Wasn’t Loved

He’s been so intentionally callous. Every body who knows us says he’s brainwashed. All I can do is pray and stay away. I’m not sorry for enforcing my boundaries even if my son hates me now. That means he really never loved me in the first place or he would have been kind.

I keep thinking this is about a difference in religion, and that your son did not honor the religion he was raised in at his wedding. I can see how this is an affront.

OTOH, in some religions, the faith is passed on through the mother, because obviously in olden times that was the only parent one could be certain of.

So if that is what the young couple professed at their wedding, well, i think thats what it says in the wedding song - its not ABOUT the parents of the couple, its about the new couple.

Full disclosure - that i did not have guts to say what i truly believed at my church wedding. I lied, lied, lied. I agreed to whatever my parents and his parents and the priests said. And it was over in a couple of years. Looking back (even that minute), i wish i had had the guts to stand up for myself. Also, my brother and his wife did not attend my wedding, making me look even MORE like a "fallen woman" than i already was! My FIL was furious. My parents felt my brother was right. I dont have a relationship with my brother. He just wants to be the boss of me. Not gonna happen.

My advice is - at this point, see a family therapist to sort this out. No "demanding" apologies from anybody. Decide if you want to get some family wedding pictures taken, and what the ongoing relationship will be. But enough fighting about the wedding and who's the boss of who.

What "boundary" did you enforce? You dont have to answer, but i think you might be using the word wrong. Do you mean he denied your request that he do something you wanted him to do?

There is a conflicting religious difference in this situation. However, that was not what the fallout was about. We accepted each other. It was agreed there would be some slight honor that we requested in our tradition...but I’m sure that must have been a lie.

No, this was a series of exclusions, hurts, slights, outright meanness from the bride to alienate him from his family, mainly his parents. It’s just what I’m describing, honestly. There is one more outrageous component, but I don’t want to say due to anonymity— yes, it’s so over the top it could actually identify me.

The boundary I enforced is that I refused to stand there and allow them to pour the pig’s blood on my head like in Carrie.

Yes, he denied my request to not do that...so we didn’t go. Boundaries for everybody! Nobody’s the boss of anybody. Nobody has to ever speak to each other again. I wish them much luck.

I dont deserve such histrionics. Neither does your son. Neither does anyone who has attended to you all this time.

What histrionics? I’m totally serious.

Is it possible to do a sort of apology that is like "I am truly sorry we couldnt be there. We would have loved to celebrate this occasion with you. But we also felt very hurt and disrespected and felt like going would only make matters worse. We would like to resolve these feelings and situation. Our intent in not going was not to hurt you. It was a choice we felt we had to make due to the situation."

Without knowing more specifics obviously I've made this a little vague.

I mean, you could also say "we are sorry that we had to make this choice. In a million years it's not what we would have wanted. And you know why we had to make this choice, as xyz were very important to us and you and wife's name chose to disregard that request. We would very much like to discuss it more and find a resolution so we can be a loving, healthy family and are leaving the door open to that discussion at any time."

This had nothing to do with you. As long as you were outside of the magical gates, the magic didnt affect you. Im serious.

This has nothing to do with magic, and all to do with control. Your son went from your control to her control. What else could he do? My brother TOOK OUR MOTHER to buy his (third) wife's engagement ring. I KNOW what this kind of control looks like.

Dont try to blow smoke up my skirt. There are a lot of people here ready willing and able to help you. Instead you just insult us.

This is exactly what we did say, again and again. What he wants us to say is that we were wrong for feeling what we did, had no right to feeling what we did, feel dreadfully sorry that we didn’t (he even demanded we don’t say “couldn’t”) go to the wedding.

Now, I would even say what I don’t mean, if I thought it would make peace. However, I feel that they do not want peace and all these things done to drive a wedge were intentional to achieve this result.

Una— I didn’t mean to offend you in any way and don’t really understand what you are talking about. I think I triggered you in some way. If my imagery of the pigs blood or the lynching was too dramatic, my apologies. It felt on this kind of level to me and my husband.

You didnt trigger me.

It sounds like the song Cat's in the Cradle. Your son is offering you the same kind of conditional love his parents offer him.

Feelings arent facts, remember? Thats what it FELT like to you guys. Okay.

I dont understand why he is standing on your neck now? What else does he want? He asked for something, you said no. You asked for something, he said no. Sounds even to me! Neither of you can go back in time. My parents never apologized to me, and i never much apologized to them. I did what i had to do. Of course, my family is not the ideal standard here!

Thats why i think family counseling. What is the goal here? Sunday brunch once a month until the grandkids come? Then babysitting?

I would love to all go to counseling to try to work this out. We want to occasionally hear how he is, maybe occasionally have a visit. That’s all we ever expected from a married son. He wants nothing to do with us and ghosts our texts or calls. His attitude is hateful. He wants us to demean ourselves and ‘learn our lesson’ (as he says). It’s really weird. I feel it is really more ways to keep us far from his life because his wife wants it that way.

At this point, we get it, we’re accepting of that. We’re just really sad and mourning the loss of our beloved son. We are staying hopeful that some day he will change his tune.

I need to say this. I’m feeling a little of animosity in some replies towards how the OP proceeded in relation to her son. Correct me of I’m wrong.

She stated that she needed support and not being criticised for the decision she had to take. It’s not easy to stand up at your boundaries with a son or a daughter but there are moments that you as a mother, a father have to make painful decisions for their own principles. Principles are part of what we are. And also there’s another strong motive that is to avoid a bigger damage for all.
Again I don’t know the details but we need to consider both parties.

If you mean me, i just wasnt up for the drama, and i wasnt the only one saying i needed more specifics in order to help.

Im speaking from the vantage point of now having very little contact with the next generation due to similar circumstances - im hoping to help tisha not have to experience that.

I was the biggest right-fighter, as dr phil calls us. Well, you can be right, or you can be alone. Sometimes the other person doesnt give you much wiggle room, and thats when you have to outsmart them if you can. Because they are fighting dirty (i dont mean tisha, i mean like her DIL is fighting dirty. So being right doesnt count for much. And being supported in being right can ultimately be destructive? Thats why i was trying to focus on goals. Maybe i was overstepping. Thanks for your thoughts. But not animosity! I luvs my tisha!).

Oh man, not just speaking on this topic, but wow, there's a lot of truth there. A lot of times we can validate that someone is "right" or how they feel is "right" until the cows come home, but it doesn't help their situation at all. It doesn't make them any less "right" but it sure doesn't help them be any more happy.

That's a mind blowing statement right there. Thanks, Una.

It’s not about who is right. It’s about giving the opportunity for an approach. In a conflict 99.9 per cent of times, there are two parties and both with their own reason and part of their truth but when one of these parties only offer to the other a “take in” or “take in” there’s not enough maturity to look for an approach. At least, not now.

Again I don’t know the details. Maybe you know more but I don’t need to know the detail because it’s not a matter of judging who is and who is not right.

I love this saying: Don’t judge me until you walk in my shoes.
That also contains a lot of truth not just in this particular context but many more.

That's what we are trying to say. Not sure why you think anyone is saying anything differently? It doesnt matter who is right. Do they want a relationship and to be a family?

It can be extra hard when you leave something out (because you have to) that may change the way different people are responding.

True. And it does sound like it was something bad.

And Tisha has already apologized, so what more can they do? It's just sad, and I'm sure it hurts a lot.

I apologise especially to the O.P for driving her thread off-topic.

Azul, you bring up a good point about only hearing one side of the story and only hearing as much as the OP discloses. I wonder about what a therapist thinks, as they are the only one hearing the client’s side. Here, we have a variety of people with different takes, which I find really helpful.

Seesaw; you put the simple truth to the issue. Do they want to be a family? I think the answer is and always was ‘no’ on her part. She’d tolerate us if we bowed to her and showered her with whatever she wanted. But she sure doesn’t want us as-is (as Fuzzy says). And we’re just not the doormat types. Also, we weren’t trying to control her. We accepted her as-is. But, we wouldn’t be talked down to and mistreated.

Una- love you too!

Our son never had any of these traits before he got with her. Now he acts exactly like her.

I am so surprised we raised a son who had a character that drastically changed from what he was to what she wants him to be. I struggle with ‘identity’ issues related to borderline traits. But, I think I have quite a strong personality and am unmistakable myself in certain things. What’s up with his personality? Hmmmmm. I hope I can find a way to get him into therapy. That would be great for him.

Nope, he isn't going to consider ANY kind of therapy unless he recognizes something is actually wrong. He isn't going to let YOU get him to do anything. This is a very hard reality that parents go through when their children are adults.

I agree. If I would try to be included in his life in any way now he(she) wouldn’t allow it. That was their goal from the start. Exclusion, and not inclusion. And it’s not at all like I was a clingy, controlling mother at all.

But maybe if his brother suggests therapy he’ll consider it.