[opheliasorrow]

Today I asked my therapist some questions about labelling. Because some mental health issues have such a stigma still I really wanted to be sure of things. She doesn't like 'labelling' she said because each and every human beings have different traits in their personality. I said I felt I needed to have something as depression and other MH issues can't be 'seen'. I was diagnosed with borderline personality and ptsd and dissociative amnesia by a psychiatrist 2 years ago ...... but i was only in the room an hour with him, he really didn't know me. My T says complex PTSD would be more apt along with the others, but having said that I show signs of other things too ... I wondered if anyone else had had the same kind of discussion with their therapists and if you believe in labels? I'm not sure why she doesn't like to give a label really, I don't understand that, to me it makes my illness valid .... I'm not making myself very clear I don't think, I hope this makes some kind of sense .... Ophelia

[Lenny]

Originally Posted by opheliasorrow

I'm not making myself very clear I don't think, I hope this makes some kind of sense .... Ophelia

Your making great sense ophelia....

Oh what a question you ask. Many a great thesis has been thought upon, written and agued concerning your curiosity. Poetry too...and nothing digs deeper to Truth.

Names, labels and definitions. What a world we would be in without them. What a world we live in because of them....Things need a name but feelings, I think, need understanding and simply naming them is incomplete. Sometimes even naming them can end the journey before understanding comes. That may be what your therapist is speaking to.

I think some form of baseline in any journey of discovery whether of self or otherwise is prudent. How specific that baseline is can confine or focus the energy needed to move forward. Like having a map for a weeks worth of travel. Marking each road to be traveled might make the journey less complex, but it might also lessen the serendipity associated with the unexpected discoveries made by allowing more freedom to choose. Definitions can be like that...there is some level of ego associated with the commitment made in the definning of something.

I personally like a compromise. Having some pragmatic idea on the direction I'm heading but with an open mind to allow the unexpected, unforseen and unknown to effect me and any futher choices and decisions is the better way to proceed....IMHO.

You are the product of every experience you have ever had. Definning yourself by even the longest of sentences will not in any way totally define you. But having some definitions that corespond to aspects of what has happened and what effect those events may have had upon you can direct your energies into areas of discovery that may offer solutions. This process will undoubtedly change defintions.

As my signature relates,,I cringe from conclusions for they limit any hope of learning...

Lenny

[opheliasorrow]

Thank you so much Lenny ... that makes perfect sense to me actually - I see where you both are coming from and yes compromise definitely is the answer I think .... thank you so much for replying, and for the reference to that book in your reply to Ni33i. K xxx

[BlueOak]

It's interesting that you use the word label and not the word diagnosis. I totally get why you would want a diagnosis that clearly defines -- and validates -- your mental illness. To me, and I think to your therapist, the word "label" means a word that somebody can slap on you and then you get completely defined by that one label. For example, the word "borderline" can be a label that makes people think they know everything they need to know about somebody, which just isn't true. The phrase "complex PTSD" was actually proposed as an alternative to "Borderline Personality Disorder" by Dr. Judith Herman, an expert on PTSD and CSA (childhood sexual abuse). Since BPD is both confusing (borderline? borderline of what and what?!) and has a major stigma attached to it, I think you should embrace "Complex PTSD" as your diagnosis, your label. When people ask you what Complex PTSD is, you can explain to them that it's PTSD that also includes depressive and dissociative symptoms, and problems with relationships as well. And if you WANT to, you can explain to them that Complex PTSD is usually caused by a long period of trauma in childhood, like severe physical or sexual abuse, together with dreadfully inadequate parenting. I don't know if this was any help at all, but good luck to you, whether you find a good label or not.

BlueOak

[opheliasorrow]

Thank you so much blue oak ... well, I see where you are coming from ... I think I did ask how she'd diagnose me, in the beginning 2 years ago and it was then she said she didn't like 'labels', so I guess that's where it came from. Yes today in therapy she did mention the nurturing or lack of it by my mother .... that's when we learn how to comfort ourselves, from our parents, well my mother didn't basically. She was totally devoid of emotion really and that's why I guess we fold who suffer with complex PTSD can't be alone or 'nurture' ourselves .... thank you for the good luck, I'm well into healing in therapy though it's strange, I always thought I trusted my T from the word go which is unusual for me, but I've only just started going into things from when I was very small and I've been dreaming about my T which she says suggests I've only just started trusting her, or my 'little Kerry' has. OOh I'm not half rambling and off topic so sorry. On T days I just go off on one So much to process .. sorry Thanks again and I'll think of it as complex PTSD I can't wait to get started on my councelling course. After that I'm doing a degree in psychotherapy It just fascinates me so much Ophelia xxxx

[NoLeafClover]

My question is when are they going to change " Borderline Personality Disorder"...to Emotion Regulation Disorder? Its already been changed in Europe,and its a much better term....Borderline PD had a whole different definition years ago,back then it was meant to mean " Borderline psychotic "....

[Fuzzybear]

((((((((((((((((( ophelia )))))))))))))))))

[Rapunzel]

I understand and relate to feeling validated by a diagnosis. I relate to the BPD diagnosis too. It feels like it fits, and like it explains something important about me. On the other hand, labels or diagnoses can keep us from realizing the rest of who we are, and can keep us stuck sometimes if we relate to it too much.

Marsha Linehan recognized the need for balance between validation strategies and change strategies. Especially for people with BPD (although we're not so different from others who also have dysregulated emotions), when T refuses to give a dx, or to acknowledge where we are, or when T expects us to be something else, we can become distressed. It doesn't feel right. We don't know that we can change. We don't know who we would be if we weren't borderline. It feels threatening. (Not necessarily these same feelings for everyone, but you get the idea). At the same time, when we are called borderline or someone notices that we are stuck or that we have problems, that can be a problem too. We might even give up and become hopeless and stop trying. It's a dilemma, but with the right balance, we can be who we are and still be getting better.

[opheliasorrow]

Thank you so much Rapunzel ... you are so much better at explaining things That's exactly what my T said .. I just find on T days my brain wont relate things, but you said it perfectly, thank you and I completely agree too ....

Thank you ((((((((((((((((Fuzzysweetie)))))))))))))

Noleafclover I also think your description is probably a better title .... though whatever the title I have to agree with Rapunzel .... they can be both good and bad ...

[Fuzzybear]

[Michah]

Hi there,

Yep, seems labels, validation of dx and treatment are intertwined.....

But rarely does it lead to understanding, contentment or healing. It is the therapy over time that does that, not the dx itself.

In saying this, it is our spirit that prevails, that gets us through the really bad times, when behaviour has not changed yet through therapy. The spirit prevails initially......

Labels/dx are imperative imo......only because they guide the therapist.

It would be like being given the less stigmatised physical illness, when you are actually dealing with a stigmatised terminal illness. The treatment would not save your life for it is misguided. It would not be ethical for a doctor to dx you with a minor ailment, to save you the intense discomfort and isolation of stigma.

If you are afraid of labels, ask yourself, why? None of us want to be discriminated against and having had much stigma thrown at me, it only made me more determined.

My T does not discuss labels with me either......but a session involves much T speak......psychobabble, I call it......a spade is still a spade no matter how you look at it. After 16 years of therapy on and off for BPD, PTSD and schizoeffective, I think little of the names, but am glad that I had the opportunity initially to know what it was I was dealing with. It took 13 weeks to be dx by psychiatrist, psychologist and my trusty mental health nurses on my first inpatient stay in hospital. So, dx should take a while when dealing with multiple symptoms.

The only thing I know for sure, is that all things wax and wane in intensity, that profiles of what we are dx with change over time due to gaining of wisdom, maturity, self-esteem, life/coping skills and so on......nothing ever stays the same......it is the flexibility of spirit, the idea of unconditionally loving oneself despite darkness and the understanding and belief of our own worth.

A name is just a name.......a label is just a label......it is what you do with it that counts, babe........and I think your T is coming from that direction......she sees great insight in you to come to your own conclusions as I do when reading your posts......all paths lead back to the same journey, and you are ALWAYS on the right path......no matter......

Take good care......sounds like you got it in the bag.....

Hugs

Michah

[opheliasorrow]

Sorry hon I only just saw your reply ... thank you so much for your insightfulness I'm not afraid of labels at all, I'm one of those people who need it I think .. if not only for the sake of explaining to others! You know how people can be

I value your opinion, I bellieve you are right too. I know that I will never forget what happened to me, nor will I forgive, but I am well on the way to healing thanks to my wonderful therapist. I have to say she is probably the only person who validated what happened to me and how traumatic it was growing up .... that in itself was a huge sigh of relief to me ... after years of people not believing etc ... gosh I'm going off topic lol sorry.

Anyway, I hear what you are saying, you sound like a wonderful and positive person, thank you for reading my posts and for the hugs, right backatya hon, Ophelia xxxx

[ECHOES]

A label is so confining. We are not narrowly defined. We are not constant, but ever-changing. We are complex. What label could keep up with us?!

[opheliasorrow]

That's so true Echoes .... gosh I feel like alphabet soup invaded my brain lol ..... I can see all points of view I guess ah well ... onwards and upwards, my new motto K xx

[Briester]

Hiya. Onwards and upwards is definitely a good outlook.

We haven't "spoken" before and most of what I've seen is from your profile page but I did want to comment on one of your posts in this thread. Though I don't really know what you've gone through and I'm sure it must have been horrible. I think it may be important for someone's growth to forgive but not forget? After all is said and done and the people who injured us are gone, the forgiveness is not for them but for us. Sometimes it lifts the burden and weight of anger, resentment, hatred, despise, from our own minds because it means we've risen above what happened to us. It (and I don't like the term "empower") shows that you are a better person than the people/things that have caused you pain.

I just happened to think about it and wanted to share with you.

I hope you have a wonderful day.

[opheliasorrow]

Thank you Briester and I understand why you say what you do, however I will never forgive my abuser. Maybe I will in time and after more therapy who knows, but I feel I can move on and not let him ruin my life any more which is a huge thing for me Even if I never forgive him I know I am a better person than he is and that what happened was never any fault of my own. I have nothing but contempt for predators and I think the way I feel right now that is healthy and justified to be honest. Any person who can harm an innocent child in such an horrific way deserves no respect or forgiveness and I don't think it would make me a 'better person' in any way if I did forgive him. People just have differing opinions on this I think. I'm me and I'm good and bad. I'm not perfect nor am I a terrible person ... I just chose not to forgive the person who did me a huge wrong. Thank you for your thoughts, have a good day too -

[Briester]

You're perfectly right though in your choice Ophelia and I didn't mean to spout empty words. There is and never will be rationale for abuse of anyone, much less a child. I'm very sorry you've had to endure this and I can totally understand why you feel the way you do. Sorry if I caused you irritation.

[BrokenNBeautiful]

I like the label, "Complex PTSD" much better.

Thank you everyone for this thread.

Billi