[Dark_Dreams]

Please please please keep this from getting political. This has absolutely nothing to do with any of that. Please restrict this to feelings about things. If you feel the need to say anything that could be seen as political, I will personally ask that this thread be locked/deleted.

I know many of us remember where we were September 11, 2001. I know for a fact that my life was never the same. From the first second of all that went on, everyone was calling for the death of Bin Laden. It almost seemed like his death would be the answer to everything. However, if you lost someone Sep. 11, his death means nothing. If your life was turned upside down after Sep. 11, his death offers no comfort. If you still live everyday feeling as though there is no safe place, his death does nothing to offer safety.

Everything on TV shows people celebrating his death. I do not celebrate his death. I cannot celebrate the death of any individual regardless of what he or she may have done. What I can say is all of this coverage and celebration just creates more stress for me.

I guess the main reason I wanted to make this thread was to give people a place to talk about how they feel about all of this. I know 10 years later, the pain of Sep. 11 is still raw and this latest event feels to me like the scars have been ripped apart again.

[SoupDragon]

I feel really uncomfortable about this death. Gosh the twin tower thing was so awful, but is it right to celebrate anyone's death. In the words of my 6 year old son (although he was referring to something quite different) - should we not keep giving people chances until they get it right?

[lynn P.]

I first want to make it clear I'm not a fan of Osama but I feel it makes us less human if we celebrate a persons death...even if it's an enemy. In all wars there's propaganda and I encourage you to question what the people have been 'spoon fed' in order to justify war. Don't believe everything you've been told and in a 100 yrs this will read differently. The other side has also suffered countless devastation too and it's paints a different picture when you realize there's an equally suffering side. War's not just one sided. Putting all these deeds on one man's shoulders is naive to say the least - there's more than one player. There is no winner in war - so they'll be no cheering from this corner. There's more than one bully and not just one side. I'm anti war and I won't cheer for any side...that's my opinion.

I am so thankful that for so many families that lost loved ones on 9/11, some closure has come. The man who was ultimately responsible for the death of thousands has been found and has received just punishment.

I am incredibly uncomfortable with people who say he shouldn't have been killed, give him another chance, etc. Would you give Hitler another chance? Justice is served and I feel a peace about that.

[missbelle]

I agree farmergirl.....this is bitter sweet as families of loved ones at 9/11 said. It does not bring back their loved ones but it helps!!!!!

I think he was an evil, horrible man. I'm not celebrating his death, but I do hope the families who lost loved ones on 9/11 do feel some closure.

[Perna]

He was not just responsible for 9/11, he's been the mastermind behind most of the terrorist difficulties in the last 10 years all around the world and 10-20 years before that. I think the conditions in which he was found (multi million dollar building while others are living/dying at his command) are quite telling about how he chose to live/die.

I don't think of it as celebrating his/an individual's death as much as it being the end of a serious problem but I don't watch/read news that looks like it might bother/upset me. I am glad his very serious, hurtful-to-world-peace leadership has been stopped and wait to see what develops next.

[Open Eyes]

I am so glad this thread got started. I am not happy today at all.
I can't turn on the TV and see any celebration. Because I know that it is only a beginning to many more sad faces. I also feel that the death of anyone is never an answer, never really an end. If I look back thru the beginnings of man, well, it was always there and, only continued up to today and will so tomarrow.

When I turn on the Television I can only see the school bus, those terrible memories of such a young child who could not understand what she was seeing.

I can understand what was said here about the pain and sadness on both sides.

I have not talked very much about some of my abuse here. I could talk about it once in a thread about what religion means to you. Even when I think of that, well as a young child, all I could understand was that in a church on a piece of land, I would feel a sense of kindness that I didn't see in other places. I could see smiling faces and I didn't see any angry faces. I could sing and dance in an isle and people would look at me in a kind way. I didn't even know any words though, being that I was only about three. All I could do is babble and sing and rejoice in this kind place. How I seemed to know that it was just for a certain length of time. But at least is existed.

I don't want to see 9/11 when so many hearts were broken. I remember my abusive brother and why he was so. He was different and no one knew what it was. That little boy was spanked, picked on on the bus, and in school and by teachers. He was oppressed in every way. He used grounding methods too. He sucked his thumb all night long, everyone could hear him in the quiet of the night.

No, I can see that someone somewhere is brewing and thinking about lashing out. And, we are only provoking it, feeding an anger. With every strength given to a positive, a negetive will soon follow. It is within science itself.

He was definitely outnumbered in every way. Except for one weaker person. One little girl that saw it building and she knew what that meant.
One little girl that had to run away from all that brew in another child that had to be released somehow. Who always seemed to understand that her fear was not his fault, it was his being misunderstood and how he was treated poorly. How others saw a weakness or something different and they never had compassion only ways of rejection or selfish desire for their own sick sense of control.

Yes, I see it all around, everywhere I look. BUT, I have made a choice. I choose to know that there will always be a negetive force, no matter how it came to be. I simply choose to acknowledge that it is there, but I spend my life with those that try to see the good in life, who search or find a way to live life while others chose to find ways to destroy it, or control it, abuse it oppress others etc. And I have come to know that yes, there is always going to be a negetive, I just choose to find any positive I can and keep it nourished.

NO, IM SORRY, I CANNOT FIND ANY REJOICE IN WHAT I SEE HERE.

BUT, NO MATTER WHAT, I WILL STAND FOR ANYONE WHO SAYS, I NEED HELP, ANYONE ANYWHERE HAS THE RIGHT TO ASK THAT QUESTION.

SO, MY HEART RUNS VERY DEEP AND THAT IS WHAT I LIVE FOR. I KNOW WHAT IT MEANS. THAT PERSON WHO ASKS FOR HELP, DESERVES TO GET IT AND DESERVES TO FIND STRENGTH IN IT AND PASS IT AROUND FOR THE REST OF THEIR LIVES. THEY DESERVE TO DO THAT, THEY DESERVE TO LIVE. THANKS TO THOSE WHO DESIDE TO STAY AND GIVE TO OTHERS. DESPITE THE ONES WHO ONLY WISH TO DESTROY WHAT GOOD THERE IS.

SOMEHOW, IT REMINDS ME THAT THERE IS A PLACE IN THE HEARTS OF SOME HUMANS THAT REACH TO OTHERS. HEARTS THAT CHOOSE TO EXIST, FOR OTHERS JUST LIKE ME. FOR ALL THOSE THAT CHOOSE TO STAY, IF ONLY TO PROVIDE A REASON FOR OTHERS TO FEEL THAT IT IS OK TO BE GOOD. THANK YOU FOR STAYING

Open Eyes

[madisgram]

i've needed help since 9/11. i still feel traumatized by the events that unfolded that day. it wasn't until recently that i could watch the re-runs of that day. i still can't fly. the world, as i knew it, felt evil. ptsd i suppose?
i fear more reprisal from the ppl who followed him. everytime i see a plane flying low i have an anxiety attack. i have fears. fears of the realities of things surrounding this man.
i was absolutely horrified that day. my one son lived in the "dead zone" near the twin towers. i couldn't reach him..phones were jammed. my other son/career military officer as well as his wife-miltary too. i couldn't reach either of the 3 to find out if they were ordered to manhattan, etc...phones were jammed. i spent a day of major concern for them and their safety particularly the son in manhattan.
i mourned for the victims and their families. i still do. my suffering is, i'm sure, miniscule compared to theirs.
i wish that day had never happened. my thoughts watching history unfold was that my grandchildren's lives would never be like mine growing up. so much has changed in america now. my concerns have become a reality...major security at airports, cameras everywhere, new violent events in our world, etc.
i don't relish in what has happened. his death doesn't change things. the damage has already been done and continues.
i pray our world can evolve to a peaceful place. i know that's unrealistic but violence breeds violence. peace is the answer, imho. peace throughout our world. that seems to be unrealistic but i do not understand the forces of evil anywhere. my pdoc and i talked about what happened that day right after it happened. i told him how i felt. he looked at me sincerely and said all the more reason for good ppl in our world to continue to be good ppl. i believe he was right.
i hope my posting this is ok and i'm staying within guidlines.

[venusss]

I don't celebrate death of anybody, even if they were evil. It's rather a time to ponder. and the last 10 years weren't nice. We made many mistakes too,some irreversible, when dealing with the post 9/11 fallout.

laden's death is not gonna change anything. We know too well not to proclaim End of the History. Perpetual peace did not break out. Nothing is changed really...

save the celebration for the day some good happens. Now, let's just look back and ponder.

[missbelle]

No, Bin Ladins death is not a cure all to any terriorism. It will continue as evil continues. However we have effectively put a giant hole in the wall of evil and terrorism. I do celebrate his death. It was what was needed. To have captured him would have been terrible as there would have been so much reprisal by members of his group. His burial at sea according to Muslim tradition was effective and fast.

I am very pleased with what happened and I rejoice as an American. Evil is evil. Note also that I live six miles from D.C. and wish I could have been at the White House last nite to celebrate a victory for America. Am I afraid now as some people have asked....well, no more then usual. I was in Florida when 9/11 happened. My daughter was in D.C. by the pentagon. You must also remember Florida was where the pilots were trained...to fly...to fly only but not to land....

It is time for peace as the Pope said following his news that Bin Laden was dead.

[turquoisesea]

I first want to make it clear I'm not a fan of Osama but I feel it makes us less human if we celebrate a persons death...even if it's an enemy.

I don't celebrate death of anybody, even if they were evil. It's rather a time to ponder. and the last 10 years weren't nice. We made many mistakes too,some irreversible, when dealing with the post 9/11 fallout.

I agree so much with what you two are saying. I think that no matter who someone is or what they have done, they are human, they are closely related to us no matter how far away they were born. And our world created them, and we are part of that world.

I understand and support celebration of war dead - war is a horrible thing but it's part of culture if we like it or not.

But reflection upon how this happened, how another human being could do the things he did, and want the things he wanted is important I think.

((((everyone)))) I know this subject is a tough one for many of us, so hugs all around

[lynn P.]

I understand and support celebration of war dead - war is a horrible thing but it's part of culture if we like it or not.

Thank you for seeing how we feel but this above statement contradicts with your other statement. I don't know if this is typo or you see both sides.

I remember years ago when a U.S. helicopter was shot down in Somalia and the Somalian soldiers/citizens paraded the soldiers body through the village. This was agonizing to watch a dead body disrespected and thinking of the anguish it caused his family seeing the people cheer and mock his body. I firmly believe any dead person should be given a decent burial and not have people celebrating the death. Somewhere...... someone loved these people and I imagine myself in their shoes....feeling their pain.

BTW - Muslims don't believe in burial at sea, only if there's no other choice.

I was told pretty much my whole life how to feel or how not to feel and I will not dictate to another human being what they must feel about an event like this or any other event. Or scold them for what they do.

[AAAAA]

I’m glad you posted this Dark Dreams. I was feeling a bit… underwhelmed when it came on the news. My initial reaction was: So… And… I expected more. There was a Hitler reference earlier. When Hitler was defeated there was an immediate change to Germany and the world. This is all so anti-climatic.

September 11 has changed our lives. I don’t know how the death of Bin Laden changes that in any way shape or form. I don’t know how anyone would feel safer today than they did yesterday. We have been forced to face a reality that prior to 9/11 did not openly exist in this country. The execution of one terrorist does not change my reality. I was aware of terrorism of course, but felt stupidly isolated from it. My children do not have that luxury. Part of Osama’s genius is that he created a system to outlive himself or any single individual. I find that scary as hell.

Although I confess that I would have danced a jig in the streets if this would have happened September 15, 2001 it would have given me a false sense of justice and control. To be honest in my opinion the best thing about this situation in my opinion is that it was the Seals that were the ones responsible for his death. Osama WAS responsible for terrorist attacks on the Navy.

I think it is silly to think any of us could actually feel his death solves anything other than one less evil mastermind in the world.

[love2drum]

I can't turn on the tv either....nothing will change others from taking his place, goodness knows that's already started.....so now what? And will we just be viewed as being as bad as they for enjoying his death? I pray for peace and how I may be a part of that ....

[madisgram]

imho, war breeds war. there are no winners. i believe much of the reaction resembles hitler's death. he was just a person but a person whose agenda was frightening and violent to the wellbeing of our world, imo. re osama and history i do believe the outcome will be the same. there's no way i can comprehend peoples who have such vengence on mankind as a whole. there's no way that justifies their actions toward others of different color, spiritual beliefs, or country.
the death of bin laden is not going to change things in the big picture. but i do believe he was symbolic to myself and others that evil exists. yes i believe evil exists here too but in my previous reply in this thread i stated what my pdoc said too me. to overcome the evils in this world we should set the example of goodness and kindness towards others regardless of other's actions. some have commented on not feeling they should rejoice in anyone's death, including his. i don't rejoice either but taking under consideration that my opinion is just my opinion i am unable to judge others who feel differently.

[Citrine]

I have been disturbed by the `celebrating' of someones death. Yes we all know or believe to know who this person was/what they did/what they may have done but to be so openly joyous to the tip of hysterical....its revolting.

Im sure that there are some families of those damaged by him or his agenda and followers that did not rejoice. I certainly hope so. For the sake of God I do. As others have said this wont bring them back. Ideally it is not good to hold onto bad things, bear grudges forever. This is how hate lives on too IMO.

[lynn P.]

Thank you Citrine and I agree. I hope I can communicate this effectively. Lets pretend this was another person who did bad deeds or I can imagine if God forbid someone killed my loved one. True I wouldn't mourn the death, but I wouldn't feel joy - I would be neutral or solemn.

To not feel joy at his death doesn't hurt any member here, but to those like myself and a few others.....it's horrifying and shocking to witness this. Moments after the announcement there was cheering, halleluya's, dancing chillies and rolling on the floor icons. On the other hand I do empathize with justice and redemption.

I've seen people even forgive a loved ones killer - not that I expect this here...some things are unforgivable. I do agree with citrine, that I bet some loved ones of 911 aren't feeling joy at his death - closure yes. Personally I'm just incapable of feeling joy at any death and this hurt my heart to see celebrating.

Your all far better people than me for I know that when my abuser dies I will throw a party.

[lynn P.]

Originally Posted by Tishie

Your all far better people than me for I know that when my abuser dies I will throw a party.

I see the direction you're coming from Tishie. I'm not saying a person can't feel redemption or justice in a wrong doers death - I'm not one of those Polly Anna forgive all type of person. What I'm trying to say is, it places us in an 'evil' place ourselves and not in a place for healing. I don't think it spiritually enriches us - it set us backwards as human beings. I read an article today about a 911 widow and she wrote how this celebrating just sets us further away from healing - she's feeling somber reflection.

As you probably know Tishie I despise abusers and probably might kill one if it ever happened to my child - that may sound like a contradiction of what I'm trying to get across. I have nothing against justice I just wouldn't do a happy dance after wards. It doesn't help in over all healing and makes us more like the evil person. If you were to celebrate your abusers death, I suspect it would confirm his evil affect on you and ultimately you want to heal from him. I hope this makes sense.

[Caretaker Leo]

Since this is just about our personal feelings...

My husband (a veteran) and I did cheer upon hearing the news. My thoughts were that perhaps this would provide some comfort and closure for the families who lost loved ones over the years from many Al Qaida-driven terrorist attacks.

Bin Laden's death will not stop the terrorists, but perhaps it will slow them down. And maybe during that pause, US intelligence and intelligence groups in other countries will find ways that all of us around the world can help bring more freedoms to the middle east countries that most suffer from this division between cultures and beliefs.

I am aware that there might be backlash as the world watches Americans cheer this death. However, just like what was requested here at the start of this topic - we all need to have the freedom to express our thoughts. As an American, I feel very fortunate to have that right.

[FeelingHopeful]

I think That For alot of people The Horror of 911 still lives on , the sadness, the Scared feelings as welll as anger and a whole host of emotions that we suffered with that terrible day,,, I think its also remembrance of their loved ones,/ When 911 happened THEY celebrated , so i think thats why you saw alot of celebrating last night,I dont want to judge anyone else, I am just glad this evil man is Gone, My hearts go out to all the 911 victums, Justice for them!

[Nammu]

I dislike violence, I didn't have a TV when 9/11 happened and I'm very glad, everywhere I went, encluding work, the TV was on, it showed the horror over and over. I wonder why, why do we need to see this 24 hours a day, watch people jumping, watch people hating? Then later there was the coverage of troops tearing apart the house and the hanging of a man, he was our enamy, I was told. Now a day late in a waiting room a TV on once more tuned to CNN, he is dead...scrolling.....celabrate... he was our enamy.
I really dislike TV's that tell me I should hate, I should see enamies on the face of a deck of cards, I should wrap my place in sran wrap, color coded threats, all of it, it tramitizes me. I do not want violence in my house. I don't want to be told to hate, or to celabrate death. I do not believe humans are at a place were we are able to wisely use the power of life or death. I have many good reasons to hate, but I don't. Insteasd I live my life in fear, I fear humans more than any animal or acts of mother nature. Does learing to hate mean I'll lose my fear? I'd rather live with fear than be a person who can celabrate hate and death of a misguided soul. I have no answers, just confustion on this topic. I'm glad I can watch DVD's without worry of what I might see. I think its sad, to celabrate a loss of life before he could releize his wrongs.

[sarek]

I think all of it, 9/11, bin laden, terrorism, poverty, people having to beg in the streets or dying of starvation are all a reflection on the horribly poor ethical and moral state of the entire human world.

I think its safe to say that not a single person posting in this thread really wants any of these things to be and the same is true for the vast majority of people in this world.

Yet, somehow, this is our reality. And is a moment like this not a perfect time for us to reflect on what the h.e.l.l. we are doing?