[Scorpio Eyes]

I'm going to begin this with a rant; I need to vent to someone who can hear me, I'm sorry. If anyone has any similiar experiences, I'd love to hear them. Both because I need to see how you all behaved and just because you deserve someone to listen, too.

To put it bluntly, I'm disgusted with myself. It's six in the morning and I can't sleep. The guilt keeps me up. Grabbed my journal and wrote four pages on my last relationship. "My first love." "My greatest failure." Both of those things have escaped my lips and only one of them is true. I've always defined "Love", of any kind, from Phileo to Eros to Agape, as based on the concept of self-sacrifice; loving someone else more than you love yourself. To compromise, to share mutual feelings, and to empathize and care. I didn't do any of those things. What I felt was infatuation, lust, envy, and obsession. I hate myself for it everyday.

There are many reasons for why this happened, but I can't honestly tell you what they all are. To say I'm a flawed man would be putting it mildly; Lord Byron could write epics from my character alone. I'm lonely and lost; posses poor interpersonal skills and a lot of emotional baggage - I'm very self-centered and socially awkward, extremely impulsive, too emotional, and generally not a likable person. A lot of why I didn't realize everything that was going on before it was too late is because I have the same victim-complex I've hated my family for having. It's all about me. I'm always the victim. That and I posses next to no self-confidence and need constant affirmation and reassurance due to my awful self-image. Yet, I still manage to be arrogant, condescending, and superior. Frankly, I've got this odd meld of an Inferiority/Superiority complex. I'm smarter, stronger, morally superior, and I've suffered more - I'm better. Why am I unhappy? Why do they suceed where I consistently fail? Why do I want want they have? Why do they have what I want? This self of entitlement and my own self-posessed nature have to face the reality that I'm far too weak, immature, and cowardly to match the rest of the world who have gone to rise above the challenge, where I stand in bitter silence.

Why I developed a romantic attatchment to her isn't difficult. I was immediately physically attracted, but at first, I didn't feel any connection. Passionate, driven, eccentric, quirky, fun, interesting, intelligent, outspoken, extroverted; everything I'm not. Stubborn, prejudiced, unrealistic, manipulative, controlling, and very, very arrogant. We had similiar interests, histories, and goals. When I was around her, I could hope. On a mental level, I knew that we were incompatible and that pursuit was foolish. I did it anyway.

My obsession grew overtime, until she was everything I thought about. We spent every day together and spoke almost constantly. Her flaws became more glaring as time went on - mine did not. Not that they weren't apparent, because they were; I was just too blind to notice. She was involved with another guy, her boyfriend. I was just her friendzoned lapdog. She thought she could change him, fix him, and stuck with him through all the crap he put her through. She did the same thing with me, ironically. Eventually she had enough and denied his existence. That's also eerily familiar. There was a point where, in my eyes, we had begun a relationship. Not just mine - everyone else's too. She was still seeing him, though not officially anymore. My sense of betrayal was only exceeded by my lust and my obsession.

I brought this on myself, though. I was persistent, not accepting that she didn't feel for me and I kept pushing until, eventually, she called me out on trying to force her to love me. "Nobody's ever loved you and you want that. You've never loved anyone and you want that." She couldn't give that to me. That's not her fault. Engaging in a very physical relationship, was. Apparently it was so I wouldn't leave her. Would I have, if I had gotten angry enough at her behavior? Maybe. Was that how I wanted to be controlled? No. She had a leash on me and used her body to reel me in. I gladly accepted it. Because, by the end of the relationship, that's all I wanted. To get laid. It's disgusting, but it's a fact. The tunnel vision had set on months before. I loved her. I wanted her. That's all I knew. I had to have her.

Was I totally crass and careless? I like to think I held at least some semblence of decency. She cared about me, too, I think. It wasn't until the end, but she showed genuine guilt about my state of mind and my general lapses in mental and physical health. I wish I still had those papers she'd given me. I don't remember where I put them. It wasn't until it was too late that either of us took responsibility for our actions - sadly, it took me longer than her. When I was dying, she was terrified for me. When I left, she hated me for abandoning her - because maybe the dependency wasn't just on my side. We fought so much and hated each other, but needed each other. Maybe I was projecting, maybe I was blind to what was right in front of my nose.

We have both blame and fault in this scenario. What do I hate myself for? For being too lost in myself, my emotions, my desires, and so utterly overwhelmed by them that I forgot that I cared about her and failed to live up to any of my promises. That I couldn't listen, care, and help her when she needed it. That I was so selfish. That I hurt her. That I manipulated and used her. For that, I hate myself. For that, I am sorry. I left her and stopped caring. I abandoned her. For that, I will never forgive myself.

In the end, I threw her away, to save myself. I like to say I did it to save her, but that was an after-thought; a justification. I was drowning and I knew she was the spark of my insanity. Not her fault, but that's what I had come to associate with her. She's better off without me. I'm better off without emotions. I'm cold, empty, and bitter. From what my sources tell me, she's happy. Isn't that all that matters? It should be. But for some reason, I just don't give a damn.

My behavior, my obsession, my constant emotional outbursts, my growing impulsivity and loss of self-control cost me more than just her. Some of my best friends left, because they refused to put up with what I'd become. What I'd always, secretely, been. Manipulative, lying, selfish, lacking in empathy and reason, and generally taking without care for others. All take and no give.

I read that as BPD obsessive love episodes devolve and decay, they become increasingly physical, until the emotional level is gone. Am I just a disgusting pig of a man who only cared about a walking pair of tits, without regard for her as a person? Is this my excuse for my behavior? Or did my mental illness really damage my thought process, my emotions, and my perspective on reality so badly that I did things I never should and would have done had I been in my right mind? I can still remember how she tastes, but not the color of her eyes. I remember all the nights where she'd just stick in her hand in my pants and screw with me, only to leave me high and dry, but not what caused one of our biggest arguments. I can't remember. Do I even care?

When I first came to these revelations, I had an anxiety attack and couldn't sleep. Not for days, until I told someone what I'd come to see, was the weight of a thousand suns lifted off my shoulders. Frankly, I barely care anymore. I want to care. I should care. That was always who I was; the one who cared, probably too much. Now I don't give a damn about someone who should have been treated like an angel. She wasn't perfect, but neither am I. I should have payed attention to my mind, and now it's too late. I'm disgusted and ashamed of myself. The worst part is that I haven't changed that much; I'm just self-aware. I don't care or think about what she's doing now - just if she'll forgive me, so this guilt will be gone. Why am I losing my ability to empathize?

If I apologized, would she even want to listen? Would she just get angry, like the last two times we spoke? I abandoned her. She has a right to be angry at me. I hurt her unspeakably. She hurt me, too; but does that even matter? Would she ever be able to forgive me? ...am I beyond redemption? Does this make me a monster? Have I somehow unwittingly become the kind of evil person I've hated my whole life? He who fights monsters must take care, lest he, himself, become a monster. Do I just keep doing what I have? Do I just try and keep my one last promise? Leave her alone and let her live her own live. She doesn't need me bothering her anymore. That seems to be the only choice.

I did my best to just list facts and not fly off the handle. Maybe it sounds a little clinical, but that's the only way I can deal with it without bursting into tears. Sometimes I think swallowing a bullet would be the rightest thing I could ever do. Like I was doing the world a favor. Somehow, people still care about me and claim to need me. I've hurt them enough; so, no seppeku for me. I'll just live dishonored and disgraced. I'm young. Eighteen years old. Maybe this is just silly, petty, and childish. But it means something to me.

Somehow, when I was on the doorstep of death and struggling to come to terms with my own mortality, when I was in so much pain I couldn't see straight, when my father abandoned me, when my mothers family disowned me, when my life was falling apart at the seams, when it seemed like the universe itself was punishing me, all I cared about was her. I needed her. She has been all I've thought about for almost two years. Somehow, despite all the other, far more pressing, ******** in my life - she's remained the most important to me. Priorities: I have them.

I'm angry at the world and on the verge of another breakdown. I ruined my own life and lost everything. I did my homework. Obsessive Love traits on a Borderline fool. From what I understand, I'm not the only one who makes an *** out of himself for what he thinks is love. So, please, share your comments, personal anecdotes, and whatever else you feel necissary. I'd like to hear it.

But, I want to ask you all something, before I finish this post. At what point does my mental illness begin and I end? How much of this is because I'm just a terrible human being and how much of this is because I'm sick? My father told me I was a coward and a loser who needed to man up and learn how to cope. At the time I thought he was just a jackass, but maybe he was right.

[powertools321]

Your dad is wrong, you have a mental illness and it is BPD. This truly is a illness of the brain, it causes the amygdala of the brain to be overreactive, thus causing the rapid and intense emotions, and the pre-frontal cortex to be under active. This part of the brain is the reasoning center that for someone without BPD would allow them to rationalize their feelings. You are not a monster or any of the hundred negative things you call yourself either, you have BPD and one thing we do is hate ourselves. For some reason we give ourselves permission to say things to ourselves we would never let anyone else say to us, why we do that I'm not sure. From your writing it is obvious to me that you are a intelligent young man who has much to offer the world. This disease sucks to put it mildly, and I'm sorry that you have it and that it is causing you so much grief. As far as your question on where does the illness begin and you end, unfortunately you are looking for a black and white answer and there isn't one. You are always there and so is the illness in varying degrees. As far as your ex-friend forgiving you, I'm sure if she read this post she would. You are beating yourself up pretty good and should just try to give yourself a break.
I'm really sorry for the pain that you are going thru and I can relate to a lot of what you have written. I too have been there and done that, and since then moved on (even though it doesn't seem possible). If you haven't done DBT therapy I would STRONGLY recommend it for you, as I feel it would help greatly.
Please don't continue to beat yourself up over the past, you can't change it, only learn from it. Focus on the moment, it is the only thing you have control over. Don't worry about the future, it's not here yet. Live in the moment.

As powertools says, you are not a monster. You don't sound like a terrible human being to me either. Monsters don't care who they hurt; you care deeply.

Many years ago I made a fool of myself, ruined two relationships, and hurt men I supposedly loved because I couldn't see past my own fears and dependence, so no, you are not the only one to feel this pain and remorse. But at the time, I refused to acknowledge that I was ill and I repressed all emotions having to do with my failures, until decades later they flew up and hit me in the face like a stepped-on rake. Far from being cowardly, you are confronting BPD now and experiencing the pain of your loss in its due time, working through what you and your friend did and didn't do in the relationship, and that takes courage. Please don't use your intellect as an instrument of self-torture. It appears to me that you have what it takes to make it through this.

[Scorpio Eyes]

Hey there, friends. It's nice to see you two being the first to respond. Though, I'm somehow not surprised; in a good way.

Powertools: This isn't just a chemical and personality issue? My amygdala and pre-frontal cortex are, for lack of a more graceful term, broken? Yeah, I'm mentally ill and a lot of my self-hatred is unwarranted. Rome wasn't built in a day; just burned in a night. I'm working on things and I don't think I'll rise from the ashes of my autophobia with just a few kind words. I appreciate it, but this is going to take time. I am intelligent and I did have a lot to offer. What truly pisses me off is that I lost hope in being able to live up to my potential. That's something I'm working on, too. Sometimes I don't even see myself polarizing things to black and white. There's no middleground for me; all or nothing, no matter what. If that's what you say, I'll try to accept that.

If she read this point, where, once again, I've shared our personal information with random strangers, insulted and cast blame upon her, and said very cruel and bitter things. Maybe I'm paranoid, maybe I've learned from experience, maybe I'm depressed, maybe I'm just a glutton for punishment, but I don't think she's approve of this. The last thing she said to me was "I don't hate you, you're just an idiot." Maybe you're right. I've been trying not to punish myself as much as I do, but it's just so ingrained in my nature. It's just hard.

If you don't mind, I'd like to hear your story. My first DBT appointment was yesterday; again on Tuesday - after my job interview. The moment. "Concentrate on the living force" as Jedi Liam Neeson once said. My anxieties make this difficult, but I'll try.

Longleaf: I really wish I could believe that. At least I'm not the only one who's made these mistakes; which, honestly, seems like a very callous thing to say. It's nice to be understood, but not so much aware that others have suffered as I have. How in God's name did you last decades with this? I can barely last a few months. That just seems unreal. I can only imagine how much pain you've had to go through... Maybe it's just been about never since I've gotten used to positive affirmation, but I just don't understand how you think I'm courageous. I ran away from all my problems and ended up getting more - which I ran away from. Maybe I'm just looking for someone to help build up what I can't see about myself, but I just need this. That's one of the things I've always hated: I'm intelligent, too much so. I can see all the flaws in someone as smart as I'm suppose to be that's driven by emotion.

I barely managed to nab three more hours of sleep last night. Going out with my "friends" in a little bit, so I'm going to put up a fake smile and try and get my mind off things. I put quotes on that because I've been too afraid to commit myself to this group. They're wonderful; I'm the one who's not a very good friend. It's not that I don't care about them, I do. I just don't know how much to put into this. Everything seems like too much. God damn it, I just need someone to hold me. Is that so ****ing wrong? I'm a gigantic ball of self-hatred and misery; why is a ****ing hug so much to ask for?

Not to make this about me (always a great temptation, that) but very briefly: I didn't last decades with the pain. I've only lived with it for the last eight months or so. At the time, my mind pre-empted it without my conscious volition; I went about my business, but at an enormous hidden cost. I didn't grieve and was numb about the whole thing until it suddenly sprang on me thirty years later. I knew roughly what BPD was but had no idea that I'd lived a lifetime with it until I started researching. Maybe there's a kind of unconscious courage in your mind's allowing you to feel your emotions in a timely fashion; that may sound like the cold comfort of all time, but you are getting help, you're here talking about it, and that is so much braver than burying it.

[powertools321]

Originally Posted by Scorpio Eyes

Hey there, friends. It's nice to see you two being the first to respond. Though, I'm somehow not surprised; in a good way.

Powertools: This isn't just a chemical and personality issue? My amygdala and pre-frontal cortex are, for lack of a more graceful term, broken? Yeah, I'm mentally ill and a lot of my self-hatred is unwarranted. Rome wasn't built in a day; just burned in a night. I'm working on things and I don't think I'll rise from the ashes of my autophobia with just a few kind words. I appreciate it, but this is going to take time. I am intelligent and I did have a lot to offer. What truly pisses me off is that I lost hope in being able to live up to my potential. That's something I'm working on, too. Sometimes I don't even see myself polarizing things to black and white. There's no middleground for me; all or nothing, no matter what. If that's what you say, I'll try to accept that.

Yes, you are right all of our brains are broken if you want to put it that way. I'm not going to tell you that the road ahead of you will be easy or fast, it won't it will have times of good progress with periods of setbacks. You still have a lot to offer, it's just when you are in the dumps it can be next to impossible to remember that with all the pain you are dealing with. You don't see yourself polarizing, don't feel bad, I'm just starting to catch myself once in a great while, and this is with someone who is 42yrs. old and has been involved with DBT for over four years. BPD sucks and I feel anybody dealing with it is stronger than the average person. I mean really who else could deal with this s%^t. You have a long road ahead of you but you can do it, it's just going to take time.

[Scorpio Eyes]

Leaf: I get that temptation. It pisses me off. Did it happen the same way it did with me? Were you just suppressing it until one day it hit you like a **** ton of bricks? Why did it take you so long? Does that mean there are things I can't remember? I'm scared. How are you handling this?

Power: If we want to be a bit more tactful, maybe "malfunctioning" or "temporarily out of service" would be more... gentle terms. Is anything in life worth having easy? "Long is the way, and hard, that out of Hell leads up to light." So you're saying I still have a future, I just hate myself too much to realize how to make it so? You're forty two and I'm less than three weeks away from nineteen. I just started DBT and I've been seeing therapists all year and you've been on it for four. Why the Hell is this happening to us? Why at the beginning of my adult life and in the prime of yours?! I crack under the pressure, friend. I almost died because my body quit from the sheer stress of everything. I spent two months in a post-traumatic catotonic state because I couldn't handle the petty ******** in my life. I feel so weak, powerless, and pathetic. When I look at my problems, they don't seem real to me. Nothing does. I sound like a boy - a child, unable to comprehend the world doesn't revolve around him - unable to see the scope of reality and the pitiful lack of extent to his problems.

I'm furious at myself. I feel like I'm not a person. I want to hold her, I want to cry. I want to go back and change things. I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I! Damn it, that word is said far too ****ing often. I don't want to spend every night, tossing and turning, unable to sleep, half of my bed empty, waking up to nothing and no one, I don't want to be alone. I've been alone my whole life. Even when I thought I had people, I didn't. Now my composure's all but out the window. God damn it, my arthritis and fibromyalgia are flaring up because of the stress. All of my problems and crazy decisions stem from not wanting to be alone...

[powertools321]

Scorpio eyes you have the great advantage of not having these habits as ingrained in you as I do. With the start of DBT you will learn how to change these self destructive habits that make our lives so intolerable. Why us, I don't know, I still struggle with acceptance that I will have this for the rest of my life. Yes I'm saying there is light at the end of the tunnel, check out the book "Sometimes I act crazy" it is written by a woman with BPD who is now living a great life. It's hard but we can do it.

Originally Posted by Scorpio Eyes

Leaf: I get that temptation. It pisses me off. Did it happen the same way it did with me? Were you just suppressing it until one day it hit you like a **** ton of bricks? Why did it take you so long? Does that mean there are things I can't remember? I'm scared. How are you handling this?

As to why it took me so long, I have no idea-- as I said, it wasn't a conscious process. I suppose my mind was trying to protect itself, but it did me no favors-- the feelings of abandonment and loss were just paved over, not addressed or neutralized, and the pavement finally cracked. Memory gaps are very common in BPD; there may or may not be things you can't remember. This could be something to explore with your T. How am I handling things? Not very well yet, but though I'm only at the beginning of the process, I can see that the DBT tools offer real promise. I've had some (spotty) success with short-circuiting lifelong knee-jerk reactions, and as powertools said, you haven't had that long to build up entrenched behaviors. There is hope!

[NishQuiche92]

Wow thanks for sharing. I had never heard of obsessive love as a condition before but it makes me reflect on my own relationships. I always thought it was just something that happened or didn't happen but this really enlightens things.

[Scorpio Eyes]

Powertools: I pray to God you're right.
Longleaf: I'm exhausted, so there's not much I can add to this. Just... thank you.
NishQuiche: Well, I'm always glad to help.

Something that dawned on me earlier today... I read it somewhere, but: if it's true that people with BPD go chameleon around people, to make up for the parts of their identity they lack... that would explain a lot. Whenever I go back to my mother and her family, I become absolutely furious for no reason. I'm bitter, hateful, and resentful. I could be just fine until I see them. When I was with my father... well... you read the long rant. My Dad's a piece of ****. He treats women like **** and I'm glad I've got nothing to do with him anymore. I don't want to be like that. Other than a general fear I've got no empathy and care only about myself, I'm trying to work through these things. What does it mean if I never actually cared about her?

Originally Posted by Scorpio Eyes

Something that dawned on me earlier today... I read it somewhere, but: if it's true that people with BPD go chameleon around people, to make up for the parts of their identity they lack... that would explain a lot. Whenever I go back to my mother and her family, I become absolutely furious for no reason. I'm bitter, hateful, and resentful. I could be just fine until I see them. When I was with my father... well... you read the long rant. My Dad's a piece of ****. He treats women like **** and I'm glad I've got nothing to do with him anymore. I don't want to be like that. Other than a general fear I've got no empathy and care only about myself, I'm trying to work through these things. What does it mean if I never actually cared about her?

Scorpio,
I would recommend reading some of the other threads in this forum; a number of them discuss this. I can't comment on this particular subject; it hits home too much.