[pumpkin121]

Hi. I'm new to the forum. I came here to talk about feelings of guilt I've been having over something terrible I did to my sister a few months ago that I'm having trouble overcoming.

First, I'll give some background. My older sister (10 years older) and I have a very rocky relationship and the rest of my family doesn't get along with her either. She is addicted to pills and alcohol, is verbally and sometimes physically abusive, and hasn't held a job in over 8 years. She's called me a b1tch, dyke, c-word, etc. She harasses my parents and grandparents regularly. She's had multiple arrests for public drunkenness, doctor shopping, receiving stolen property, filing false reports, DUI, etc. Sometimes she leaves me abusive drunken voicemail messages and texts. I can't block her number because Net10 won't allow me to and I really don't want to switch service providers just so she won't bother me anymore.

So anyway, earlier in the year, she sent me some bizarre photos of herself. One was a naked photo of just her body laying on a bed. The other one was her wrapped in a Nazi swastika flag and wearing a Nazi hat but with her breasts and upper body exposed. The third one was her laying naked on her stomach on top of the flag. I've held the same job for about 4 years so I always tell my coworkers about her antics. A few months ago, I was hanging out with 3 coworkers outside of work. The topic of my sister came up, so I showed them the photos to illustrate her absurd behavior and we all laughed. It didn't hit me until recently that what I did was very, very wrong. Just because she sent nude pics to me, that didn't give me the right to show them to anyone else. The whole celebrity nude photo leak with Jennifer Lawrence is what really made me think about it. I'm single right now, but if I had been in a relationship with a man and he sent me nudes, I wouldn't have dared show them to anyone and I would have respect for his privacy. But because I don't respect my sister or even like her, and because she bragged about showing the pics to men in bars, I somehow felt it was ok. But I know now that it is not ok and I feel ashamed. I have since deleted the photos from my phone and vowed to never do something like that again, but I can't get over the guilt and forgive myself. It has been gnawing at me for weeks. How could I have done something so reprehensible? I think this is the absolute worst thing I've ever done to someone. Can anyone help?

[Angelique67]

I've never done exactly that, but I've done things I later recognized were wrong and felt horrible about. But luckily the intensity of my guilt and remorse has tended to fade with the years, or maybe I just do fewer things that I'm ashamed of. In any case, forgive yourself! If you'd had a sense that it was wrong at the time, you wouldn't have done it. So everyone lives and learns. Give yourself some peace. It isn't by far the worst thing anyone has ever done, and it isn't that bad. It was wrong, but in the grand scheme of things, it isn't anything to torture yourself about. Be in peace about it, really.

It seems that your relationship with her has turned to contempt from you and perhaps the rest of the family towards her. You do not view her as a human being worthy of respect and dignity, because she is sick and does not respect herself either. I get it. I have been you and I have also been your sister. How would you like to be treated if you were in the same situation, a good place to base how we treat others. You feel bad already because you feel you've crossed a line, but it was bound to happen and is only a symptom of the truth that she embarrases you and that you despise her. She is better off not having family members do her any favors, and you can only escape your guilt once you come to terms with what you have done and perhaps change for the better or you may end up looking in the mirror and also holding yourself in contempt. Namaste.

[Frankbtl]

Hi pumpkin, welcome to PC!!!
You know it wasn't good that you showed your coworkers the photos, and if you could take it back I'm sure we'd agree that without a doubt you should. Although you can't...........but by doing that it has probably helped you to see your sister in a different way, which is a positive, right??
I mean you've clearly seen the basic respect, human decency, empathy that she deserves regardless of any other circumstances.
And you know you should really credit yourself for recognizing that, because I'm sure there are a lot of people in your position who might never come to that sort of understanding .
So you know, well done!!!
So now...........do you think you could use some of the depth of that insight, and make it work for you/for her???
It does sound like she's really struggling, and of course some of her behaviors may as much be a reflection of addiction (which can be so powerful!!) and the behaviors addiction have driven her to instead of her.
And obviously I don't know what might be possible, where she's at..........but you trying to help/support her could range from anything between looking up programmes that she may gradually come around to considering, to offering her a little help if she needs help with something (not giving her money though!!!), to trying to talk with her a little more, to talking to her more empathetically when you do talk to her.
And even if you can only manage the last then sometimes when things are dark for someone just knowing that someone values them, treats them equally without looking down on them, listens to them, understands/cares can be a big thing.
If she's too angry at everyone or you're at risk of physical abuse then it might all turn out impossible, but at least you're going to know you gave it your best shot and from a position of seeing her in a different way!!!
Perhaps as well check out the addictions forum on here, because there are so many misconceptions spread around about addictions:
Addictions - Forums at Psych Central
And the guilt...........well there's no way of changing what you did so perhaps see it as something that led you to some real enlightenment.........and enlightenment has to be good right?? You have learned a lot from what you did!!!

Alison

[ombrétwilight]

Frank says it well. I think we all agree that it was rather inappropriate to show them to your coworkers but since this cannot be undone, at least you drew a lesson from it which may help to better your relationship with her. It's not easy having to deal with a sister like that and I give you credit for having done so for so long. My mother can behave very embarrassingly (not nudes but tantrums in public at age 45 etc.) and I can sort of understand the revulsion and distaste which can be very confusing/hurting since it's felt towards someone we are supposed to love. The best measure perhaps is to try to see things from her POV and offer some support, or else we can keep our distance and respect her privacy/boundaries but not cause more distress (for both parties) through further contact.

Have you considered seeking her help for addiction? It is possible that she may be suffering from other MH conditions and sometimes it takes a 3rd party to get us the help we need because we simply don't see the issues ourselves.

[pumpkin121]

Thanks, everyone! You're right that I can't take it back but I certainly learned from the experience and my guilt is starting to fade. As for my relationship with my sister, I have avoided speaking to her for some time. I don't text her back or call her because it always ends up in an argument and she is such a toxic person that it causes me stress. It's hard not to be angry at her when she screams at me, falsely accuses my father of pushing her to try to get him arrested, shoves my grandmother and calls her a c-word, punches her boyfriend, and constantly escapes jail time. She's also a virulent racist and anti-semite which makes me dislike her even more. What I'm struggling with is how much of her actions can be attributed to her personal accountability and decisions and how much to her mental illness? What can I hold her accountable for? Because when I treat her with too much empathy, I feel like she thinks I condone her behavior and she can continue to manipulate and abuse people. It's so hard to have empathy for someone so abusive and I feel like it's a bit of a betrayal to those she has abused. She has gone to rehab before for a brief period and did attempt suicide, which caused her to be life-flighted to a hospital 2 hours away. After she recovered, she was transferred to a voluntary drug rehab facility. She wanted someone to pick her up, but our family agreed that no one would so she would be forced stay, but she just ended up meeting a man at the rehab and going on a multi-state drug run with him. My mother is mentally ill too and we know from experience just how hard it can be to involuntarily commit someone to a mental hospital. And even when we did 302 our mother when I was in high school, she was let go after 2 weeks and nothing was accomplished! Thankfully, we involuntarily committed my mother again last year and she stayed for a few months. She's on medication now and is doing much better. And it's amazing how my sister has consistently escaped jail time. I think she's only been jailed for a total of 2 or 3 weeks when you add it all up just from awaiting bail after numerous arrests but she's never actually served time. She's been convicted of doctor shopping, receiving stolen property, disorderly conduct, trespassing, DUI, filing a false report, and shoplifting. I think it's because she's pretty, white, and puts on a good face for the judge. She just had a court date for a DUI and got mandatory AA. She also has another court date on the 29th for a different DUI. But she never learns her lesson. It's like she hasn't matured past a teenager. She feels very entitled and speaks about her arrests as if it's something terrible that just "happened" to her rather than a punishment for her actions.

[ombrétwilight]

Originally Posted by pumpkin121

She's also a virulent racist and anti-semite which makes me dislike her even more. What I'm struggling with is how much of her actions can be attributed to her personal accountability and decisions and how much to her mental illness? What can I hold her accountable for? Because when I treat her with too much empathy, I feel like she thinks I condone her behavior and she can continue to manipulate and abuse people. It's so hard to have empathy for someone so abusive and I feel like it's a bit of a betrayal to those she has abused.

Pumpkin, I get where you're coming from. There is a grey area between the symptoms of MI and simply being a nasty person. I have struggled with this myself in understanding my mother's behaviour (she has never been diagnosed but my old T, friends and other MH professionals have strongly suggested that she is mentally ill) with regards to her physical and emotional abuse. As for the racist part, I've yet to hear of any MI which suddenly causes the sufferer to express a desire to join the KKK so that may just be her own prejudice.

IMO, I would explicitly tell her that I disapprove of her actions but will support her efforts at getting better (if she tries) as her sister who wants the best for her. However, as the saying goes: a leopard never changes its spots and the reality is that some people are simply inherently spiteful. In that case I hope you can have the peace of mind knowing that none of this is your fault and you have done your duty as a concerned family member but the ultimate responsibility still lies with her.

Wishing you the best.

[Frankbtl]

Hi pumpkin, it's sounds like you've gone through some really difficult times with both your mother and your sister, I'm sorry
But with your sister.........people have really got to want to change things, which it's not sounding like your sister is wanting right now?? and even then it can be so much easier said than done to change things.
With the rehabs..........sometimes people have to go through rehab quite a few times for it to start to make a difference and then it can totally depend on the actual rehabs they're going to, some have a much better success rate than others.
And groups like AlAnon...........Narconon can be really helpful, but if your sister isn't interested...........???
Maybe your sister's behaviors/views are a result of MI, people around her, experiences, the way she feels abut herself/her life............maybe a combination of a lot of things??? But ultimately if nothing's getting through to her right now, then you are kind of limited in what you can do for her.
I don't know if your country is one of those where you could write a letter to the court (for before her court date) explaining that you're worried about her and you feel that as part of the processes she should be referred/sent for some help??? She might not thank you for it if she finds out but.............
And perhaps carry on with the "tough love" approach, doesn't mean you can't empathize with her, doesn't mean you can't let her know you'll be there for her when she's committed to getting help.
And you (!!!)..........I know it's got to be hard on you dealing with this, but perhaps limit communication (where you can) to a less stressful level, try to see some of the possible reasons for her behavior, and that some of them she probably isn't going to be able to help right now. Doesn't make them OK, but it might make it easier on you to deal with.
And when you're struggling maybe you could try sharing some of the problems as a family??? Support each other??? Or in the very least make sure that you have some support for yourself.
You could always get some extra support from somewhere like AlAnon too, who also help families.

Alison

[Girn]

I bad I guess. Guilt or guilty?

[SmileHere]

Hi Pumpkin!

Sorry, but I must admit I LOLed when I read what the 'terrible' thing you've done to your sister was. I was expecting much much worse... Though it's good that you learnt out of the experience!

How to deal with a Nazi sister? I have no idea! It must be extremely difficult... Not sure if there are any support groups for family members of Nazi people?? Any anti-racist groups/websites that could help? Al Anon or Nar Anon sound like a good start... If you google 'support for relatives of criminals' there seem to be some websites and groups that could possibly help too? Do your parents and grandparents still give her money or attention, or why does she hang around and harass them so much?

I agree she might be 'self-curing' with drugs and such (could she be bipolar? or just narcissistic? or just 'spoilt'? I don't know...)
'Tough love' might indeed be needed... ((hugz))

But please know that hospitals and being involuntary sectioned isn't always the answer... Well, seems you already know that.. Glad your mum seems to be doing better, just know that meds can sometimes have problematic side-effects too and maybe be on the watch for that.

Sis is going to have to want to change, and I don't know how this can be accomplished? If she has become physically abusive to relatives, can she get a restraining order?
It seems she has liked provocations and getting people upset, so maybe the best reaction is to not allow her that? Don't show her empathy if she might mistake it for 'okaying' her behaviour, you can feel it but not show it and can speak stricter than you mean maybe?
Others have said it well, be there if she wants to change, but protect yourself and help other loved ones maybe if they might need help setting up boundaries with her?