I know the signs pretty well by now.

I actually don't doubt my diagnosis of bipolar. If I practice some self control early on, I've learned that I have quite a few tools at my disposal; if I wait, I won't have that option. For instance, feeling an upswing and going to a noisy bar and flirting with strangers would be exactly the WRONG thing to do. I've also had some depressive episodes looming but did some effective self-intervention. Some people are certain that they can't survive without meds, and I applaud them for being compliant and responsible. If my meds had made me so functional that nobody knew I had a diagnosis, they would have been worth it...but they didn't.

[Tucson]

On a new med, my concentration is shot. When my washer was done, as I transferred the clothing to the dryer, I pulled out of the washer 15 plastic bags. I do not know how they got there. I have been having problems spelling simple words. I have to look many up. I used to be able to write a report without any spelling mistakes at all. Is this due to the meds, or is it due to something else, like my BP?

For me lately, I have been wondering if the side-effects are worse than the disease. I do believe this is true with some medications. Perhaps I am overmedicated? Every now and then, I feel like detoxing by going imto a psych hospital. That is where med changes can be made quickly. But this will probably will cost me thousands.

[~Christina]

A short time not taking meds isn’t really being off your meds as each med has a half-life.

Anytime we start a med our brain learns to function with it and that takes time.... it also takes time for your brain to learn to function without the medication. I quit lithium years ago it literally took weeks and weeks to get back to pre medicated off that shyt.

Maybe you mood lifted because you got a break and did stuff you enjoy without having to explain “ why” you did xyz

Just stuff to think about.

[pirilin]

Originally Posted by ~Christina

A short time not taking meds isn’t really being off your meds as each med has a half-life.

Anytime we start a med our brain learns to function with it and that takes time.... it also takes time for your brain to learn to function without the medication. I quit lithium years ago it literally took weeks and weeks to get back to pre medicated off that shyt.

Maybe you mood lifted because you got a break and did stuff you enjoy without having to explain “ why” you did xyz

Just stuff to think about.

Hello Cristina, my Gibraltar rock.

Are you ever wrong?. I wonder sometimes, hehe.
I forgot all about the half-life.
Since I won't take the lamotrigine anymore, I will post if something really changhed(sp) in the long term.
Thank you for never abandoning me. I know I don't have a exclusive, you do it for everyone, but I want you to know that you are probably the person I listen to the most in the site. Thank you.

[Movingon69]

I'm going to take an approach but remember I'm new to this. You didn't talk about how you were doing before your wife left and were taking your medicine.

But, to me it sounds you went a bit at least hypomanic once you went off your meds

I do agree with everyone here. Talk honestly to your pdoc

[SparkySmart]

You can find an argument on the internet to support any point of view, but I was interested to stumble across these statements written by a psych attending:

"Keeping people on antipsychotics forever is a peculiar Americanism and is much less common in many parts of the world. ...we learn how to start people on antipsychotics, but not really how to get them off... In general, I have seen people go slowly on this... without anything bad happening."

"[Antipsychotics] are not benign, quite apart from causing brain rot, metabolic syndrome, tardive syndromes, osteoporosis. In the face of drugs, life events, etc., a relapse is just as likely on or off meds." (emphasis mine)

"Heck, I don't have a chronic serious mental illness, and if you gave me 20 of Haldol and 30 of Zyprexa for 5 years, I think my receptors would be a little off naturally and take a while to reacclimate if I stopped taking it...does that mean the Haldol and Zyprexa are good drugs for me?"

There are also plenty of studies to show that life-long prophylaxis is absolutely necessary in order to avoid relapse and hospitalizations. The point is that there are opposing views, and research isn't definitive; however, how many people take their meds faithfully and still end up in the hospital time and time again? How many people who take their meds faithfully are able to return to their former profession successfully? What about those who take their meds faithfully and are declared permanently disabled? Very frustrating.

Regardless of how I weigh in on this debate, IMO there's no excuse for messing with one's meds without medical supervision.

[pirilin]

Originally Posted by Movingon69

I'm going to take an approach but remember I'm new to this. You didn't talk about how you were doing before your wife left and were taking your medicine.

But, to me it sounds you went a bit at least hypomanic once you went off your meds

I do agree with everyone here. Talk honestly to your pdoc

I was doing fine. My normal kyper self.
Only the mind was clouded with the same syntoms(sp) it has been for years.
No spark, no clarity, in the same fog and slow reactions. Spelling, I don't even try to find the words anymore. I\m back to that.

[pirilin]

Originally Posted by SparkySmart

You can find an argument on the internet to support any point of view, but I was interested to stumble across these statements written by a psych attending:

"Keeping people on antipsychotics forever is a peculiar Americanism and is much less common in many parts of the world. ...we learn how to start people on antipsychotics, but not really how to get them off... In general, I have seen people go slowly on this... without anything bad happening."

"[Antipsychotics] are not benign, quite apart from causing brain rot, metabolic syndrome, tardive syndromes, osteoporosis. In the face of drugs, life events, etc., a relapse is just as likely on or off meds." (emphasis mine)

"Heck, I don't have a chronic serious mental illness, and if you gave me 20 of Haldol and 30 of Zyprexa for 5 years, I think my receptors would be a little off naturally and take a while to reacclimate if I stopped taking it...does that mean the Haldol and Zyprexa are good drugs for me?"

There are also plenty of studies to show that life-long prophylaxis is absolutely necessary in order to avoid relapse and hospitalizations. The point is that there are opposing views, and research isn't definitive; however, how many people take their meds faithfully and still end up in the hospital time and time again? How many people who take their meds faithfully are able to return to their former profession successfully? What about those who take their meds faithfully and are declared permanently disabled? Very frustrating.

Regardless of how I weigh in on this debate, IMO there's no excuse for messing with one's meds without medical supervision.

You are lucky to trust doctors.
My wife, before she was a doctor, was the queen of dignistics)sp). The doctors asked her constantly, and followed what she said to the T.
I, on the other hand, know doctors kill 120,000 pacients a year with wrong diacnostics(sp).i.e. wrongful death.

I don't even trust my wife in this. She was the one who sent me to the shrink in the first place. And my life has been hell ever since.

I am misdiagnosticaded(sp). I suffer from very deep depressions. Not bipolar.
And they became deeper after taking the meds.

[~Christina]

Originally Posted by pirilin

Hello Cristina, my Gibraltar rock.


Are you ever wrong?. I wonder sometimes, hehe.

I forgot all about the half-life.

Since I won't take the lamotrigine anymore, I will post if something really changhed(sp) in the long term.

Thank you for never abandoning me. I know I don't have a exclusive, you do it for everyone, but I want you to know that you are probably the person I listen to the most in the site. Thank you.

Aww thank you hun.. I’m just glad I can help even a little bit.

[SparkySmart]

Originally Posted by pirilin

You are lucky to trust doctors.

LOL Well, the fact is that I don't trust doctors really. I truly believe that they want to help. I know myself better than they can possibly know me, though, and I refuse to believe I'm defective.

[Castillo]

I’m a recovering lawyer turned artist. Bipolar killed my career in law, but I’d rather be an artist anyway. I’m not making much money though. But that’s beside the point. In my experience I fall apart without meds, unable to focus, create or analyze anything. It is no real existence except when hypomanic in a fun way. But lately my manias are dysphoric and very uncomfortable.

The thing about being hypomanic in a fun way is that it can betray you into thinking you are Superman, or in my case, superwoman. It is a lie. The stuff I do either as an artist or lawyer when hypomanic/manic always needs redoing.

Maybe you aren’t as sharp as you are when hypomanic, cognitive struggles come from both meds and the illness in general. And with every episode of mania, you do actual brain damage. It accumulates over time. Bottom line, find a med that is better for you and take it. Or you will be cognitively impaired in the long run.

[~Christina]

Originally Posted by SparkySmart

LOL Well, the fact is that I don't trust doctors really. I truly believe that they want to help. I know myself better than they can possibly know me, though, and I refuse to believe I'm defective.

You are not defective at all !!!

[*Laurie*]

Originally Posted by Castillo

I’m a recovering lawyer turned artist. Bipolar killed my career in law, but I’d rather be an artist anyway. I’m not making much money though. But that’s beside the point. In my experience I fall apart without meds, unable to focus, create or analyze anything. It is no real existence except when hypomanic in a fun way. But lately my manias are dysphoric and very uncomfortable.


Can you describe what you mean by "dysphoric"?


The thing about being hypomanic in a fun way is that it can betray you into thinking you are Superman, or in my case, superwoman. It is a lie. The stuff I do either as an artist or lawyer when hypomanic/manic always needs redoing.

Maybe you aren’t as sharp as you are when hypomanic, cognitive struggles come from both meds and the illness in general. And with every episode of mania, you do actual brain damage.


I'm really curious about your statement about brain damage from mania. Do you have any more information on that?

It accumulates over time. Bottom line, find a med that is better for you and take it. Or you will be cognitively impaired in the long run.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[Tucson]

Here is my opinion. I have run across more than one pdoc where I new more about the meds they prescribed for Bipolar than they did. This is saying more about them than myself. IMO there are many pdocs that do not know their meds as well as they should. It is all trial and error every step of the way with them. Then when a med cocktail needs changing, it once again becomes trial and error. I find that this may lead to combos that are contraindicated for Bipolar. My previous pdoc, once he found some of the combos that worked for me, which was not that difficult for him to do, was more likely to be able to rapidly come to a final combo that I needed at the time to function. This did not happen all of the time. Also, one of the biggest problems with reliable results is patient noncompliance. This appears to happen *quite* frequently with BPers. How can you say your meds are not working when you are not taking them as prescribed?

So I think there are other factors involved than just the meds themselves. I do think many of us are overmedicated. I do like what I hear pdocs in other parts of the world do. They only keep their patient on a med only as long as needed. Then they take their patient off of it. If this is true, there are many pdocs here in the States that can learn from this example.

What do all of you think?

[pirilin]

Originally Posted by Castillo

I’m a recovering lawyer turned artist. Bipolar killed my career in law, but I’d rather be an artist anyway. I’m not making much money though. But that’s beside the point. In my experience I fall apart without meds, unable to focus, create or analyze anything. It is no real existence except when hypomanic in a fun way. But lately my manias are dysphoric and very uncomfortable.

The thing about being hypomanic in a fun way is that it can betray you into thinking you are Superman, or in my case, superwoman. It is a lie. The stuff I do either as an artist or lawyer when hypomanic/manic always needs redoing.

Maybe you aren’t as sharp as you are when hypomanic, cognitive struggles come from both meds and the illness in general. And with every episode of mania, you do actual brain damage. It accumulates over time. Bottom line, find a med that is better for you and take it. Or you will be cognitively impaired in the long run.

Sorry buddy-buddyette. there's only one Superman.