[*Beth*]

I have friends, also my husband, who use me as their therapist. They want to dump their problems on me. None of these people ever ask how I'm doing. I don't disclose or ask for anyone to listen to me because I don't want to. I have my therapist, my pdoc, and this forum for that.

When I was younger I allowed myself to be an unconditionally reliable friend. I was "there" for everyone in my life, there to listen, caretake, I was "mommy" for anyone who needed one.

Over the past 2 years I have learned that my caretaking behavior is unhealthy for me. I no longer want to be in one-sided relationship, me always being the giver. I don't want to disengage when these people have already started dumping on me; I want to prevent it.

The friends I have in mind, including my husband, seriously need professional mental health care, but won't get it. They're lazy to "do the work." I struggle to keep my sanity and I work hard at doing so.

Anyone? Suggestions for tools to use to send out the message that I am not available as a free therapist or an unconditionally loving mommy?

[Crazy Hitch]

Boundaries.
Boundaries.
Boundaries.

It’s something I struggle with too.

I hate the saying you can’t help those who can’t help themselves but sometimes in some instances it is true.

[*Beth*]

Thank you, CH.

Sometimes it is true. Many times it is. My husband has severe OCD (which is why we no longer live together; he hoards...no room for me in his house). He flatly refuses meds, and encourages me to stop taking them. No support there so I don't even try.

The two friends...one is so depressed. She's a good soul, but calls me drunk and crying. I fairly beg her to see her doctor and ask for an AD. I suspect she wants to hide her drinking, so won't see her doc.

The next friend has severe mental illness. On and off meds. On meds, she's tolerable. Off meds, forget it. Negative, cloying, I don't want it.

I have complete respect and tolerance for someone who is in treatment. I'm very happy to be there for her/him. It's the needy people who refuse treatment that I have no energy in my life for.

Boundaries, yes. And I guess I have to shore myself up and say something like, "I'm so sorry you're feeling down right now, but I have an appointment I have to get to. Remember to breathe and maybe take a walk." It's reeeally hard for me, but I think it's the only way to extricate myself.

[Soupe du jour]

Hi BethRags. One idea, which I realize is not everyone's cup of tea, would be to sit in on an open Al-Anon group meeting, or two. Yes, I know that you did not specifically label everyone you reference as an alcoholic or addict, but it sounds like some of the behaviors are quite similar. Perhaps the one friend that calls "drunk" does specifically fit the category? Believe me when I say that many people attend 12-Step programs, like AA or Al-Anon, even when substance addiction is not specifically an issue. Though such "silent/quiet visitors" don't usually talk about non-alcohol/substance issues there, they can still sometimes learn something. In AA, they say "Take what you want, and leave the rest." Common issues discussed in Al-Anon are enabling, being taken advantage of or overwhelmed by others' problems, dealing with someone who won't seek proper help/treatment, and most importantly... as a friend/family member of an addict or ill person, learning to be empowered to take care of yourself first and say "no", which is difficult to do, at times. I suppose most Al-Anon meetings are online, during the pandemic. That may be good for many people who otherwise wouldn't want to (or be able to) go in-person.

As an aside, my last remaining paternal uncle's wife is a hoarder. Like your arrangement with your husband, my uncle has his own digs. He is a horse saddle craftsman, so built an apartment over his craft shop. He lives there and not with his wife, though his digs are nearby her living place. It seems to work out fine for them. They are otherwise happily married, I think. They've been together for at least 40 years.

[*Beth*]

Originally Posted by Soupe du jour

Hi BethRags. One idea, which I realize is not everyone's cup of tea, would be to sit in on an open Al-Anon group meeting, or two. Yes, I know that you did not specifically label everyone you reference as an alcoholic or addict, but it sounds like some of the behaviors are quite similar. Perhaps the one friend that calls "drunk" does specifically fit the category? Believe me when I say that many people attend 12-Step programs, like AA or Al-Anon, even when substance addiction is not specifically an issue. Though such "silent/quiet visitors" don't usually talk about non-alcohol/substance issues there, they can still sometimes learn something. In AA, they say "Take what you want, and leave the rest." Common issues discussed in Al-Anon are enabling, being taken advantage of or overwhelmed by others' problems, dealing with someone who won't seek proper help/treatment, and most importantly... as a friend/family member of an addict or ill person, learning to be empowered to take care of yourself first and say "no", which is difficult to do, at times. I suppose most Al-Anon meetings are online, during the pandemic. That may be good for many people who otherwise wouldn't want to (or be able to) go in-person.

As an aside, my last remaining paternal uncle's wife is a hoarder. Like your arrangement with your husband, my uncle has his own digs. He is a horse saddle craftsman, so built an apartment over his craft shop. He lives there and not with his wife, though his digs are nearby her living place. It seems to work out fine for them. They are otherwise happily married, I think. They've been together for at least 40 years.

I love your idea! Never even occurred to me to view the situation as me being an enabler or codependent.

[Fuzzybear]

Originally Posted by BethRags

Thank you, CH.

Sometimes it is true. Many times it is. My husband has severe OCD (which is why we no longer live together; he hoards...no room for me in his house). He flatly refuses meds, and encourages me to stop taking them. No support there so I don't even try.

The two friends...one is so depressed. She's a good soul, but calls me drunk and crying. I fairly beg her to see her doctor and ask for an AD. I suspect she wants to hide her drinking, so won't see her doc.

The next friend has severe mental illness. On and off meds. On meds, she's tolerable. Off meds, forget it. Negative, cloying, I don't want it.

I have complete respect and tolerance for someone who is in treatment. I'm very happy to be there for her/him. It's the needy people who refuse treatment that I have no energy in my life for.

Boundaries, yes. And I guess I have to shore myself up and say something like, "I'm so sorry you're feeling down right now, but I have an appointment I have to get to. Remember to breathe and maybe take a walk." It's reeeally hard for me, but I think it's the only way to extricate myself.

Hey BethRags,
I used to have a ''friend'' who sounds somewhat like the second friend you describe. She was on and off meds, (rinse and repeat), had a severe mental illness, would not stick to therapy although it was offered, and I finally realised that she was ''on transmit only''.... I spent hours (for years) listening to her and giving support, comfort and thought out advice. I did not tell her how I was ''getting on''.. Eventually, after years, she stopped phoning me. Maybe she found another friend to dump on?

Sometimes the needy people come in other disguises, like the person who always has to be ''right'' and judging others, passive aggressive, feels superior yet is deeply insecure, violating known (and obvious) boundaries repeatedly, sneaky and requiring endless significance (endless attention) This is similar to my Paternal Unit also Sometimes I am tempted to show that person my teeth (not anyone here)

I wonder why we both have these people in our lives (or have had them)

Boundaries. I'm working on these too.

[*Beth*]

Originally Posted by Fuzzybear

Hey BethRags,
I used to have a ''friend'' who sounds somewhat like the second friend you describe. She was on and off meds, (rinse and repeat), had a severe mental illness, would not stick to therapy although it was offered, and I finally realised that she was ''on transmit only''.... I spent hours (for years) listening to her and giving support, comfort and thought out advice. I did not tell her how I was ''getting on''.. Eventually, after years, she stopped phoning me. Maybe she found another friend to dump on?

Sometimes the needy people come in other disguises, like the person who always has to be ''right'' and judging others, passive aggressive, feels superior yet is deeply insecure, violating known (and obvious) boundaries repeatedly, sneaky and requiring endless significance (endless attention) This is similar to my Paternal Unit also Sometimes I am tempted to show that person my teeth (not anyone here)

I wonder why we both have these people in our lives (or have had them)

Boundaries. I'm working on these too.

Oh, Fuzzy...you have worded your experiences so well. I also had a mother who I parented because she never matured enough to cope with adult life. My husband is very much like my mother was.

I suspect that because we are empathetic people we are easily used by bears who not only don't want to share their salmon, but want our salmon, too

[wolftrap]

I totally identify! I find I'm playing therapist to multiple people because I am a good listener. People who are needy thrive on good listeners. I've been trying to wean myself from this behavior. My initial reaction was to drop all of these kinds of friendships. My therapist gave me a good tool which seems to be working. It is a form of setting boundaries, which seems to be a theme here. Whenever someone tries to go down the "poor me, please listen" route, I change the topic of the conversation and ask them about something other in there lives that is positive. For instance "how did you get into the field you are in? You seem to love it" or "have you always been interested in what you are doing (hobby, job, marriage, etc.)?" These people like to talk so much about themselves that I am finding they aren't even aware that I changed to topic. Once they are launched on a positive conversational path, it is much easier for me to say "whoops! gotta go, I have an appointment" or some such excuse. This is a method to extricate yourself from the conversation in a positive manner.

[wolftrap]

..just to clarify, the point is to steer them towards something positive, however you think you can do that....

[wolftrap]

Sorry! I missed the most important part! They are addicted to their state of being, just as an alcoholic is. Nothing you or I can say will change this. They suck up your time and energy. Thus, getting yourself out of the conversation is the best thing you can do for yourself. After a while they get the hint that you are no longer a bottomless well of non-professional therapeutic help.

[*Beth*]

Originally Posted by wolftrap

I totally identify! I find I'm playing therapist to multiple people because I am a good listener. People who are needy thrive on good listeners. I've been trying to wean myself from this behavior. My initial reaction was to drop all of these kinds of friendships. My therapist gave me a good tool which seems to be working. It is a form of setting boundaries, which seems to be a theme here. Whenever someone tries to go down the "poor me, please listen" route, I change the topic of the conversation and ask them about something other in there lives that is positive. For instance "how did you get into the field you are in? You seem to love it" or "have you always been interested in what you are doing (hobby, job, marriage, etc.)?" These people like to talk so much about themselves that I am finding they aren't even aware that I changed to topic. Once they are launched on a positive conversational path, it is much easier for me to say "whoops! gotta go, I have an appointment" or some such excuse. This is a method to extricate yourself from the conversation in a positive manner.

Yes, I have always enjoyed being a good listener. But it can quickly go off-balance to become a situation in which I feel trapped into a corner.

Your therapist's suggestion is excellent! Thank you for sharing it! Bringing the conversation to a positive topic is better for everyone when the dialogue is headed into the realm of "Poor me, I'm always a helpless victim and you're the only person who can help me."

I'm actually looking forward to trying that out.

[*Beth*]

Originally Posted by wolftrap

Sorry! I missed the most important part! They are addicted to their state of being, just as an alcoholic is. Nothing you or I can say will change this. They suck up your time and energy. Thus, getting yourself out of the conversation is the best thing you can do for yourself. After a while they get the hint that you are no longer a bottomless well of non-professional therapeutic help.

Yes, that's what Soupe posted above. That the people I'm/you're referring to are literally addicted to their own negativity. I'm completely fine with listening to and trying to help out someone who is having a rough time, but is committed to becoming mentally healthier. That's why I love this board.

It's the "friends" who never contact me except when they need to vent and blow their problems (which are often the same issue, rinse, repeat and that issue can go on for years!)

Maybe the people I'm referring to are sometimes called "energy vampires."

This...exactly: ...no longer a bottomless well of non-professional therapeutic help.

Thank you wolftrap - and good for you, too, for learning to set healthy boundaries to take good care of yourself.