[madisgram]

NOT SURE WHERE TO POST..i also put it in addictions. i really need input!!!
ok many of you know about my alcoholic/drug addict friend in pa. she has lost her driver's license for 2 years due to hit and run while drunk. she has been going out during the day, leaves children unattended during day to do this, and night to get booze by driving- per her husband. yesterday i called her and she was very drunk. husband at work. two of her small children were home, ages 3 and 5. while talking with her, i suggested she contact her psychiatrist, she put down the phone, went to sleep it off and left the 2 children unattended. i finally hung up. husband found her asleep when he came home.

question-should i report this to child protective services? i am torn about this but fear for the safety of her two young ones.
i have given up on helping her, i am in recovery. there's nothing more i can do and i refuse to have anything else to do with her. it's on her. am i just wanting to get back at her for screwing up again for the umteenth time or overreacting when it's not my business. i have to admit i am MAD.
question-should i stay out of this altogether and just let her husband do whatever he thinks best for his family including her?

i am so torn about all this. upset, frustrated, mad, not sure if my emotional response to this is meddling and need to let go of this whole thing.
i called the child neglect hotline and sat on hold forever.
your input is welcomed more than i can express..

[Perna]

If you are in California and she is in Pennsylvania, I would just get out of it altogether because I'd be afraid I didn't understand the whole family dynamic/scope of any problem from just phone contact. I don't know how illegal it is for someone to sleep in their own home at any time, even with young children; one does it at night? And drinking at home is not illegal either. Many parents put their children down in front of TVs and do their own thing (clean house, work at home, etc.). Very hard to prove "neglect" (if her husband woke her when he got home, maybe the kids are allowed to wake her if they want something).

Maybe call and speak to her husband and tell him you are tempted to call and report and tell him you don't feel he is doing anything to ensure his children's welfare, see what he replies to that?

I would report her to someone for the sake of the children they need to be looked after not ignored/neglected/left to fend for themselves at that young age. Its not right.

Something bad could happen to the children and you would never forgive yourself. They cant phone and report her themselves they need an adult to do so and if a member of the family cant see then and you can then great !

Do the reporting....

You may/will lose a friend but would of helped two young children.

[lynn P.]

I'm sorry this has you upset and I would be worried too ((madisgram)). Are you on good terms with her husband to talk to him?? Did she tell you she did this - how do you know they were left unattended? If you can't let her husband know and hope he'll do something, then yes I think you should call child services. It's dangerous for kids 3 and 5 to be left unattended - it's not right to turn away and pretend it's not happening. I understand it's very hard to do to a friend.

Just make sure this isn't a one time incident and you're sure of the facts. If there's an easier way to ensure the kids safety then try those first. You also have to take care of yourself and know when to step back. It's a hard judgment call but I hope someone cares about these kids.

[(JD)]

There are several ways to go on this, but I think for your own sake, you need to do something.

I see her telling you as a sign of a cry for help. Of course, we can't be sure what kind of help she thinks she needs. I think you've already decided it's worth your friendship for the sake and safety of the children, if it should go awry. Be very careful how you word things, you never know when someone will turn on you, legally.

Speak to the husband. Don't put anything in writing? He may not know just what to do, and may need a gentle (or stronger) nudge to do the right thing.

Have alternatives/options ideas for the husband as he might be saying there isn't anything he can do (cost in money, time, frustration.)

Does your friend have a therapist? Can you help her find one and hold her to the task of reporting back to you about her first session?

Can you locate an AA in her area for her? It's impossible to get through to a drunk when they are drunk. THIS you could put into writing, all the options and your concerns.

You might also get her agreement for you to contact a local church group, for instance, on her behalf, and give out her phone number etc.

Do you have knowledge of any other family, her folks, for instance? Calling them might enable them to take better care of watching for the safety of the children.

Yes, contacting the local authorities is a viable solution, and one you must do if nobody in the household corrects the situation. But that will not only end your friendship, but will wreak havoc on the parents for the supposed safety of the children. Unfortunately, removing children from a home for their safety can put them in other dangers. It's a tragedy, for sure. At least they are now with people who love them, but just don't know how to take care of them--or even themselves.

Never underestimate the power of prayer.

You're a good friend for caring. Take good self care of yourself and realize your own boundaries and needs.

[E1234567]

Child protective services won't take them away just because you called. They will just have a look for themselves and determine if something needs to be done - which may be nothing, may be parenting classes, may be a warning - lots of possibilities.

Although on rare occasion child protective services may overstep their bounds, mostly they don't want to take children away unless there is no other option. The good caseworkers know that the best place for the child is usually with the parent, though sometimes the parent may need help being a good parent. Even with the caseworkers who do shoddy jobs, if there isn't a grandparent sitting right there, if they take the kids away, that caseworker now has to find a place to put the kids, and whether or not there is a grandparent there, they have to go in front of a judge and explain why they took the kids away, and risk going to jail if they didn't do everything by the book. It's at least as common that a complaint will get ignored, or not gotten around to, as it is to have an overzealous caseworker.

You already said that you called and sat on hold forever. If you are really concerned for the children, you will keep sitting on hold until someone gets to your call (don't bother on weekends or holidays - you didn't call on Martin Luther King Day, did you?). If you are just meddling, a couple of hours on hold might not seem worth it.

I can't imagine why you would want to get back at her for screwing up for the umpteenth time. It is herself that she is hurting the most.

Calm down first. The only way that you can see what is truly in your heart is if you look at your motives when you are in a good and clear state of mind. You probably can't tell from where you are whether the 5 year old is able to watch the 3 year old while Mom is asleep (some are mature enough, some are not - and it also depends on the 3 year old) though if the parents are dependent on the 5 year old too much and too often, it is not good for the 5 year old. Obviously leaving a 3 year old and a 5 year old alone while she goes to the store is a bad idea. Even if it's a short trip, things can happen fast - and what if she gets in an accident or something else happens while she's out? The short trip could turn into a long ordeal.

This sounds callous, but the last thing that I would worry about is her friendship. If one of her children dies, she will blame you for not stepping in at this point. The tip to child protective services is supposed to be anonymous, so you may have nothing to worry about there anyway. If you call, just be very clear about what you do know and what you don't know, and how and why. I'm sure the professionals have been trained in how to sort out the facts from unwarranted concerns, starting right from the telephone interview with you.

You have a tough decision, and I'm sorry that you are in that position. If everything is as you have presented and emotions did not blow the situation out of proportion, I vote that you call child protective services and trust that they will do the right thing.

[madisgram]

Originally Posted by (JD)

There are several ways to go on this, but I think for your own sake, you need to do something.

I see her telling you as a sign of a cry for help. she has thought even in the recent past that i am the "cure". i told her i am not. it's up to her and God.Of course, we can't be sure what kind of help she thinks she needs. I think you've already decided it's worth your friendship for the sake and safety of the children, if it should go awry. Be very careful how you word things, you never know when someone will turn on you, legally.good advice, thanks.

Speak to the husband. Don't put anything in writing? He may not know just what to do, and may need a gentle (or stronger) nudge to do the right thing.he's 16 years clean and sober but has not done anything but try to keep children from being so upset when she's stumbling drunk.

Have alternatives/options ideas for the husband as he might be saying there isn't anything he can do (cost in money, time, frustration.)his solution when he discovers her drunk is to not go to work til she sobers up. i know he loves her but he is enabling her in a different way. they have 7 children still at home-ages 16 to 3.

Does your friend have a therapist? when i visited at xmas i got her to see a psychiatrist, diagniosis-bipolar and alcoholic/drug addict, put her on lithium. know she's not continued her med. Can you help her find one and hold her to the task of reporting back to you about her first session?

Can you locate an AA in her area for her? yes she's gone to AA, knows the "drill".she's tried to get sober for the 16 years i've known her. used to sponsor her when i lived there. It's impossible to get through to a drunk when they are drunk. THIS you could put into writing, all the options and your concerns.

You might also get her agreement for you to contact a local church group, for instance, on her behalf, and give out her phone number etc.saw her priest over xmas re this.

Do you have knowledge of any other family, her folks, for instance? know all of the family, folks included, for 16 years. they've hospitalized her, rehabbed her and absolutely are spent emotionally.Calling them might enable them to take better care of watching for the safety of the children.emailed her mom re this after this recent episode. friend's parents tho/elderly.

Yes, contacting the local authorities is a viable solution, and one you must do if nobody in the household corrects the situation. But that will not only end your friendship, but will wreak havoc on the parents for the supposed safety of the children. wish children to be in the care of their dad not child services and not taken out of the home but father doesn't move on this prob. Unfortunately, removing children from a home for their safety can put them in other dangers. It's a tragedy, for sure. At least they are now with people who love them, but just don't know how to take care of them--or even themselves.

Never underestimate the power of prayer. thanks re this. been praying bout this for 16 years.

You're a good friend for caring. Take good self care of yourself and realize your own boundaries and needs. u're right. i am upset but have accepted the fact that this is over unless she steps up to the plate alone and helps herself. i don't think that will be the outcome. i believe she will die, unfortunately. lost best girl friend many years ago due to this disease and know that is a reality.

yes, jd, i need to step back altogether with this friendship-thanks. i'm so upset. feel helpless but know i can't help her. i've tried. didn't work. she's hell bent for destruction. it's the children i care about now.
sorry for long reply but the situation i've known firsthand. that's why i'm in flux over what to do/not do. child services were involved once re all this. 2 yr.old was found by police walking down busy road unattended. the saga continues...
any response after more facts? maybe i need to let things go altogether but i love those children. torn because of this.

[madisgram]

hi all, thank you, thank you for your replies to my distress. i have decided to let this go. she has family, hubby to make the decision re children and my friend. i am sad to have to detach from all of them but my mental health and well being needs to come first. i can't change the situation. i'll certainly keep them all in my prayers but "how do u stay healthy in an unhealthy relationship?" my T said to me once. i said i dunno. he replied, "distance". wise man he is.
i already feel better now that i've decided what to do.